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doomslayer11122

I hate DooM 2's level design.

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Posted (edited)

The only reason I really only ever play DooM 2 is because of how many more wads there are for it. DooM 2's level design is really bad compared to DooM 1/Ultimate DooM. The levels are extremely maze like and empty compared to Ultimate DooM, and I can never find myself trying to beat DooM 2 without using cheats or skipping levels, I just hate the levels that much. 


I feel like i'm the only one that feels like DooM 2 is just Ultimate DooM with way worse level design and some new weapons. Like seriously, I hate the levels so much in DooM 2. Love DooM 2 for the WADs though.

 

Any of you guys feel the same way? I still respect DooM 2, don't get me wrong. I just prefer DooM 1 in basically every way except for WADs.

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I must also confess, that I never really got into the level design of Doom 2. There's just something off about it.

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That Ultimate Doom maps are better designed than Doom 2 maps is certainly a popular opinion. I guess I tend to agree from an objective standpoint, but I still like Doom 2 better, if that makes sense.

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Marcaek said:

lol at those people who call doom 2 mazelike but prefer doom 1, a wad of literal mazes

DooM 2's level design starts getting confusing starting at level 2, DooM 1 gets gradually more maze like, I never needed to look up guides for DooM 1 like i did with DooM 2 when i was younger.

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Doom 1's levels are more consistently good despite slouching occasionally in the gameplay department due in part to the lacking bestiary and weapons.

 

Doom 2's levels are gimmicky and varied with few pockets of excellent, albeit inconsistent, gameplay. They form the basis for earlier WADs but feel like variety for variety's sake.

 

Also, Doom 2's levels aren't mazelike. Doom 2's levels are mostly open and directionless, with haphazard gimmicks strewn about that sometimes shoot down the actual gameplay. Doom 1 has mazelike levels where you figure a route to the end rather than picking a random direction and hoping for the best.

 

 

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I really fail to see how Doom II is more mazelike than the original. I can only think of a handful of directionless levels, and one of those has a literal arrow telling you where to start... Meanwhile Tom Hall's levels basically were flat mazes.

 

Doom II has American McGee levels, and his levels rival Romero's E1 stuff. The SSG and new monsters allow for much more varied gameplay in those levels. Level design is more than lines plotted on a grid and sector properties.

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Posted (edited)

If all of Doom 1 was as good as Episode 1 was, I'd maybe see where people are coming from, but you probably have 9 good levels all together in E2 and E3, and E4 was post-doom 2 plus it only has 3 levels which don't fizzle out after you survive the start. None of the original 3 episodes really have a difficult map so once you're remotely good at the game there's little reason to revisit any of them. Doom 2's more open level design better allows you to tackle challenges from different angles so it's more replayable in that sense.

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Not a big Doom 2 guy level design wise, it's not terrible by any means design, but it's my least favorite in terms of id games

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I'd say Doom 2 up until map 21 Is really great. Map 21 Is a literal joke (Name and all) 22 is ok... 23 Is good for the first 10 seconds with all the barrels. 24 Is Is good despite the catwalk. 25 is ok (Like the Music). 26 Is really good with all the secrets. 27 has a good creepy vibe too It. 28 Is abit rushed. 29 Is a good action map. and 30 didn't age too well.

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Maze-like? Huh? Also, Doom 2 is so much more abstract and thus, the level design feels more engaging (a lot of levels, especially by the underrated Petersen, are very non-linear WITHOUT being maze-like, with the VERY partial exceptions of Maps 13 and 15).

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There always has to be these kinds of threads popping up every now and then...

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I'm not too fond of the "city" maps in Doom 2. Duke Nukem 3D's urban maps blown Doom 2's away. I still find myself playing through Ultimate Doom more often outside of WADs.

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Ultimate Doom was better than Doom 2 in regards to story, level design, theme and music. Doom 2 had the advantage of providing an extended bestiary, the SSG and has provided the community with a limitless supply of awesome usermade content.

 

So as for out of the box games, I'd say I'd prefer Ultimate Doom but the user content for Doom2 has become far superior than the original games content.

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The only Doom 2 map that I have a problem with is "Industrial Zone".  It's really cheap level design when you have this huge wide open area with nowhere to hide and there's hitscan enemies all around you shooting at you from above.  Can't even imagine how that map is done on Nightmare difficulty. 

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i like all arquitecture of doom 1 and 2, i enjoyed so much the maps, my favorite is the level 29

 

but doom 2 no are maze-maps, il semble, but is why the maps are more open

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Breezeep said:

There always has to be these kinds of threads popping up every now and then...

I wonder why

And Doom 2 is NOT mazey in my eyes...in fact, it's pretty straight-forward compared to Doom 1...

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I agree Doom 1 had the best levels. Doom 2 drives me insane.

But i do like the doom 2 wad with Brutal Doom 64.

Play Brutal Doom 64 it's awesome man.

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39 minutes ago, Maser said:

The only Doom 2 map that I have a problem with is "Industrial Zone".  It's really cheap level design when you have this huge wide open area with nowhere to hide and there's hitscan enemies all around you shooting at you from above.  Can't even imagine how that map is done on Nightmare difficulty. 

 

It's actually probably easier than something like map04. AFAIK the early game in doom 2 is the real hurdle for nightmare because of all the zombies. Later maps have more projectile monsters which you can at least have a chance to dodge...

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2 hours ago, doomslayer11122 said:

DooM 2's level design starts getting confusing starting at level 2, DooM 1 gets gradually more maze like, I never needed to look up guides for DooM 1 like i did with DooM 2 when i was younger.

Well, I'm sorry to break it to you, mate, but I personally think you're not that good at the game AT ALL (getting lost on Map02. Honestly...)

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Posted (edited)

We seem to get "Doom 2's level design sucks" threads every few months and rarely does the OP attempt to dissect what is so lacking. 

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5 hours ago, doomslayer11122 said:

The only reason I really only ever play DooM 2 is because of how many more wads there are for it. DooM 2's level design is really bad compared to DooM 1/Ultimate DooM. The levels are extremely maze like and empty compared to Ultimate DooM, and I can never find myself trying to beat DooM 2 without using cheats or skipping levels, I just hate the levels that much. 


I feel like i'm the only one that feels like DooM 2 is just Ultimate DooM with way worse level design and some new weapons. Like seriously, I hate the levels so much in DooM 2. Love DooM 2 for the WADs though.

 

Any of you guys feel the same way? I still respect DooM 2, don't get me wrong. I just prefer DooM 1 in basically every way except for WADs.

Just out of curiosity - when did you play Doom for the first time?

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2 hours ago, Marcaek said:

 

It's actually probably easier than something like map04. AFAIK the early game in doom 2 is the real hurdle for nightmare because of all the zombies. Later maps have more projectile monsters which you can at least have a chance to dodge...

 

I know that there's some newer versions of the original Doom and Doom 2 where Nightmare difficulty has been changed.  From what I remember reading, enemy speed and projectile speed are no longer doubled.  The port I play has the original Nightmare difficulty and let me tell you, dodging enemy projectiles that are 2x speed is not as easy as it sounds. 

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10 minutes ago, GoatLord said:

We seem to get "Doom 2's level design sucks" threads every few months and rarely does the OP attempt to dissect what is so lacking. 

 

I may be new here, but certainly not new to forums in general and while these types of threads kind of come off as just threads meant to stir the pot, they do get good discussions started which I feel are healthy for forums whatever the main topic may be. 

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Is there some current trend to dislike Doom 2's levels, or really just bash Doom 2 as a whole for the sake of it? I may have a preference with some of the levels from Doom 1/Ultimate Doom, but in terms of replay value, Doom 2 definitely delivers more with its base levels, monsters, and the Super Shotgun. And that isn't taking the countless custom levels made for Doom 2 into account.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, doomslayer11122 said:

DooM 2's level design starts getting confusing starting at level 2

At this point I wonder why this topic is getting seriously discussed while this line from the very same person who opened this thread remains almost entirely unchecked... I'm just sayin'.

 

23 minutes ago, Maser said:

The port I play has the original Nightmare difficulty and let me tell you, dodging enemy projectiles that are 2x speed is not as easy as it sounds.

First of, not all projectiles are doubled in speed on NM difficulty: Cyberdemon rockets and rev missiles are just some examples.

 

Secondly, projectiles can be dodged, hitscans can not. Yes projectiles that are twice as fast are harder to evade, that's the point...

 

It's not the maps with loads of imps and cacos that will wreck you on nightmare, it's the early maps with their fuckloads of shitscans that'll ruin your day if you're not quick enough.

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