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CrazyDoomguy

Doom lost popularity?

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Posted (edited)

^What? I don't understand what you mean. Did I say Classic Doom doesn't include new mapsets?

 

↓ OTL  Sorry, my English really sux, so I can't express myself properly, my bad.

Edited by GarrettChan

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What you said is that you want to talk Classic Doom. And with the amount of mapsets and mods that are nowadays released, you can't talk Classic Doom here without bringing up mods/PWAD-mapsets.

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On 7/19/2018 at 11:00 AM, CrazyDoomguy said:

I did one WAD "VeryHard". I know that this WAD havent big popularity because of extreme difficulty.

And you just answered your own question.

You created a megaWAD for hardcore players (devoted maniacs/pro-gamers, whatever), niche, tight community within already niche old Doom community - and you're wondering why the majority, casual players, ignore it?

And that is the global problem. There are too little content for ordinary players to sink teeth into. And without fresh content that can hook new gamers in, Doom - well, doomed to slowly wither and shrink. Just like vinyl records and silent films. Sure, it will be there. As a geek hobby. Because stagnation means death. Without development, without new blood, without young stupid players that doesn't know right from left, there is no future.

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Sure, we could always use more of them, but there's already plenty of easier mapsets for less advanced players to chew through. Even more open up via the usage of difficulty settings, yo

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True. While I occasionally like to play those maps, the main attraction for me has always been the custom content. If it wasn't for that I'd never have come back to the game after it got replaced by more modern ones. Say what you want but the IWAD maps - especially Doom 2 - aren't really that great and were surpassed in quality by user maps even in the earliest years.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, AD_79 said:

there's already plenty of easier mapsets for less advanced players to chew through. Even more open up via the usage of difficulty settings

Problem is - it's not promoted, it's almost unknown. Even worse - people seriously giving such content 1 star for being "too easy". All the while there are mods like "Monsters x2/x4/x10" and other "Less ammo/health" for masochists oh high & mighty Doom Gods. Who saying things like "sure it's slaughter megaWAD, but normal players can beat it on HNTR", while it's clearly not. Because it wasn't even remotely designed for usual gamers. But we're just lowly filthy casuals, we had no voice here, because we're not here to stay, we doomed to "get bored" (as if it's the real reason) and walk away. Because that's what we are - a silent majority. Too busy (or, sadly, lazy, we all mere weak humans) to make an account and voice our opinion.

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The people giving low ratings for "too easy" are justified if they meant it as "the gameplay didn't do anything to interest me". Believe it or not, you can totally make engaging gameplay while still maintaining a low actual threat level. Anyways, I personally don't care much about people complaining for the sake of complaining in their reviews. If they want to think that way, cool whatever who cares really. I'm going to ignore it if the criticism is outright useless to me. If you want more low-difficulty projects, my advice to you is to take matters into your own hands. Release a quality, interesting project to the community the way you want it, and perhaps others will follow. 

 

By the way, I'd suggest you soften your tone. You don't want to be seen as a bitter, negative person who thinks the community should conform to their will, eh? Not exactly the best first impression!

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Posted (edited)
On 7/19/2018 at 7:46 PM, Memfis said:

I think the idea of inventing a different mapping personality is very good. If you've been mapping for a while, everyone already has an established opinion on your works. Those who like what you've made so far will continue following your releases, while others will continue ignoring them. Of course this is not 100% stable and sometimes people rethink stuff, but overall it's much more efficient to simply begin releasing maps under a different name. That way everyone will have to take a fresh look at what you're doing and form an opinion that will be relevant to your current output, not based on what you've been doing five years ago.

 

Really not a fan of this. I think some people currently doing that and I saw a lot of recent maps claimed to be 'first map' which obviously aren't first maps...

About the issue of no getting feedback by CrazyDoomguy and NinjaLiquidator: try to private messages people asking for playtesting/whatever, I'm sure you will get feedbacks

Edited by Paul977 : grammar

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5 hours ago, Spawn said:

doomed to slowly wither and shrink. Just like vinyl records 

 

That's unfortunately not a great comparison: vinyl sales are higher now than they have been at any point in the last 25 years, and sales have seen double digit growth every year for the last decade. 

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Posted (edited)

If doom was falling in popularity, it wouldn't be covered so much on news sites.

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Posted (edited)
On 7/20/2018 at 10:52 AM, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

The keyword in that reference is "suggested."

At no point is it explicitly stated that the Glory Kill mechanic was inspired in part or in whole by Brutal Doom.

Nor it is explicitly stated that the Glory Kill mechanic was inspired by the Doom Comic. There's always a chance that it was completely an original idea. The first mission name of that game also can't cut it; the "Rip and Tear!" name might have been given from the Doom Comic and not from Glory Kill mechanic's inspiration.

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On 7/20/2018 at 7:24 PM, AD_79 said:

The people giving low ratings for "too easy" are justified if they meant it as "the gameplay didn't do anything to interest me". Believe it or not, you can totally make engaging gameplay while still maintaining a low actual threat level. Anyways, I personally don't care much about people complaining for the sake of complaining in their reviews. If they want to think that way, cool whatever who cares really. I'm going to ignore it if the criticism is outright useless to me. If you want more low-difficulty projects, my advice to you is to take matters into your own hands. Release a quality, interesting project to the community the way you want it, and perhaps others will follow. 

 

By the way, I'd suggest you soften your tone. You don't want to be seen as a bitter, negative person who thinks the community should conform to their will, eh? Not exactly the best first impression!

Sorry, but you can't know if they actually mean anything else besides exactly what they write. I mean, if you think it's boring, you usually write "boring". No matter how bad you English is, you know that "boring" and "easy" are not synonyms.

And no, DIY is not a legitimate advice. Actually, it's one of the so-called "universal arguments" (i.e. - not an argument at all, just an easy way to end a conversation), this one also known as "try to do it yourself, then we talk". No. If I think that the local bakery is bad, it's not a good advice to tell me "well, d'oh, then make it yourself".

You totally miss my point, don't you? I am part of community. And quite big part of community.

On 7/21/2018 at 12:18 AM, Bauul said:

 

That's unfortunately not a great comparison: vinyl sales are higher now than they have been at any point in the last 25 years, and sales have seen double digit growth every year for the last decade. 

I like how you picked out that one and silently ignored other. I think you've got the idea anyway.

On 7/21/2018 at 12:41 AM, MrGlide said:

If doom was falling in popularity, it wouldn't be covered so much on news sites.

Classic Doom, not 2016 reboot.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Spawn said:

I am part of community. And quite big part of community.

Big part of community? Who are you?

 

1 hour ago, Spawn said:

 

On 7/20/2018 at 9:18 AM, Bauul said:

 

That's unfortunately not a great comparison: vinyl sales are higher now than they have been at any point in the last 25 years, and sales have seen double digit growth every year for the last decade. 

I like how you picked out that one and silently ignored other. I think you've got the idea anyway.

Bauul was addressing your comparison of Doom to vinyl records, which is a very poor comparison because the two are separate things which exist in different cultural mediums.

 

I also addressed this problem with mapping and difficulty in another thread, and instead of rewriting it, I'll just quote myself.

On 7/29/2018 at 1:41 PM, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

Well, see, the thing about mapping is that a mapper is bringing to the table something that they think is great, so they don't have to pander to anyone in particular save themselves. That's something a lot of people like to ignore.

"If you're going to map, you need to abide by such-and-such arbitrary rules!"

I see this too often to remain silent on it, and as a mapper, I'm obviously biased, but there's one major thing people need to consider:

Mappers do this with their free time. They're not paid to make maps for Doom for the masses. They make a map, they think it's good, so they share it. The only person required to be pleased with the mapper's map is the mapper him/herself.

Obviously, this is at the mapper's discretion, but if the mapper makes something they think is fun and isn't a troll map or otherwise widely accepted as terrible, then what the masses think is irrelevant.

So if you want content that caters directly to you, you'll either have to convince a mapper to gift a map to you or make it yourself, which is where the "DIY argument" comes in. You're free to dislike any maps you want, but comparing Doom mapping to a bakery is stupid because Doom modding is unpaid and done in free time whereas running a business like a bakery is a job that pays.

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DOOM has not lost popularity.  When I got into DOOM, DOOM 3 wasn't quite out and no one I knew even heard of DOOM.  Then after DOOM 4 was released a bunch of friends knew about and liked it.

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