Fallout 76 will not launch on Steam

[MTF Sergeant]

On 8/7/2018 at 8:00 AM, MrGlide said:

Ouch, what if Doom Eternal is next.

.. im afraid.

[Jerry.C]

19 minutes ago, explorix said:

Thankfully I don't really care about videogames anymore, but it's still sad to see what's happening. I'd love to buy games and never be dependent on some launchers.

 

No worries here. I am confident that the industry will eventually run the entire business into the ground if they continue on their chosen path.

While DRM is bad per-se, at least Steam for the most part is relatively unintrusive. But I have no faith whatsoever that all those Greedy Inc's. will be able to develop some competition that doesn't try to f*ck up each computer it's installed on.

 

On a positive note: As long as the Windows Store doesn't become the place to go for games, all is not lost yet. :P

 

 

[Lila Feuer]

Lol hard to have an opinion on the Bethesda Fallout games when all I sampled was 3, but if they wall nu-Doom 2 I will resort to a longplay and whatever Doom Eternal mods come for GZDoom. Trash practice.

[Avoozl]

2 hours ago, Jerry.C said:

While DRM is bad per-se, at least Steam for the most part is relatively unintrusive.

 

 

I disagree, even if it's not the worst kind possible it's still intrusive.

[Reisal]

3 hours ago, Quasar said:

That's going to completely kill my hype for Doom Eternal. No chance in Hell (pun intended, definitely) that I'm installing another shitty client.

 

The last thing is me needing a FOURTH CLIENT on my system and all the lame downsides tempdecal has brought up. No game installation directory choice? Pass.

[explorix]

3 hours ago, Jerry.C said:

 

No worries here. I am confident that the industry will eventually run the entire business into the ground if they continue on their chosen path.

While DRM is bad per-se, at least Steam for the most part is relatively unintrusive. But I have no faith whatsoever that all those Greedy Inc's. will be able to develop some competition that doesn't try to f*ck up each computer it's installed on.

 

On a positive note: As long as the Windows Store doesn't become the place to go for games, all is not lost yet. :P

 

 

But how, when a big part of young men have nothing better to do than play games? Especially given the new kind of games, where you are rewarded with all kinds of stuff (Loot boxes, Micro transactions etc.) for playing? Those games have a really addictive nature and it's no wonder, that playing games for 2-5 hours daily is now considered as an official addiction disorder.

 

Plus the gaming industry is the worlds leading entertainment industry with 300 billions $ worth. It's the most consumed media on earth, so games in their current form and current type of distribution are gonna stick around for a long time I'd say.

 

But I definitely agree on the Windows Store, lol that thing is abysmal.

 

I also think that Quake Champions, which has been mentioned here, is only on Steam, because that game would fail so hard if it was on the Bethesda launcher only. And with still no word on offline play with bots (Jan Paul van Waveren where are you?) and the fact that newbs are gonna get pwned for the first 6 months of playing (a nightmare with the current impatient ADHD/Smartphone generation of players) it's doomed anyways. I'm pretty sure it's gonna fail miserably in September.

 

But to go back to Topic, I wouldn't mind the Bethesda launcher so much, if the new DOOM is gonna have unlimited modding support. That would somewhat make up for it and I'm sure more people would go for it, despite not being on Steam. But I do wonder if ID still thinks it has the "best technology" in the world in terms of game engines (they haven't) and wants to protect it for that reason as with DOOM 16.

 

It's gonna be quite interesting to see what's gonna happen with future Bethesda games. Since I've given up on Quake since Live, I resorted to DOOM. And while DOOM 16 was kinda good, but without Modding or Non-linear levels, I gave that up as well. I wonder if it's just me who can't get used to new games anymore^^

As someone who's been playing all the old ID games in childhood, I think I'm getting too old for this shit lol.

[Jerry.C]

2 minutes ago, explorix said:

But how, when a big part of young men have nothing better to do than play games? Especially given the new kind of games, where you are rewarded with all

kinds of stuff (Loot boxes, Micro transactions etc.) for playing? Those games have a really addictive nature and it's no wonder, that playing games for 2-5 hours

daily is now considered as an official addiction disorder.

 

And once it is officially treated like one, expect some crackdown on those practices you outlined.

 

 

2 minutes ago, explorix said:

 

Plus the gaming industry is the worlds leading entertainment industry with 300 billions $ worth. It's the most consumed media on earth, so games in their current form

and current type of distribution are gonna stick around for a long time I'd say

 

It all depends on how far it goes. All these launchers need to work, after all. And they need to work together. But seeing how they try to hijack the system to enforce their DRM I think that conflicts are inevitable, and ultimately will get a bad reputation. And it may just happen that a platform becomes so toxic that its use alone is a killer criteria.

[explorix]

10 minutes ago, Jerry.C said:

 

And once it is officially treated like one, expect some crackdown on those practices you outlined.

True, I answered my own question ;) But given that ~30 % of the western world still smokes (AU and NZ don't count), we will have some serious troubles ahead. Same with porn addictions... that's so sick.

(Shameless advertising http://www.yourbrainonporn.com for those who are interested in this topic).

 

Well then, Good Luck DOOM Eternal...

[Dragonfly]

I mean, I agree with the angry mob that having it on another launcher is absolute shit, but it's nothing surprising.

Steam
GOG
EA Origin
Blizzard's Battle.net
Epic Launcher
Ubisoft UPlay
Arc Launcher
So on and so forth

At this point, id Software / Bethesda are just following the crowd. And as @Pegg said, the sheer amount of money that can be saved by doing it in a homemade launcher vs steam easily would justify the slight drop in sales.

 

If I were them I'd offer it on both Steam and their own client. I'd give a **completely free** extra benefit to launching via the custom client vs steam, something of value but not impacting in the game itself beyond, say, cosmetics. Make it worth it from a user's perspective to promote purchasing through the launcher instead of steam. Bare in mind I said extra. Something like a free digital copy of the OST, exclusive skins in multiplayer or whatever.

 

 

 

 

 

Also

 

17 minutes ago, Jerry.C said:

But seeing how they try to hijack the system to enforce their DRM

 

Please explain what clients you know of that 'hijack a system' and what effects said hijacking have.

 

The only thing that comes close to what you're saying that I'm aware of is questionable anti-cheating applications like nProtect's GameGuard, which is a rootkit.

[Fonze]

Video game companies running their own stores sounds like stories about how monopolies would pay their employees the company money so the employees can buy company products at the company store. 

[Cacodemon345]

I am not, in any way, going to buy Doom Eternal if they decide to put it out of Steam. And fuck Fallout 76.

 

About the DRM/Anti-piracy thing, they aren't actually that good. The only thing they do is just simply limit the reach to audience and actually encourage companies to put more $$$ on their games, which is not a good thing. No, sorry Croteam, I don't need to buy Serious Sam 3 : BFE because you all decided to make the whole thing Steam-exclusive with SteamWorks DRM shit. There's a reason why I never buyed DRM/Anti-piracy-laced games. If they are going to put in malware in the name of "anti-piracy" (which happened with FlightSimLabs), then I am not going for such games. That's a big fuck NO.

[seed]

1 hour ago, Cacodemon345 said:

I am not, in any way, going to buy Doom Eternal if they decide to put it out of Steam. And fuck Fallout 76.

 

Same, besides not caring for F76.

 

The reason is very simple, I'm unwilling to install a million apps and create tons of accounts just for the sake of playing a few games, no thank you. And considering my low interest in new games that's really not an issue for me, after all I'm still playing the same games I've played over a decade ago.

 

Should Doom Eternal never release on Steam then I'm never buying it. I never bought Doom 2016 either considering that my PC couldn't handle it on my desired settings anyway. I'll just stick once again to YT videos/streams, articles, and maybe play it at a friend if they have any interest in the game. Never thought I'll miss the time when digital distribution was not a thing...

[Jerry.C]

3 minutes ago, Agent6 said:

Never thought I'll miss the time when digital distribution was not a thing... 

 

I knew we were in trouble when Half-Life 2 required online verification. It was clear that this would be something the industry would jump on and fully embrace, because to them all gamers seem to be pirates.

So here we are, 14 years later, and modern computer gaming has degenerated into a cesspool, and now is getting all the cancerous shit from mobile gaming as well. :(

 

[seed]

1 minute ago, Jerry.C said:

I knew we were in trouble when Half-Life 2 required online verification. It was clear that this would be something the industry would jump on and fully embrace, because to them all gamers seem to be pirates.

So here we are, 14 years later, and modern computer gaming has degenerated into a cesspool, and now is getting all the cancerous shit from mobile gaming as well. :(

 

Yeah, I remember that HL2 requiring Steam was criticized at the time. It was only natural that this would eventually happen (others following in Valve's steps), there was no way Steam was ever going to remain the only digital service. Seeing where were's standing in the present however still sucks though...

[Dragonfly]

7 hours ago, Jerry.C said:

But seeing how they try to hijack the system to enforce their DRM

 

I directly asked you a question @Jerry.C.

 

7 hours ago, Dragonfly said:

Please explain what clients you know of that 'hijack a system' and what effects said hijacking have.

 

The only thing that comes close to what you're saying that I'm aware of is questionable anti-cheating applications like nProtect's GameGuard, which is a rootkit.

 

I'd like to understand more. Thanks.

[Gez]

7 hours ago, Dragonfly said:

I mean, I agree with the angry mob that having it on another launcher is absolute shit, but it's nothing surprising.

Steam
GOG
EA Origin
Blizzard's Battle.net
Epic Launcher
Ubisoft UPlay
Arc Launcher
So on and so forth

 

As far as GOG is concerned, using the Galaxy client remains fully optional I believe. At least I haven't installed any GOG title that required it, since I haven't installed Galaxy.

 

7 hours ago, Dragonfly said:

At this point, id Software / Bethesda are just following the crowd. And as @Pegg said, the sheer amount of money that can be saved by doing it in a homemade launcher vs steam easily would justify the slight drop in sales.

 

If I were them I'd offer it on both Steam and their own client. I'd give a **completely free** extra benefit to launching via the custom client vs steam, something of value but not impacting in the game itself beyond, say, cosmetics. Make it worth it from a user's perspective to promote purchasing through the launcher instead of steam. Bare in mind I said extra. Something like a free digital copy of the OST, exclusive skins in multiplayer or whatever.

I'd just make it cheaper. Like 65 bucks on Steam, but only 50 on Beth.net, you wanna save money you install the client and there you go. (Numbers aren't too arbitrary either: 50 + 30% = 65.)

 

Then instead of a negative buzz about stuff not being on Steam, you'd get a positive buzz about stuff being cheaper with the publisher's own client, because you don't have to pay for Valve's 30% margin.

[Avoozl]

.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Avoozl

[Quasar]

Fun fact about GOG: part of their QA process is making sure your game will run without the client installed or currently logged in. If it doesn't, you won't be launching until you fix it. The only service that's allowed to require Galaxy is multiplayer, if and when the GOG Galaxy MP services are used, as those are inherently tied to your GOG account in order to have access granted to use the resources. Which makes sense IMO - online MP through a 3rd party is an ongoing service, not just a product.

[Cacodemon345]

2 hours ago, Dragonfly said:

 

I directly asked you a question @Jerry.C.

 

 

I'd like to understand more. Thanks.

It is sometimes better to find your own answer to your question rather than wasting time waiting for an answer.

[Dragonsbrethren]

I still don't know how to feel about Steam these days. I genuinely enjoy using the client and I think Big Picture Mode is a better console interface than actual game consoles offer. It pioneered community sharing and streaming features for games that the consoles are making use of now. I was actually excited for the possibility of Valve entering the console space...but they totally screwed that one up.

 

But the store itself is a total mess now, and I think it's fine if the bigger publishers with name recognition move away from the platform. That Steam is still such a pillar of PC gaming is really amazing. I don't really want to install each publisher's client, either, I'd rather just install the games themselves. The clients are just marketing...just like Steam was for Valve when it was required for their retail releases.

[geo]

14 hours ago, explorix said:

But how, when a big part of young men have nothing better to do than play games?

More women for the men that don't play an excessive amount of games.

[Nems]

Eh, no big loss for me. I got Doom 2016 for the PS4 and I'm gonna get Doom Eternal for the PS4 as well. Everything I play on the PC these days either doesn't need Steam (i.e. older games that have source ports for them) and/or can be found on GOG as well. I abandoned Steam a long time ago. These days, if I can't get it on GOG or on a console, it's dead to me. I save a whole bunch of money that way.

[Touchdown]

I have to say, while I'm not a fan of having multiple launchers for different games, I find people who absolutely, completely refuse to install them hilarious. Like it's some kind of a higher moral issue. Stop making it more dramatic than it is. I just installed it yesterday, took me 3min to do it. Oh no, what a catastrophy! I don't think I'll ever recover!

 

It really is very simple. You want to play a game that requires a launcher? Well, install it then. It costs you nothing and takes merely a couple of minutes. That's not much of a sacrifice to be able to play the new DOOM or whatever game you're excited about. Some of you blow it out of proportions so much that it's laughable.

[Dragonfly]

6 hours ago, Cacodemon345 said:

It is sometimes better to find your own answer to your question rather than wasting time waiting for an answer.

 

It's also wise to ask someone who claims to have an educated understanding of said topic to impart their wisdom.

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Gez said:

As far as GOG is concerned, using the Galaxy client remains fully optional I believe. At least I haven't installed any GOG title that required it, since I haven't installed Galaxy.

 

 

That's a fantastic way to handle it! I can't say I'm well versed with GOG, having only bought 3 games from them, all of which were nostalgia trips. I respect them even more now, great stuff.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Steam does cause problems with many games, some more annoying than others. I've had many of them but none were because of DRM.

 

A) Darkest Dungeon: constant crashes if the steam overlay is enabled.

 

B) Don't Starve / Together: Overlay sometimes lag the hell out of the game.

 

C) Path of Exile: Steam was fucking shit at patching this game. Downloaded a tiny update? Steam decides to check everything, unpacking and repacking. So a 1 min download still took 30+ mins to install. Fault of the devs at large though, only solution is using their launcher.

 

D) Some games needed launch commands. Don't remember the names because I refunded those shit games.

 

E) The new chat came out of beta worse than beta. Not a game but worth mentioning.

 

At least they offer refunds if a game runs like shit! I'd still rather buy stuff on GOG or Battle.net which never caused as many problems to me. (Still less than 5% of my games caused problems, mostly by indie devs)

[seed]

On 8/9/2018 at 11:25 AM, Touchdown said:

I have to say, while I'm not a fan of having multiple launchers for different games, I find people who absolutely, completely refuse to install them hilarious. Like it's some kind of a higher moral issue. Stop making it more dramatic than it is. I just installed it yesterday, took me 3min to do it. Oh no, what a catastrophy! I don't think I'll ever recover!

 

It really is very simple. You want to play a game that requires a launcher? Well, install it then. It costs you nothing and takes merely a couple of minutes. That's not much of a sacrifice to be able to play the new DOOM or whatever game you're excited about. Some of you blow it out of proportions so much that it's laughable.

 

Well, not blow out of proportion, but some of us simply aren't willing to fill our HDD with "Steams".

 

I'd rather not fill it with bloatware, that's all.

[riderr3]

Seems the owners of capital pull the blanket over each.

And result is more people will play the game on consoles.

[seed]

1 hour ago, riderr3 said:

And result is more people will play the game on consoles.

 

In the future, after getting a job, I definitely will get a console.

 

Another simple reason for that: Tired to death of system requirements.

[CARRiON]

Are system requirements that bad? Building a PC has a larger upfront cost but good parts tend to last anywhere from 5-8 years, the games are cheaper, you don't have to pay just to use online functionality, you don't have to pay for older games again even if you already own them, the lack of modability and openness, and I get the suspicion consoles are just going to push for streaming harder and harder now.

 

I only upgrade any parts that need it when I have like 5 or more games I can't play, and generally a GPU upgrade is all that's needed. A good CPU can carry you a long time. I haven't found consoles worth the bother since the Xbox/GameCube/PS2 days. If I were to get a console now though it would probably be a Nintendo one since they offer the most value that you don't totally get on any other platform.

 

As for Fallout 76 not being on Steam, I saw that one coming. Given Valve's hands off approach resulting in a cluttered store (That apparently even allows botnets now?) and the fact that Blizzard and EA proved you can have your own client and survive reaping all rewards I'm surprised more big AAA publishers haven't done the same by now. Nothing lasts forever. ^{*hugs my 850 GOG games not tied to any garbage clients*}

[seed]

1 hour ago, CARRiON said:

Are system requirements that bad? Building a PC has a larger upfront cost but good parts tend to last anywhere from 5-8 years, the games are cheaper, you don't have to pay just to use online functionality, you don't have to pay for older games again even if you already own them, the lack of modability and openness

 

About this part, yes, they're an enormous pain in the ass for me.

 

Maybe others were more lucky than me or whatever, but this is the consequence of being stuck with a potato for almost a decade. I still remember how I used to install various games on a friend's PC because mine could never run what I actually wanted to play, it was both a sad and a pathetic experience. That past experience was enough to make me decide that it's just not worth it, a decision I actually took a long, long time ago. And, I'm actually still doing the latter if I just so happen to have the chance as a matter of fact, Doom 2016 is an example since I can't run it, and by the time I'll eventually buy a new PC that will probably be capable of running the game (which is in the very far future), it might not even run anymore.

 

Sure, games on console are more expensive, but it's a price (quite literally) that I'm willing to pay (funny, as if I had a choice). MP really isn't an issue, when I said my interest in MP is close to 0 I meant it, so I have no reason to worry about paying for that, nor do I have to worry about rebuying a new edition of a game if the original was good enough (for instance, if I owned Skyrim on a X360 and had already played it to death I was never going to buy the SE). Modability is a bit of a mixed bag, I admit, but nothing ever had only advantages and no disadvantages.

 

I'm never going to give up on PC gaming completely, but I'm definitely changing my prefered gaming platform, and keeping the PC for everything else.