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Potatoguy

The "BUT" Thread

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4 hours ago, jazzmaster9 said:

but then again these types of complaints are bottom of the barrel "Must find one flaw" nitpicks which always pops up in any hyped game.

 

You are right. Complaining just on principle to conter the hype is pointless.

But dont you think that there are complains too that are made because people reconsidered it? IF SO one could turn around your argument calling every critique as "must find a flaw" is caused by blind hype or "must love everything they show".

 

 

Edited by Otus

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5 hours ago, Otus said:

You are right. Complaining just on principle to conter the hype is pointless.

But dont you think that there are complains too that are made because people reconsidered it? IF SO one could turn around your argument calling every critique as "must find a flaw" is caused by blind hype or "must love everything they show".

 

 

I mean I too have problems with some of the enemy designs. but to assume Laziness in part of the devs just because their decision was not to your liking is pretty dumb.

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First i didn´t came up with the laziness. I just used it in the context of the posting before. Second, even if it´s not laziness, i would call it at least a lack of creativity regarding the design of the new enemies. They look very generic. But i could imagine that the word generic is considered as a "hater-term" as well as cartoonish or whatever? How is it possible to tell that i dislike some aspects without getting labeled as dumb or hater or something else?

 

 

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am I crazy or when Doom2016 came out some people said "great, this is what we wanted, Doom 1993 with better graphics" because radical redesigns like pinky, caco, and hellknight from Doom 3 weren't faithful to the originals?

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51 minutes ago, Otus said:

How is it possible to tell that i dislike some aspects without getting labeled as dumb or hater or something else?

 

 

No one is calling anyone here "dumb or hater" for voicing criticism. Its people that start assuming the developers "don't Care about TRV DOOM"  when thet make a decisions that does not cater to what they want the game to be.

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I don't like the new invasion system idea, I've never liked systems like that (that encourage you to be a massive dickhead, which is why I'm particularly apprehensive about Fallout 76 as a whole). I'm also pissed there is PVP implemented into the campaign and not Co-operative which is something that always bothers me about id titles as they are perfect for Co-operative but just never include it.

 

I'm also one of the two people in the world upset at the lack of SnapMap news.

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3 hours ago, jazzmaster9 said:

I mean I too have problems with some of the enemy designs. but to assume Laziness in part of the devs just because their decision was not to your liking is pretty dumb.

 

It's funny that you're all offended because people are nitpicking... in a thread dedicated to nitpicking.


Gotta love how some folks get so defensive because somebody has a different opinion. How about instead of calling my opinion dumb you'd actually provide some counter arguments and continue the discussion?


I'll elaborate. I think that the art direction of certain enemies both in DOOM4 and DE is the result of a mix of id being somewhat paranoid about offending people by going too far from the originals and cheap crowd-pleasing. And I think the end result is ultimately boring, as it tends to be when everyone's playing it safe. It's a waste of talent, I'm pretty sure a lot of great concept arts went to waste because somebody was afraid that a slightly different take on the classic enemies would be met with backlash.


Or maybe that's not the case but whatever the reason the results are the same - some of those designs that are creatively lackluster. I'm more interested in something new. And before you say that they want to be faithful to the originals, well, they're not very faithful in terms of gameplay, are they? So I don't see a problem with being at least a bit more creative than just blatantly redoing the old sprites as if there are no other valid options.


There you have it. You disagree with that? Cool, let's hear your opinion.

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This is a good thread

 

But

 

I feel nitpicking at the Demo for the sense of difficulty is somewhat pointless. I recall the Doom 2016 demo having a little cheat where the health refused to drop below a certain threshold.

 

The new abilities do seem powerful but the developers have probably designed Doom Eternal to need it. A do or die in higher difficulties. We have no idea what difficulty the demo was on, how much will reflect in the final version or what controlled factors / scripts were in place.

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If I'm going to be constantly switching to the SSG so I can grapple hook around, the weapon switch speed better be instant like in Quake. I don't see the point in weapon switch delays when all the weapons are designed to have different utilities which you will be constantly switching between, having the right weapon equipped for the situation isn't as important here to warrant a weapon switch delay to punish carelessness. And let me use both mods at once for that matter. On keyboards this shouldn't be a problem at all, and on controllers you should be able to get creative enough with the input methods to let you use both at once. Like repeatedly mash the fire button on the new Combat Shotgun to trigger its automatic fire while the alternate fire button is reserved for bringing up the Explosive Shells.

 

I still think having a grappling hook on only the Super Shotgun instead of being a general ability (like for your shoulder launcher) is a bad idea. What if I want to fire weapons other than the Super Shotgun while swinging around with the grappling hook?

 

Actually explain what each difficulty setting does. Shadow Warrior 2 did this and it was very informative, and it culled a lot of hearsay on what the difficulty settings actually do. Everyone still only has a vague impression of what Nightmare difficulty in D16 changes.

 

Rebalance the Chainsaw so you can't just refill half of all your ammo with the press of a button. Like make it only usable when the enemies are staggered, or remove the i-frames when doing it to make it actually risky. Chainsaw kills being limited by fuel made no difference in practice when fuel was so abundant. Instead I'd ditch Chainsaw-for-ammo and do something that Ni-Oh did with Ki Pulses, where switching between styles after each attack would refill your stamina, so the idea was to get the timing right and keep switching between styles. Eternal could do something similar where after every weapon kill there's a very short 'pulse', and if you switch weapons while that pulse happens you'd get some free ammo for both the weapons you were using and are switching to.

 

Reoccurring Cyberdemon/Hell Guard/Spider Mastermind mini-bosses, sometimes in pairs or trios. Please.

 

Instead of having to press F to perform a Glory Kill on a staggered enemy and watch an animation play out, let me just dash into enemies to do a Glory Kill without the fatalities locking me in place. Pleeeeaaaase.

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Touchdown said:

 

It's funny that you're all offended because people are nitpicking... in a thread dedicated to nitpicking.


Gotta love how some folks get so defensive because somebody has a different opinion. How about instead of calling my opinion dumb you'd actually provide some counter arguments and continue the discussion?


I'll elaborate. I think that the art direction of certain enemies both in DOOM4 and DE is the result of a mix of id being somewhat paranoid about offending people by going too far from the originals and cheap crowd-pleasing. And I think the end result is ultimately boring, as it tends to be when everyone's playing it safe. It's a waste of talent, I'm pretty sure a lot of great concept arts went to waste because somebody was afraid that a slightly different take on the classic enemies would be met with backlash.


Or maybe that's not the case but whatever the reason the results are the same - some of those designs that are creatively lackluster. I'm more interested in something new. And before you say that they want to be faithful to the originals, well, they're not very faithful in terms of gameplay, are they? So I don't see a problem with being at least a bit more creative than just blatantly redoing the old sprites as if there are no other valid options.


There you have it. You disagree with that? Cool, let's hear your opinion.

Offended? I guess every one who does not agree with you is offended? Keep dreaming.

 

Yeah I do disagree with it.

The original designs were great then and are great now, then again You make it seem like ALL of their deisgns are just copies of the original when we can see that they have been somewhat updated and revamped for D2016 and DE.

The redesigns with the Imp, Arachnotron and the Cacodemon have similarities to the original but have a twist that makes them distinc and very NuDoom. 

You call it Lazy I call it being faithful to the original design Tom Hall and Adrian created.

 

Everyone literally cried about the Cyberdemon being too World of Warcraft and we still hear crying to this day.

S

About the The gameplay? Yeah they like the designs they didnt try to copy paste from the original and instead bring the spirit of the Frantic, fast paced, Dodge based gameplay of the original, So I dont see how they strayed from that concept. DE might even have a bit more variation in level design and exploration with the size of these maps.

 

 

There you have it. I DO DISAGREE.

 

The Nu ID guys Love and care about Doom as much as we do and to assume they Don't Care and are Lazy and incompetent because they made a design choice you dont agree with is just self centered. Plain and Simple (Unless we are talking about Loot boxes and all that pay 2 win shit)

Those designs remain for a reason and its not out of incompetence.

 

Edited by jazzmaster9

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the game look easy because you can fool your enemies twice with all the jump and phasing things, i'll play it without those things in the old way

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16 hours ago, jazzmaster9 said:

The Nu ID guys Love and care about Doom as much as we do and to assume they Don't Care and are Lazy and incompetent because they made a design choice you dont agree with is just self centered. Plain and Simple (Unless we are talking about Loot boxes and all that pay 2 win shit)

Those designs remain for a reason and its not out of incompetence.

 

 

For someone who's not offended you sure take it very personally, which is completely uncalled for. I'd also appreciate it if you stopped putting words in my mouth. I never said they were incompetent. I never said they don't care. I never even said they were lazy. I said their crowd-pleasing approach to enemy design is lazy, not that the team is lazy or that the game design is lazy. Stop blowing it out of proportions and making up blatant lies just because you don't like my opinion.

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 Just googled the Mancubus D64 variant. It's ridiculous. Both the classic and Doom 2016 look much more dangerous.

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7 hours ago, Touchdown said:

 

For someone who's not offended you sure take it very personally, which is completely uncalled for. I'd also appreciate it if you stopped putting words in my mouth. I never said they were incompetent. I never said they don't care. I never even said they were lazy. I said their crowd-pleasing approach to enemy design is lazy, not that the team is lazy or that the game design is lazy. Stop blowing it out of proportions and making up blatant lies just because you don't like my opinion.

Well right you are assuming their choice is a form of "crowd-pleasing" which pretty much means you think they only use those designs out of nostalgia, which is lazy and not out of pure design choice.

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I'm not so fond of the new legacy art style but...

In doom 2016 I had some issues in immediately distinguish the pick ups. Stimpacks from medipacks and plasma cells. They had a uniformity that was worrying, in terms of colors and design. I wish for a middle ground where health is immediately recognizable (not bluish like 3000 other pick ups) but without the weird super retro style that, in my opinion, just clash with the hyper futuristic look of the game. 

Enemy design... 

 

I did like doom 16 design and some redesigns, like the mancubus, look a bit like, we want to emulate the original but with a result that isn't too incredible. Enemies looks grotesque instead of disturbing like in the original doom. I can tolerate the "stupid" look of cacodemons and pain elemental but I wish the other bad guys to be more spooky if not downright terrifying. 

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On 8/24/2018 at 1:31 AM, VertigoOne said:

I still think having a grappling hook on only the Super Shotgun instead of being a general ability (like for your shoulder launcher) is a bad idea. What if I want to fire weapons other than the Super Shotgun while swinging around with the grappling hook?

 

Recurring* not reouccurring.

 

Anyway, this would also be my only complaint about the new Doom, I imagine it would get annoying to switch to the SSG to grapple on something after a while, even if there's a perk to make weapon switching instant or much faster (I think D2016 had one. Or was that for reload speed?).

 

It was best to have a separate grappling device.

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Two buts for me:

1) Sound design is a little noisy, an issue I also had with Doom 2016. Granted, when there's a lot of simultaneous action, that's to be expected...but something felt missing. Might be that some of the sounds lacked distinction. The music was interesting, but I'm hoping Mick Gordon will write some actual riffs this time, as opposed to collages of rhythmic ideas.

 

2) Remember the unused concept art from Doom 2016 that was posted a few months ago? I really liked that aesthetic and was a bit disappointed that the final product was more cartoonish. Eternal is following suit, and while it looks plenty Doom-y, I was hoping for something more sinister.

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13 hours ago, Kaos said:

I can tolerate the "stupid" look of cacodemons and pain elemental but I wish the other bad guys to be more spooky if not downright terrifying. 

 

I actually think the current gen version of the cacodemon is the scariest they've ever done. The blank, dull green pupiless eye, coupled with the mouth and jaw structure, plus the sounds it makes (which are far more ferocious sounding than anything from the previous incarnations) really sells it well.

 

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DOOM Eternal isn't quite faithful to DOOM II in terms of mapping complexity/longevity and limited/easy-to-kill monsters spawning each sector of the map with the new arsenal that Doom Slayer has now.

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Doom Eternal looks good...BUT....the Doomslayer needs to be more muscular, I want muscles on top of muscles! And I want moar Nu metal dub-step music by Mitch Gordon. 

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On 8/28/2018 at 11:59 PM, Man of Doom said:

Let's just say that there are VERY legitimate reasons why neo-Doom just can't have blaring thrash metal all the time. 

Yeah, those are pretty good points but I still prefer thrash more, I guess it's because I've grew up more with 80's/90's metal.

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