Doom Eternal won't have Snapmap

[VGamingJunkie]

That's because Sony is kind of a prick when it comes to this kind of thing. The whole Crossplay debacle is another symptom of it. I'm guessing many of Snapmap's limitations are directly because of Sony.

[MrGlide]

Snapmap is and always will be a fun learning tool. If ditching it is required for actual mod support, the decision is a no brainer for me. Will be awsome if actual mod support pans out.

[Nairb]

If it allows them to focus more on developing an amazing campaign and campaign DLC, then good riddance.  

[ATP2555]

I was hoping they'd update the Snapmap to have placeable human NPCs and physics for items.

[qweqioweuo123]

another reason modern gaming sucks is that devs keep the toolkits for themselves and we cant no longer make custom content with a proper map editor and so on. fuck them.

[TakenStew22]

5 minutes ago, qweqioweuo123 said:

another reason modern gaming sucks is that devs keep the toolkits for themselves and we cant no longer make custom content with a proper map editor and so on. fuck them.

id said there is a POSSIBILITY that they might add mod support after launch to replace SnapMap.

[Dragonfly]

1 hour ago, qweqioweuo123 said:

fuck them.

 

wow how entitled are YOU???????

[Edward850]

2 hours ago, qweqioweuo123 said:

another reason modern gaming sucks is that devs keep the toolkits for themselves and we cant no longer make custom content with a proper map editor and so on.

They don't "keep the toolkits for themselves", there's physically no toolkit they can give you. They need to make one you can actually use, and make components for the engine to load changes made by said public toolkit ad-hoc.

None of this is a free action. 

[Novaseer]

1 hour ago, Dragonfly said:

 

wow how entitled are YOU???????

One cannot measure such entitlement. It violates fundamental rule of the universe #226: "Thou shalt not measure entitlement which is beyond measurement."

Also, fundamental rule #292: "If a game hath modding support, then modding support may be appreciated. If a game hath not modding support, thy lack of modding support can not be shunned as if rule #48 were violated."
Rule 48 is "Thou shalt not introduce loot boxes to thine game."

[Gez]

If you want mod support for the latest id titles, you should start by getting the Rage toolkit and make some kickass mods with it.

 

I want to see like a few thousand Rage mods on the Nexus.

 

You do that, and mod support for Doom Eternal will become a larger priority.

[PvtHudson206]

This is like a loss, but not really at the same time. It sucks because SnapMap WAS really cool... when it was actually being used, and used right, however that didn't happen much. I think most people that actually used SnapMap, and used it well, kind of gave up because the market was flooded with garbage usually. I remember having to sort through so much crap just to find one good map all the time.

[ATP2555]

SnapMap would have been better if it wasn't so limited (due to consoles).

 

Here are the flaws:

• Lack of certain equipment (Hologram, Kinetic Mine, etc.)
• No playable Spectre and Cacodemon
• Lack of certain weapon mods (Rocket Launcher Lock-On Burst, Gauss Cannon Siege Mode, and a few others)
• Lack of certain weapon masteries (Super Shotgun, Chaingun, and many others)
• No Reaper or Grenade Launcher
• Super Shotgun alternate fire doesn't zoom in (it's the same as the primary fire)
• Inaccessible areas in certain modules (only reachable by teleporter)
• Only one type of echo (scientist)
• Can't set demons to do certain animations (Possessed lying on the ground)
• No entity/event to make demons attack/shoot at (like in most games)
• No movers (excluding the ones in classic modules)
• No spawnable projectiles/gunshots
• Only square doors (with the exception of the white-collar transition door)
• Only two doors for the grid room
• 12-monster limit
• No bosses (despite having code)

 

I wish they developed the game specifically for each platform, like Doom 3 on the Xbox where some levels were changed and split into multiple parts.

Edited September 23, 2018 by ATP2555

[Duke of Pathoris]

On 9/23/2018 at 10:44 AM, ATP2555 said:

I wish they developed the game specifically for each platform, like Doom 3 on the Xbox where some levels were changed and split into multiple parts.

That sort of development is most certainly not ideal. Especially considering modern game consoles have the same architecture as PCs, there is no fathomable excuse for doing that. 

[ATP2555]

12 hours ago, Duke of Pathoris said:

That sort of development is most certainly not ideal. Especially considering modern game consoles have the same architecture as PCs, there is no fathomable excuse for doing that. 

There is no excuse for the 12-monster limit either.

[Edward850]

2 hours ago, ATP2555 said:

There is no excuse for the 12-monster limit either.

Isn't there? So I take it you designed doom'16s AI and networking structures then. Can you give us some insights to their CPU tasking and memory usage then? I'd also love to know more about the networking used for them.

[Flesh420]

Everyone complains about mod tools but there's not a person that'd be able to make anything with it unless they dedicated a couple years on one map.  All these maps in modern games go through teams of designers and artists.  Art alone would require a vast amount of work.  Hell, the only decent mapset for Doom 3 is still being worked on, and that's one of the last games to use brushes/mesh.

 

 

[Duke of Pathoris]

2 hours ago, Flesh420 said:

Everyone complains about mod tools but there's not a person that'd be able to make anything with it unless they dedicated a couple years on one map.  All these maps in modern games go through teams of designers and artists.  Art alone would require a vast amount of work.  Hell, the only decent mapset for Doom 3 is still being worked on, and that's one of the last games to use brushes/mesh.

People seem to think we're still in Wolfenstein 3D or Doom mapping days where you can bash one out in a few weeks.

[snapshot]

14 hours ago, Flesh420 said:

Everyone complains about mod tools but there's not a person that'd be able to make anything with it unless they dedicated a couple years on one map.  All these maps in modern games go through teams of designers and artists.  Art alone would require a vast amount of work.  Hell, the only decent mapset for Doom 3 is still being worked on, and that's one of the last games to use brushes/mesh.

 

Agreed, I think anyone who's good enough with this sorta thing is probably already out there working with a team on an indie game or finding a job in a game dev team or something, gone are the days of free mods, very small percentage of game developers would be willing to let people mod their games nowadays.

[Ferk]

13 hours ago, Duke of Pathoris said:

People seem to think we're still in Wolfenstein 3D or Doom mapping days where you can bash one out in a few weeks.

 

Exactly. People generally underestimate the time, work and effort in making it. This is why even with proper modding tools it's doubtful there would be much of a modding scene with an ecosystem of mapsets, etc. At most, it'd be a handful of unfinished projects or slight modifications in weapons/gameplay.

 

I'd rather see that time being invested in innovative classic Doom wads making use of the features in the modern source ports, instead of spending the rest of my life waiting for a single worthy Doom Eternal mapset.

 

The more modern AAA engine of Doom Eternal is not a reason enough, not only it'd be closed source and your work would be tied to Bethesda irreversibly, but also by the time you finish your mapset there will be a better engine in the newest Doom 2053 VR Ultimate Immortal Edition and most of the modding community would have moved on.

 

Edited September 29, 2018 by Ferk

[printz]

I'm actually optimistic about this "failure" of SnapMap. Judging from descriptions, SnapMap sounds like a prefab-based editor, which spares the user from the low-level difficulties of modern mod making. To me, it looks like it was heavily hyped during Doom 2016, but now it fell in the "trough of disillusionment" of the hype cycle. As tools get better and editors mature, we'll have the mod support for Doom we want.

[Liberation]

I played a few snap map levels and felt that while it was a cool idea for console gamers, it was going to have a short shelf life. I'd rather we had official SP DLC, which I would've happily paid for, without question.

 

Of course modding tools would be nice, but I'm not sure what people are expecting. This ain't Half-life with worldcraft bundled in and PC gamer magazine doing tutorials on how to make maps, Doom3 was complicated enough to stop a decent sized mapping community being built up and fuck knows where'd you start with a D16 map.

 

And as stated, to the get whatever was used ready or adapted or even created for general consumption would a be a mission and probably more hassle than its worth considering the return. Lol by the time we have worked out how to make DE maps the new game will be out anyway. 

 

Some of the comments on this thread have been awful/retarded, especially giving someone shit who is actually in the game development industry and would clearly know about 99.9% more than the rest of us.

 

 

[mrthejoshmon]

As a primarily console player SnapMap was the best and closest thing I had to an editor to use at my disposal, with the removal of SnapMap and the focus on mods this means that console players will be severely restricted (maybe even completely severed) from using, enjoying but most importantly creating custom content for Doom Eternal which for people with shit PCs like me was a major draw of SnapMap.

[TakenStew22]

1 minute ago, mrthejoshmon said:

As a primarily console player SnapMap was the best and closest thing I had to an editor to use at my disposal, with the removal of SnapMap and the focus on mods this means that console players will be severely restricted (maybe even completely severed) from using, enjoying but most importantly creating custom content for Doom Eternal which for people with shit PCs like me was a major draw of SnapMap.

100% agree. SnapMap was a great tool for console users like me who didn't have powerful enough PC's to run most modern games. Like I said before, maybe they'll add mods to the console versions like they did with Skyrim SE and FO4.

[Potatoguy]

I am a huge advocate of what Snapmap was. Still am, in some sense. I was one of the most dedicated Snapmappers back in 2016, and was only resurged to make maps again because I've discovered that a good friend of mines still play Snapmap. It sorta motivated me to get back on what I never finished, and improve my wave maps to upmost perfection.

 

Back then I did a whole lotta shit surrounding snapmap. Be it helping on logic ideas, reviewing maps, attempt to hype things up, give announcement to updates and discoveries, and of course, whore out to get my map popular.

 

It's why it makes me pretty sour that Snapmap won't be getting a continuation in Doom Eternal.

 

Snapmap was SO CLOSE. SO CLOSE... to being what many dream of it to be. An incredibly modular editing tool, allowing full module creation, customizable demons, functioning campaign linking, with all weapons and mods of both SP and MP, and possibly the greatest function, a very creatable logic system with so many gamemodes and logics that can be completed if one was smart/dedicated enough to figure out the works.

 

But it was not this, or even 1% of this upon launch. And so many fell out of its piss-poor presentation, that even when updates that corrected the mistakes were released, the damage has been done. Not to mention the overloading amount of garbage that piles onto the map browser, that finding a good map requires a lot of luck or incredible amounts of advertising.

 

It... really is depressing how something that is pretty amazing now, is now a forgotten mode with only the most dedicated of snapmappers remaining. The sad thing is that Snapmap isn't entirely complete yet. There was just a few things missing to be whole but an update of it will never be completed, now that Eternal is the main focus. Just a few weapons remaining, a few mods left, some final props absent (like placeable doors, that would finally enable semi-modular creation), and even missing demons. The summoner was even a demon type that is confirmed to be part of Snapmap already; it's just not fully implemented. Probably won't ever be.

4th stat on the 2nd row. You can see "Summoner Kills" being tracked, even though the Summoner isn't even in Snapmap

 

I guess it would just be begging to ask the guys of Doom to make one last Snapmap update just to complete what was left. Any scrapped ideas just put in. So that we know Snapmap is finished or something...

[Duke of Pathoris]

Snapmap was based on prefabs because it would be impossible to make anything from scratch within a reasonable amount of time. You know, what with baking all this detail into the map itself. Custom geo even allows great things.

 

What I would appreciate though is the ability to create custom monsters using a scripting language and importing models.

[Chezza]

@Potatoguy In regards to the Summoner, it seems to work pretty well with Snapmap. There is a sort of "hack" you can do to include it in your maps. You need to download the map that has him and copy/paste it in yours (or build a new map around it, I forgot).

 

I wholeheartedly agreed with your post.

[Reisal]

Welp, there goes the longevity of Doom Eternal in the long run compared to the other Doom titles..

[TakenStew22]

33 minutes ago, Glaice said:

Welp, there goes the longevity of Doom Eternal in the long run compared to the other Doom titles..

Unless it has mods, which is a possibility.

[snapshot]

I'd sure love to see that happen, but I won't hold my breath.

[snapshot]

Do you think they dropped SnapMap because it wasn't doing well? or because they just want to make sure Singleplayer DLC sales won't be too low? or both?