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elend

The Incident - My very first map

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To be honest, as for first map it looks very good and it plays the same way. It takes few months or year or a bit more for casual newbie to reach decent level of mapping and expressing ideas freely on grid. Take it as compliment ;)

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40 minutes ago, Myst.Haruko said:

To be honest, as for first map it looks very good and it plays the same way. It takes few months or year or a bit more for casual newbie to reach decent level of mapping and expressing ideas freely on grid. Take it as compliment ;)

 

I do, believe me, I do. I am already happy, that I actually finished it. Thank you very much for your kind comment.

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Your level looks great. It's first levels that look like this that make other first-time submitters shake their heads. I haven't played it yet, so I can't comment on how it plays. But if it plays half as good as it looks, then consider that a win, especially for a first map.

 

There is clearly a story underlying this level, which, to me, is embodied in this sequence of pictures. Something clearly happened to establish a Hellish presence right next to the seemingly ordinary techbase and then the demons finally broke through (literally, they broke through a wall) and overrun the base. I think you could make an episode exploring that story, with this serving as the middle, between the ordinary overrun techbases and the Hellish realm where the demons came from.

 

And I say an episode because that length (4-8 levels), is much more manageable than 20 or 30 levels.

 

7 hours ago, elend said:
Spoiler

screenshot007yycpm.jpg

screenshot008nvc22.jpg

screenshot009vlc7d.jpg

 

 

6 hours ago, elend said:

Some may find the detail to be a bit too much

I think the level of detail is quite good. I think you really conveyed the techbase theme, specifically the techbase that has been corrupted by demons theme.

 

Looking at your automap, there are a number of lines that I'm sure are related to lighting and shadows and whatnot. Have you done any cleanup on your automap so it doesn't look as cluttered in game?

 

7 hours ago, elend said:

Time spent: Approx. 160 hours (30 hours reading tutorials, 30 hours cursing and 100 hours actual build time)
Tutorials read: Approx. 2,546
Doom streams consumed: Approx. 500 hours
Coffees spilled: 3

7 hours ago, elend said:

I started Doom mapping in a moment of confusion around June 2018.

You have a sense of humor about all this. Hold on to that sense, it will serve you well.

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7 hours ago, elend said:

Enemy placement could probably be vastly improved as well, but I was learning as I was building the map.

 

I didn't want this to get lost in the previous reply, which was getting long. Enemy placement is definitely an art form, and it takes time to master. You may have already read this tutorial, but in case you haven't, here is a tutorial on enemy placement by Ghastly and Grymmoire, with input from a variety of highly-skilled, well-respected, and award-winning mappers.

 

 

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Thank you very much for the kind words. I really appreciate this.
 

Quote

Looking at your automap, there are a number of lines that I'm sure are related to lighting and shadows and whatnot. Have you done any cleanup on your automap so it doesn't look as cluttered in game?

 

At one point I actually planned this, but as the lines got more and more I was wondering: Christ, is there an easy way to do this? I know in GZDoom Builder's Automap mode, I can hide the lines, but I have to manually click every single one of them, is that correct? I guess for my next map I will do this. This one I just wanted to get out.

 

Quote

I think the level of detail is quite good. I think you really conveyed the techbase theme, specifically the techbase that has been corrupted by demons theme.

 

Exactly, the thought was something like that a hellportal opened and literally tore through the whole base. If you look at the automap and the screenshots you can see that it obliterated everything in its way.

 

Regarding the monster placement thread, I actually read this already and it is a very great post. Sometimes I just encountered, that my map wasn't really suited for certain things, mainly because I just started throwing linedefs around without proper pre-planning.

 

Again, thank you, thank you, thank you!

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19 minutes ago, elend said:

Thank you very much for the kind words. I really appreciate this.

 

You're quite welcome.

 

19 minutes ago, elend said:

At one point I actually planned this, but as the lines got more and more I was wondering: Christ, is there an easy way to do this? I know in GZDoom Builder's Automap mode, I can hide the lines, but I have to manually click every single one of them, is that correct? I guess for my next map I will do this. This one I just wanted to get out. 

 

Perhaps someone more well-versed in GZDoom Builder knows a simpler way to do it, but the only way I know is click on the line and set it to be invisible. It can be tedious, but my recommendation to help with that tedium is that you make those lines invisible as you build each room, rather than waiting until the end. It will still take about the same total amount of time, but:

  • It will be part of the organic flow of building the level (as you add the lines to define a shadow, you just make them invisible).
  • You're less likely to miss clicking on one of a few thousands linedefs, so you're less likely to end up with a stray line showing up in the middle of your automap.
  • If you later decide you'd rather them be visible for some reason, it's easier to go back and make the lines you want visible than the other way around.

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Posted (edited)

This is your FIRST Map? You could've said this was your 100th and fooled me. DAMN is this detail quality high! Seriously this map looks absolutely delightful. However I can't consider this a perfect wad for two issues I had.

 

1: I pretty much had to use auto map a LOT since I got lost fairly easily and since the map loops, getting lost only became more frequent (Thankfully there's a computer map ^_^).

 

2: L A G. Seriously whilst the hell room was absolutely gorgeous in it's design, I think you added too much detail to the point that the room started to chug quite a bit. The biggest offender being the reflective flooring as even slightly looking down dropped frames rapidly.

 

Overall I do highly recommend this wad, Just be careful of over-detailing. 9.5/10.

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@DynamiteKaitornHaha yes, actually I was not sure if I should keep this, since my laptop is fairly weak and I think most other people will have a better one. On my next map I will definitely tone it down, since I want to focus on actually creating interesting spaces for gameplay.

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FDA in GZDoom 3.2.5. Have to warn you I got lost a bunch, so this is probably a dull watch. Design is pretty good and shows a lot of promise. Some issues: 

 

1) The detail level is fine, but what turned out to be a serious impediment was that important features -- switches to lower keys (especially that tiny one for the blue key), doors, even lifts -- all blended into the visual noise. This was why I got lost so often. I'd suggest working on drawing more attention to that stuff. More important or noticeable features for usable stuff in such cases, even lighting effects, can help a lot.  

 

2) Gameplay is pretty easy and straightforward albeit serviceable -- occasional traps, SSG jousting against some mid-tiers, multi-kills against imps and zombies, a climatic 'ending' mostly for show. The main issue is it seemed there were basically 5x as many shellboxes as I'd ever realistically use. The glut of ammo isn't really the problem; it's more of a cosmetic and immersion issue ... I was just fixated on how many there were, everywhere.

 

3) Yes, that last area was incredibly laggy. Every two seconds, halting for a second or so, often even longer (and then Doomguy moving around uncontrollably with the last few seconds of my inputs). I have a feeling you can shave off almost all the lag by sacrificing 5-10% of the visual complexity, and that something that isn't too indispensable to the scenery is driving the lag up like crazy. I noticed some reflection effects in the water. It might be that? Worth trying out, because this is going to be unplayable. (Also, glad there wasn't a cyb because that is the one monster that would have been annoying to fight.)

 

Anyway, keep it up! 

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I didn't have much time, so I just loaded this up and ran around a bit with iddqd. In that short time, I also became somewhat concerned about rdwpa's point #1 above. But I must agree that the level looked great - well polished with nice tech touches, including an interwoven design. I can't really comment on the monsters since I was invincible, but it seemed at least adequately interesting.

 

You obviously showed patience and dedication in submitting your first map to the public, so it's not particularly surprising that this is the result. Most first timers seem to spend only several hours, not several hundred, and then when the public says their maps are pretty crude and need lots of work, we never hear from them again. So here's to hoping you continue to develop and produce maps of this caliber. Congrats on making it this far already.

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@rdwpa Wow, first of all, thank you very much for taking your time and actually recording a demo. This is incredible valuable to me, since I did not have any playtesters whatsoever. To me the map was actually quite linear, so it is kind of difficult to discern what other people will think. I was laughing a little when you finally found the second switch for the blue key. I know that this is anything but good, yet the blue key is actually not important for progression. I was surprised that you struggled most with the ordinary switch removing the metal bars from the hallway. At one point you even stared at it through the window. I guess my lifts were too camouflaged. :D In any case, I clearly see what you mean and will keep this in mind with my next maps. Regarding the ammo, I noticed you played on UV, I might have overdone it a bit, I guess. I tested it several times and thought "better a little bit too much ammo"... Again, thank you very much!

 

@HAK3180 Thanks for your kind words. At first it started out as "just a quick tech base", but I kind of got swept up with that damn detailing. Also I had to learn basically everything first, so that's why it took so long, too. I hope my next map will be better. Thanks again, very appreciated!

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Very enjoyable. The only comment I have is that the exit could maybe be better signposted. I still had about 60 enemies to kill when I hit the switch, so I didn't think it was going to be the exit.

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Ooohhh, good point.. Never even thought of that, because I usually kill everything first before taking my time and exploring the evironment.

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Posted (edited)

For a first map, outstanding. Thank you for using slopes more for decorations and panels rather than forcing the player to constantly walk over an uneven floor. Big. Sprawling. Fun. Using GZDoom 3.4.1. I had a problem easily identifying some lifts because you had other similarly-shaped structures also using the same metal textures which weren't lifts. The only two things I found were that a Manc and a PE didn't teleport into the final room from their closet. GZDoom requires monster_radius +1 to cross a teleport linedef before the monster teleports. Your teleport line is too close to the wall. The other thing is that the music didn't play for MAP01. Don't know why. It looks set up correctly in the Mapinfo. Does using $MUSIC_RUNNIN in Mapinfo require a Dehacked or Language lump where $MUSIC_RUNNIN is defined? I'd think it would use the default. Other than that, great work.

 

Edit: Figured out the music problem. I have it set up to use Fluidsynth. I just checked. Found the error 'unable to load. invalid argument'. Haven't had this problem with other midis. Odd. Changing it fixes the problem.

Edited by EffinghamHuffnagel

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Oh, also good to know with the monster teleports. It was literally my first teleport ever. I will keep this in mind in future maps. Thanks a lot for the comments and time to play my map. 

 

Also that music bug is strange.

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Loved this map and the obvious thought that went into it. But I cannot find that last secret for the life of me, and I just spent like an hour looking for it haha.

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I didn't play through all of it but its very well made. I'm going to play through the rest of it. Well made, 5/5 for me so far. For a first map, very well done. B-)

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First, I think it's incredible that this is your first job. The care for detail and lighting is exquisite. In addition, the map is designed with very good taste and a very original use of textures.

 

The map is easy but very enjoyable, has some interesting ambushes but you always have ammo and health to spare. The architecture is quite impeccable, with some very curious and pleasant details, such as doors and walls broken in addition to other decorations. I like the design of the base, with some backtracking, although as you can see in the video, I had a hard time finding the damn lever that opens the access to one of the last areas (although it was clearly visible).

The secrets, as you can see, I'veve taken the four t. I don'tt know if it is because you made them easy to find, or because I'm also a mapper and one is an old dog.

I also liked the ending zone, with an incredibly detailed area that design reminded me a lot of the final level of the first Quake, although as I said before I found it too easy, even to have played in HMP. Perhaps I'm a extreme difficulty bitch hehe

 

In conclusion, I've really enjoyed this map, and since its your debut, I'm sure that your future projects will be very interesting and popular. Here, of course, you've done a great job!

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First of all a super big thanks for playing and even recording your play! That was the first time I saw the last room woth more than 10 fps. xD

 

That damn lever is really funny. I knew that hiding a lever behind a pillar is not the best thing to do, especially if it‘s not even a secret. So I laid some breadcrumbs around it, but everyone rushes past it. I even put a window there in the hopes that people might see it through the video.

 

Ah well, lesson learned. Also I noticed the wrong texture, gotta fix that asap. 

 

Again: Big thanks!

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I'm away from my comp so I can't play your map  but congrats on releasing a playable wad! You are officially ahead of me 😉

 

Putting a creative work out in view of the general public deserves +10 Internet. 

 

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Just now, Bridgeburner56 said:

Putting a creative work out in view of the general public deserves +10 Internet. 

You cheapstake, it should be +100

internets!

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As everyone else has already said, this was a stunning map, in the best tradition of corrupted base maps.  Reminded me a ton of Breach.  I liked your description of a hellportal opening and fucking up things in the 'blast radius' so to speak, and the way the architecture is done helps sell that-- it doesn't feel like a place that the demons have come to and rebuilt manually, or even overgrown with flesh, as some corrupted bases tend to be.  Rather, it really does feel like pulses or bubbles of unreality have blown things open and simply turned pipe and bulkhead to marble and blood, right then and there.

 

Did feel a little bit odd to me that lava/slime liquids weren't damaging, was that intended?  Obviously making the blood non-damaging is the right call.

 

I didn't get a chaingun until after the blue key door, but the proliferation of big ammo boxes before that made me sure there had been an earlier chaingun that I missed.  IMO there's no point in giving the player non-secret ammo boxes until after you expect them to have the chaingun.

 

Difficulty was fine on my preferred touristy skill level.

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52 minutes ago, jerrysheppy said:

Reminded me a ton of Breach.

I had the same thought.

 

There were times where a ceiling tile or patches of floor would be missing in an otherwise seemingly untouched hallway--those seemed a little off. But that is a minor quibble.

 

55 minutes ago, jerrysheppy said:

I liked your description of a hellportal opening and fucking up things in the 'blast radius' so to speak, and the way the architecture is done helps sell that-- it doesn't feel like a place that the demons have come to and rebuilt manually, or even overgrown with flesh, as some corrupted bases tend to be.

It seemed to me that the demons had established some sort of foothold and then burst through into the base. Not exactly like "UAC built their base right next to a demonic hive" (house built on an Indian burial ground cliche), but given that the final area is so complex, it's clear that it is not a fly-by-night operation that the demons just set up.

 

Given that you end up the level in the Hell area, I repeat my statement that this feels like it could lead into future parts of an episode or small mapset.

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10 hours ago, elend said:

That damn lever is really funny. I knew that hiding a lever behind a pillar is not the best thing to do, especially if it‘s not even a secret. So I laid some breadcrumbs around it, but everyone rushes past it. I even put a window there in the hopes that people might see it through the video.

 

It's something I definitely learned with my first maps is to always presume the player will miss stuff you personally think is obvious.  People tend to play Doom maps very quickly, spending very little time examining the level itself.  So switches and doors need to be abundantly clear that that's what they are.  Bright lights, eye-catching textures, and memorable geometry can all help draw attention to something and make sure people don't miss it.

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Comparing this to Breach is really too much of an accolade for me to accept, but thank you very much nonetheless.

 

Regarding the ammo boxes, that's something I haven't given much thought to, to be honest. I just put them there, becuase "later in the level, there's a chaingun anyway". It might also be a bit odd, because I switched weapon places around, without changing ammo as well. Definitely something I want to improve in my later maps.

 

As well as those switches. xD Definitely will mark them better next time. If I hate anything, it's switch hunting in Doom, so seeing the players run aimlessly around, really broke my heart.

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