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Egg Boy

When Should You Introduce a Cyber Demon?

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(A Friend) is currently making a mapset, and (they) plan on centering a map around a cyberdemon within episode one, which map, do you think (they) should. And in general when should a mapset introduce everyone's favorite cyborg goat? Be it an episode, or a full megawad.

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Cyberdemons are generally one of the more difficult enemies, which is why they've typically been used later in maps or mapsets.

 

However, their usage can also send a message to the player. Yes, skilsaw used a cyberdemon in Map 01 of Ancient Aliens, but he was also trying to tell the player, "This is how this megawad is going to be. If you don't like it, just stop now." bAlso, as skilsaw has said, the object was not to actually fight the cyberdemon when you first encountered it, but to run away.

 

The key to the cyberdemon is, like all other monsters, to use it where it is most appropriate and the biggest threat to the player. If you think about it that way, as Bauul said, there is "best" time to introduce them. Let the flow of the map, episode, or megawad dictate when and where to introduce the cyberdemon.

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8 minutes ago, galileo31dos01 said:

First map, like this:

 

Screenshot_Doom_20180901_233449.png.27a0eda45ac68a38200740c3c0eae295.png

Beatiful cybie!! :v

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1 hour ago, Egg Boy said:

(A Friend) is currently making a mapset, and (they) plan on centering a map around a cyberdemon within episode one, which map, do you think (they) should. And in general when should a mapset introduce everyone's favorite cyborg goat? Be it an episode, or a full megawad.

Maybe try asking that question from different angle, and instead look at how that supposed map fits with the other maps in terms of difficulty and/or theme? Is it supposed to be a "boss map"? Is it gonna be one gimmicky map among others? Those are things I'd probably look at first personally.

The line of thought that there needs to be a set rule as to when certain enemies are to be introduced because there are "tiers of monsters" is not something I'm a huge fan of, same for when weapons get introduced, or how weapon progression works throughout a map.

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It depends. If you're introducing a cyber demon to your parents then I'd say anytime after the first two weeks of dating. Or after the second shag; whichever comes first...

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I think for a traditional megawad, Map08 (like in Doom 2) is a pretty good choice. Maybe 10 or 11 is even better. I definitely don't want to see any cyberdemons in the first six maps. I like when boss monsters are treated as such and don't appear too early.

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5 hours ago, theJF said:

It depends. If you're introducing a cyber demon to your parents then I'd say anytime after the first two weeks of dating. Or after the second shag; whichever comes first...

 

So right after meeting the cyber?

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When Should You Introduce a Cyber Demon?

 

When you least expect it. *Muwahaha cough cough*

 

On a more serious note, I think Cyberdemons works best either as a roaming threat you can't defeat yet or as a climax fight that introduce him in a setup the plays to his strengths. Cyberdemons are somewhat considered as a "boss monster" even though in modern times they are not as scary as they used to be in the early days due to higher skill level and modern controls but they should still not be underestimated. I personally like the roaming version being put in a sandbox map that can chase you all around the map while you still don't have the sufficient munitions to deal with since it adds a certain fear factor to the map and introduce a hazard you can't defeat, but playing a long map that ends up with a cool climax fight with it can also be quite enjoyable, especially if the arena or the setup is well-made. 

 

Or you can just throw in a shittons of Cyberdemons into the map and call it a day. Some players might enjoy that too.

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14 hours ago, galileo31dos01 said:

First map, like this:

 

Screenshot_Doom_20180901_233449.png.27a0eda45ac68a38200740c3c0eae295.png

 

Paging @Maes.

 

 

31 minutes ago, Uni said:

Or you can just throw in a shittons of Cyberdemons into the map and call it a day.

 

Sounds like a poorly thought out section of a slaughter map.

 

 

32 minutes ago, Uni said:

as a roaming threat you can't defeat

 

As long as you could eventually defeat it, you wouldn't invoke the ire of the "every map MUST be max-able or it's broken" crowd. I think it would be neat if you could have the cyberdemon as a roaming threat and manage to get it to arrive at the final arena for the climax fight, too.

 

I don't remember which map it was, but I remember seeing one where a Cyberdemon hunted you through an interconnected series of relatively narrow corridors. There was room for you to dodge and move and retreat and there was plenty of room for the Cyberdemon to follow you and you had enough ammo to defeat it, but you couldn't just circlestrafe around or dash in and hit it with the BFG or those sorts of things, so it was an interesting fight.

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20 minutes ago, Pegleg said:

Sounds like a poorly thought out section of a slaughter map.

 

Umm yeah that was part of the less serious section of my suggestions. But keep in mind, some players still enjoy setups like that.

 

20 minutes ago, Pegleg said:

As long as you could eventually defeat it, you wouldn't invoke the ire of the "every map MUST be max-able or it's broken" crowd. I think it would be neat if you could have the cyberdemon as a roaming threat and manage to get it to arrive at the final arena for the climax fight, too.

 

Yeah of course. At the beginning you have to avoid it at all cost and afterwards when you progress in the map and find stronger weapons, you can decide if you want to eliminate it.

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Currently I'll just introduce the first cybie about half way through the map, more of a surprise behind a wall you lower. The fight takes place in a rather cramped room with one or two pillars . The lowering wall means you have the obvious egress closing quickly if you're not quick.

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Quite often I will introduce Cybies early, but either a: make them weaker than a normal cybie by giving a lot of cover and ammo, b: add a telefrag or c: introduce them on UV only.

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I would say introduce them after the player can get their hands on the BFG. Maybe around map 10 or so?

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2 hours ago, Pegleg said:

As long as you could eventually defeat it, you wouldn't invoke the ire of the "every map MUST be max-able or it's broken" crowd. I think it would be neat if you could have the cyberdemon as a roaming threat and manage to get it to arrive at the final arena for the climax fight, too.

Have you forgotten?  You have been given these great weapons called "fists".

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If I were to make a megawad, I would put a cyberdemon at map 15 where the player could only use SSG to kill it, then a few at 27,28,29 but they have the BFG9000 at that point.  Then obviously there would be a bunch on level 31, the secret slaughter map.

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The Cyberdemon is a very good climax boss. I recommend about 2/3 of the way through the map. And unless you have 2 or more, I advise leaving out the BFG to make it more challenging.

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it really depends on how big of a boss you're gonna have him be.

is he gonna be like any other enemy? wandering around firing misses? then id say follow the style of DOOM

if he is gonna be a big Boss with an atmosphere of fear, then id say build up to it. 

 

just my opinion but a good boss leads with suspense. wanting to know what all these big, bad demons are afraid of. wanting to know what kind of hellish thing you're to encounter next? i think Legacy of suffering did that kinda thing perfectly (even if some of the lower monsters gave me heck )

 

Spoiler

especially the part where you climb in the vents and watch it go by.

 

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You can introduce the Cyberdemon anytime you want (hey it's your project) so long as you supply the necessary armaments or escape route.

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3 minutes ago, Ex Oblivione said:

so long as you supply the necessary armaments or escape route.

Which means a berserk pack and no escape route, basically

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5 hours ago, Phoby said:

I would say introduce them after the player can get their hands on the BFG. Maybe around map 10 or so?

 

I wouldn't give the player the BFG and load the map up on plasma prior to facing the cyberdemon. It significantly lessens the danger of the encounter.

 

5 hours ago, Doge Sword said:

Have you forgotten?  You have been given these great weapons called "fists".

If you haven't already played rdwpa's map for Nine Inch Heels, you should give it a try because it sounds like it might be right up your alley.

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Which means a berserk pack and no escape route, basically

Well the Cyberdemon is huge so that means he has huge guts. Rip and—

 

Well you know the rest.

 

 

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1 hour ago, zaszthedestroyer said:

just my opinion but a good boss leads with suspense.

@Egg Boy

Think about the opening of E2M8, especially the first time you played (or from Doomguy's perspective, just having arrived there).

 

You start out facing a disemboweled jawless Baron of Hell that's been hung on a wall. What could have done that to the most powerful enemy the game has thrown at you up to that point? The two Barons were the lords of the Phobos base. The only thing that could have done this is something immensely powerful. Then, when you finally enter the rest of the level, you can hear something stomping around. So, you know that there is something out there that is big and bad and very strong, but you don't know what it is.

 

So, what does that add up to? As zasz has already said, suspense.

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When she's pregnant and you've decided to marry her.

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After it takes you to its Cyberden for the first time. 

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8 hours ago, geo said:

When she's pregnant and you've decided to marry her.

That has all sorts of disturbing connotations.

 

But I guess it's in the same vein as:

image.png.20593870452cc2ba29e34cfdc3b753b0.png

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11 hours ago, Pegleg said:

@Egg Boy

Think about the opening of E2M8, especially the first time you played (or from Doomguy's perspective, just having arrived there).

 

You start out facing a disemboweled jawless Baron of Hell that's been hung on a wall. What could have done that to the most powerful enemy the game has thrown at you up to that point? The two Barons were the lords of the Phobos base. The only thing that could have done this is something immensely powerful. Then, when you finally enter the rest of the level, you can hear something stomping around. So, you know that there is something out there that is big and bad and very strong, but you don't know what it is.

 

So, what does that add up to? As zasz has already said, suspense.

it's true. just in my opinion the original cyberdemon wasn't that great. he was basically just a larger normal monster that you could circle strafe around. so all the suspense, in my opinion(unless you were playing for the first time) lead to nothing special.

(not dis-agreeing, just clarifying)

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