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The-Heretic-Assassin

Skulltag Was Amazing

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In my opinion, Skulltag was the greatest Doom source port ever made. People say it's more of a multiplayer source port, but it has a single player mode like Z and GZDoom. You could play offline multiplayer with bots! There was extra content included in Skulltag, such as new monsters, modes, and weapons. It even included a lot of new multiplayer maps. There are great mods made for Skulltag like the Goldeneye TC by Strikerman780 

 

Doom Center by someone else

 

And more!

 

There's now Zandronum, which is based-off Skulltag, but it's now trying to be more like GZDoom. Why make Zandronum more like that source port when you can just play with GZ instead? Anyway, Skulltag was awesome. I wish it was included in Delta Touch, or at least its multiplayer component and features implemented into GZ on Delta Touch. That would be very sweet. :)

Edited by The-Heretic-Assassin

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No, Zandronum is Multiplayer focused and still supports skulltag content, which have been turned into a standalone mod instead because they were unnecessary maps and extra weapons, monsters...etc.

 

Zandronum is not trying to be GZDoom, it's GZDoom base is getting updated to allow it to support more modern mods and modding features, that's all, Zandronum is pretty much Skulltag with less bullshit and updated engine.

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13 minutes ago, tempdecal.wad said:

No, Zandronum is Multiplayer focused and still supports skulltag content, which have been turned into a standalone mod instead because they were unnecessary maps and extra weapons, monsters...etc.

 

Zandronum is not trying to be GZDoom, it's GZDoom base is getting updated to allow it to support more modern mods and modding features, that's all, Zandronum is pretty much Skulltag with less bullshit and updated engine.

The extra content was not unnecessary to me.

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The developers deemed it unnecessary and decided to focus on the more important aspects of the port.

 

It is unnecessary because the port functions perfectly without it.

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3 minutes ago, tempdecal.wad said:

The developers deemed it unnecessary and decided to focus on the more important aspects of the port.

I'm glad Skulltag's data is downloadable for Zandronum. How can I make them work in GZ though?

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You can try to port it, but there are Zandronum / Skulltag scripting features required for the mod to work properly that are not available in GZDoom, unless you decide to take the longer road and redesign these things to work with GZ.

 

Also the mod is designed for Multiplayer anyways, and no one uses GZ for Multiplayer.

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Zandronum with skulltag_content loaded literally is Skulltag, just on a more refined/modern engine. When you load the content, it's the exact experience you got playing Skulltag right near the end of it's span.

 

I was an avid Skulltag fan pretty much the whole way through. I always liked the custom weapons and skins and somehow back in the day I loved the included DM maps, especially the earlier versions with less detail/no runes/etc, but half of them are unplayable to me now, too many cramped shitty layouts.

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I know Zandronum with Skulltag's content is the same experience, but it's said that the source port might be discontinued if GZDoom gets one thing from that source port. I forgot the name, but I think it was a client? I got worried.

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16 hours ago, The-Heretic-Assassin said:

I know Zandronum with Skulltag's content is the same experience, but it's said that the source port might be discontinued if GZDoom gets one thing from that source port. I forgot the name, but I think it was a client? I got worried.

It's if GZDoom gets client/server support then Zandronum will switch its codebase to it, essentially giving Zandronum every GZDoom feature if not outright merging the two source ports into a single source port. Basically nothing but good things will come out of it.

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18 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Skulltag honestly blew my tiny little 14-year-old mind when I found it for the first time. It was at v0.96f and kind of primitive compared to nowadays, but it had:

 

- Doom with Quake III-like multiplayer and single-player bot matches? Hell yes.

- Capture the Flag? Hell yes.

- New enemies that can be used in SP maps? Hell yes.

- New weapons? Hell yes.

- Player skins? Hell yes.

 

Version 0.97b was probably the thing I anticipated the most in my entire life up to that point (shows how much I got out as a kid). It was gonna have a ton of new maps, DECORATE support (!!!), and a new Invasion campaign! Plus OpenGL support (...using ZDoomGL, which turned out to be highly problematic and within about two subsequent versions they swapped it out for GZDoom's renderer).

 

There's no real point to this post, I'm just sorta waxing nostalgic here.

 

DUDE ALL OF THIS.

 

Skull tag. god, my first on line death match was in skulltag. I loved all the different game modes they had. i also remember being highly disappointed by zandronium bc it didn't sing to me the sweet lilting tones skulltag did.

I loved basically everything about skull tag, from the killer icon, to the on line and

off line matches (wif bots) My god....such good memories.

i *think* i even played temple of the lizardman on it for the first time, and being blown away by what could be done...Skull tag Singlehandedly re ignited my passion for game design when i felt burnt out. then....they stopped making it.....and im sad :(

GZDoom is a port i like, but skulltag will always be my first love.

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I remember being angry as a youngster that everyone on Skulltag/ZDaemon was using it for deathmatch. I still liked DM back then, but I had a craving for cooperative. The older I got, the more DM obsessed I became and the less I cared about co-op. As is par for course in my life, the community grew in the opposite direction and now I find myself moaning about the lack of DM and abundance of survival/co-op! In some ways a lot has changed since then, in other ways everything is exactly the same as it ever was. Memmoriiess ~~

 

4 hours ago, Death Egg said:

It's if GZDoom gets client/server support then Zandronum will switch its codebase to it, essentially giving Zandronum every GZDoom feature if not outright merging the two source ports into a single source port. Basically nothing but good things will come out of it.

 

C/S GZDoom. My body is ready!

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I used to be absolutely obsessed with SkullTag... in 2013... before I realized it had already died... and that I had been playing with bots all along.

 

I still love all those YT videos on SkullTag which have sort of become a time capsule for what the scene was like. I'm kind of surprised that a port with such a massive online presence wasn't kept up if not maintained, was it to do with internal problems with the team?

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Basically, it became "Carnevil VS Everyone Else" as far as the development team/staff side of things was concerned. I was a Carnevil sycophant as a kid because he had given me help personally with mapping/servers/etc during my earliest years in the community, so much so that for a long time I refused to acknowledge that he was the one who had fucked up when things first went sour in early 2012, leading to the great Skulltag downfall.

 

Looking at history through a more detached lens, he just got carried away with his possessiveness over the project despite being all but absent for the final chapters of Skulltag's life. Even now I don't like talking shit about Carn - to me, he's a good dude who just let his ego get the best of him at a pivotal time for the source port, but others had very different dealings with him and thus a far more negative view. I'm certain they have their reasons. The salt levels were super high all around back then, between rivaling source ports and even within their own segregated communities. The inter-port community fracturing that dates back to the early 00's has never properly healed and it all ties into shit like this, in addition to a wealth of other old dramas/bullshit/cheaters/Carnevil trying to cuck UD over using his textures/massive shit talkers/CodeImp literally breaking ZDaemon for a while/loads more old examples of the insanity that went on back then..

 

If more juicy details are required, I'm sure some of the other Crusty Old Fucks™ can fill in the blanks. The multiplayer Doom community has always been a fractured faction of nutcases, perhaps that's why I've always fit in so well on that half of the Doom scene.

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15 hours ago, zaszthedestroyer said:

i also remember being highly disappointed by zandronium bc it didn't sing to me the sweet lilting tones skulltag did.

 

Uhh...I knew about Skulltag and had it for years, but only played Doom online on Zandronum, what are you talking about?

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Yeah Skulltag was the best. I'm probably the only one who misses exploring the mystery dens of clan headquarters maps though. Strikerman780's SMMP is the best one though, and second place would go to FSR HQ. Those times had lots of creativity and stuff going on!

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47 minutes ago, elarmadillo3 said:

Uhh...I knew about Skulltag and had it for years, but only played Doom online on Zandronum, what are you talking about?

i just didn't like zandronium? it seemed inferior to skulltag?

 

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54 minutes ago, SuperCupcakeTactics said:

Yeah Skulltag was the best. I'm probably the only one who misses exploring the mystery dens of clan headquarters maps though. Strikerman780's SMMP is the best one though, and second place would go to FSR HQ. Those times had lots of creativity and stuff going on!

The hotel map from MM8BDM is like that too. And those servers are usually pretty active.

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2 minutes ago, elarmadillo3 said:

Oh...Didn't understand you before, i couldn't tell what you meant by "sweet lilting tones".

oh! sorry. my therapist says i tend speak in metaphor.

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The best part of the "Skulltag era", in my opinion, is how prevalent the Invasion gamemode was. Servers were always packed, the Delta and Armageddon mappacks were relatively new releases, everyone spent hours playing through all maps, and the maps themselves were (mostly) really enjoyable and iconic. It's really sad how pretty much all of the good Invasion mappers dipped and there haven't been notable releases in many years since. :(

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i got my start playing skulltag back in the day. People still play AFTSDM on zandronum almost 9 years later, I was in my final year of high school when it was released. The skulltag content and additions definitely made it into what it was at the time and i guess still is now

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44 minutes ago, Zakken said:

The best part of the "Skulltag era", in my opinion, is how prevalent the Invasion gamemode was. Servers were always packed, the Delta and Armageddon mappacks were relatively new releases, everyone spent hours playing through all maps, and the maps themselves were (mostly) really enjoyable and iconic. It's really sad how pretty much all of the good Invasion mappers dipped and there haven't been notable releases in many years since. :(

Can't find Armageddon or AFTSDM...

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Something magical happens when you add a bunch of well-thought-out customization to an established game like Doom, and you make that new content standard. All of a sudden, that custom content and functionality is no longer "custom", and you can rely on it being consistently present, which gives you a more powerful experience. This works especially well when the new content is made generic enough to be widely usable in many contexts. Good stuff.

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19 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Basically, it became "Carnevil VS Everyone Else" as far as the development team/staff side of things was concerned. I was a Carnevil sycophant as a kid because he had given me help personally with mapping/servers/etc during my earliest years in the community, so much so that for a long time I refused to acknowledge that he was the one who had fucked up when things first went sour in early 2012, leading to the great Skulltag downfall...

I got a kick out of reading your post! (I had to look up sycophant :)

 

I vaguely remember a little bit of the Carn thing. I think sometimes people let little things build up, to the point where that one proverbial straw turns them apeshit: angry, paranoid, resentful. It doesn't even have to make sense at that stage. Damn shame.

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Even I still use ST from this very day. Outdated ye, but I've grew up with that port. I've first gotten it back in 2011 I believe

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The only advantage of Skulltag these days is the name, it's 100 times better and euphonious than Zand...what? The name was created in a hurry.

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7 hours ago, Yuki Senmatsu said:

Even I still use ST from this very day. Outdated ye, but I've grew up with that port. I've first gotten it back in 2011 I believe

To me, nothing is outdated. If you like something, that's a good thing. Enjoy what you like and be happy! :D

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