So what is the best game on the build engine you think?

[KVELLER]

23 minutes ago, crazyflyingdonut said:

At the time I am writing this, I have not played Shadow Warrior yet (I can't seem to figure out which version I should get... I want the one with the most content).

 

Classic Redux comes with both expansions, which AFAIK is all of the official extra content released for the game.

[crazyflyingdonut]

1 minute ago, KVELLER said:

 

Classic Redux comes with both expansions, which AFAIK is all of the official extra content released for the game.

 

Yeah I don't have $9.99 right now, guess I'll have to wait.

[Pegg]

Am jealous of people who never got to play Blood :P. It should definitely have a spot on their play list.

 

I wouldn't care about getting all the expansions for shadow warrior. They aren't that good and you'll probably get bored before touching them. 

[Doom Factory]

Definetly blood. Shadow warrior is pretty good too. Kinda prefer them over duke tbh

[Gez]

1 hour ago, crazyflyingdonut said:

 

Yeah I don't have $9.99 right now, guess I'll have to wait.

https://www.gog.com/game/shadow_warrior_complete

 

Free, both expansions.

 

Redux features an enhanced source port with remastered graphics, but not more content.

[crazyflyingdonut]

12 minutes ago, Gez said:

https://www.gog.com/game/shadow_warrior_complete

 

Free, both expansions.

 

Redux features an enhanced source port with remastered graphics, but not more content.

Thank you very much for the information, I really appreciate it.

[Avoozl]

You can already get a source port for Shadow Warrior called SWP, you don't really need to buy the Redux and the source port has more features.

 

http://swcentral.weebly.com/uploads/5/8/5/2/5852925/swp430.zip

 

The graphics on the Redux look exactly the same they just have a filter applied.

[Xaser]

Got my fingers crossed that on release day, my answer will change from "Blood" to "Ion Maiden". The demo's gotten my hopes up.

[Master O]

6 hours ago, Agent6 said:

 

Unfortunately that's highly unlikely, at this point Blood is pretty much dead as a franchise. It was released at a bad time when true 3D games started coming out and were rapidly becoming popular so it was never popular to begin with, in addition to the source code never seeing the light of day.

 

Devolver Digital tried at some point to purchase the rights, but Atari asked for so much money they said it was not worth it. It's a shame, the franchise deserved so much more, but its future looks very dark, just like Duke's...

 

But, on a somewhat positive note, Jace Hall teased something related to Blood at some point, though I wouldn't hold my breath:

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/JaceHall/status/751611945292222464

 

I've always wondered why fans of old school FPSes haven't tried raising the money to wrestle Blood's away from Atari and WB?  Is it that people don't have the time, inclination, and money to even attempt it?

[MrDeAD1313]

2 hours ago, Xaser said:

Got my fingers crossed that on release day, my answer will change from "Blood" to "Ion Maiden". The demo's gotten my hopes up.

Im in love with that demo myself. Played through it 3 times already and now I'm just waiting for the full release. They've done a really great job with it so far!

 

But, I feel Blood is 'currently' the best build engine game hands down. I love everything about that game. But it's all a matter of personal taste I suppose :D

[Jello]

Blood. It does get lazy in the last episode, but I always preferred the cultish horror atmosphere of it to Shadow Warrior and Duke Nukem 3D. And I really prefer Caleb's dark sense of humor to Lo Wang's over the top Chinese cliche, and Duke Nukem's over the top machismo personality.

 

However, ION Maiden, when it's released holds quite a bit of promise. I've played through the demo quite a few times and it's fun. What they've done with the build engine is amazing as far as complexity; however I don't see Shelly as being as memorable as Caleb, and I don't see the robo-cultists being as memorable as anything from Blood. It's probably going to end up being better than Duke 3D and Shadow Warrior, but I don't think it'll be as good as Blood. Because nothing beats setting a zombie on fire with a flare gun for the first time, and then knocking its head around with a pitchfork in a cemetery.

[Gez]

9 hours ago, Master O said:

 

I've always wondered why fans of old school FPSes haven't tried raising the money to wrestle Blood's away from Atari and WB?  Is it that people don't have the time, inclination, and money to even attempt it?

I've heard that the amount the rightsholder wanted was "unreasonable". If so, it's probably far out of reach of crowdfunding efforts.

[KVELLER]

13 hours ago, Gez said:

Redux features an enhanced source port with remastered graphics, but not more content.

 

I guess the Steam version is the one that comes with the expansions then, because I bought it and I did get them.

 

From the Steam store page:

 

Quote

Includes Shadow Warrior Classic Redux (OpenGL), two expansion packs - Wanton Destruction and Twin Dragon (OpenGL), and the original Shadow Warrior (DOSBox).

 

 

10 hours ago, Avoozl said:

You can already get a source port for Shadow Warrior called SWP, you don't really need to buy the Redux and the source port has more features.

 

Last time I played with that source port I got my saves corrupted, but maybe that's just a problem on a specific version?

 

10 hours ago, Avoozl said:

The graphics on the Redux look exactly the same they just have a filter applied.

 

Yes, but the filter is optional (thankfully).

[Avoozl]

43 minutes ago, KVELLER said:

Last time I played with that source port I got my saves corrupted, but maybe that's just a problem on a specific version?

Yeah, I think it was either 4.3.1 or 4.3.2, but as I heard those versions do nothing to update the engine in any meaningful way so they can be avoided due to their save bug, 4.3.0 works fine for me. However I hear that there is a new version 4.3.3 which another developer from the Duke4 forums is working on as ProASM has quit working on it. However there may also be a sound bug on later OSes which can be fixed by setting windows 7 compatibility mode.

Edited September 6, 2018 by Avoozl

[Gez]

39 minutes ago, KVELLER said:

 

I guess the Steam version is the one that comes with the expansions then, because I bought it and I did get them.

Both Redux and Complete come with both expansions, which means that Redux doesn't have more content than Complete.

 

In fact, let's try to make this clear:

https://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Shadow_Warrior_(1997)#Version_differences

 

Classic on Steam:

• Free
• Comes with prototypes
• No expansions

Classic Complete on GOG:

• Free
• Comes with expansions
• No prototypes

Classic Redux on Steam and/or GOG:

• Costs 10 bux
• Comes with expansions
• Remastered (upfiltered) graphics and advanced source ports

 

So basically, get it for free on GOG to have the full game, get it for free on Steam if you want to look at the game prototypes. Source ports can be downloaded for free elsewhere, so there's no real reason to get Redux.

[Master O]

2 hours ago, Gez said:

I've heard that the amount the rightsholder wanted was "unreasonable". If so, it's probably far out of reach of crowdfunding efforts.

 

You don't know if you don't try, though.   

[Avoozl]

On 9/6/2018 at 6:20 PM, Jello said:

nothing beats setting a zombie on fire with a flare gun for the first time, and then knocking its head around with a pitchfork in a cemetery.

Not to mention the screams the cultists make when they die, they can be hilarious.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Avoozl

[Ichor]

16 hours ago, Pegg said:

Am jealous of people who never got to play Blood :P. It should definitely have a spot on their play list.

 

I wouldn't care about getting all the expansions for shadow warrior. They aren't that good and you'll probably get bored before touching them. 

But do get the expansions for Blood, because those are quite good. I especially liked many of the maps from Cryptic Passage.

[Avoozl]

The only real issue I find with Blood is how there's less CD music tracks than the midi music tracks, many more maps re-use the same music track while on CD music mode, it's funny how Shadow Warrior is the opposite of this with more CD tracks than midi tracks.

 

Also with some tracks I prefer them in their CD audio version while with others I prefer them in their midi version.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Avoozl

[Doomkid]

Looks like Blood hast most people’s votes, it seems to have a solid aesthetic and gameplay but it bored me so much I could never spend more than 30-40 minutes playing at a time before fatigue sets in. It just doesn’t appeal to me.

 

Duke is fun and fast and the arsenal, monsters and texturing are all just better, imo. Duke is more fun as a protagonist, the maps are more fun to explore, the Duke enemies are more balanced, the music is pretty darn good.. It all just stacks in Duke’s favour for me personally. The game has a much more appealing vibe going on.

[dt_]

Can we get a shout out for Redneck Rampage, you could ride motorbikes and get pissed up!

[KVELLER]

On 9/8/2018 at 12:12 AM, dt_ said:

Can we get a shout out for Redneck Rampage, you could ride motorbikes and get pissed up!

 

If it wasn't for the fact that it managed to have worse balancing than Blood, I'd probably like it quite a bit.

[amackert]

I ran through Blood the other week, tried Shadow Warrior for a bit immediately after and then went through the first episode of Duke after that. I thought I'd enjoy Blood the most, but it's got some major issues--way too much key hunting (SIX of them, seriously?!), weird hit detection issues, long, overly drawn out maps and an overly high percentage of hit-scan enemies. Shadow Warrior felt a bit on the unpolished side of things and the difficulty was even more brutal than Blood (I didn't even think that was possible). Duke felt like the DOOM of the bunch--very well made, lots of polish, and it has the smoothest gameplay and the collision detection works great. I still need to go through the rest of the episodes, but after playing through Blood I'm leaning towards Duke being the best of those three. I still need to put more time into Shadow Warrior but based on the first few maps I've played, I'm not holding my breath on that one. We'll see though. Wish I could track down a copy of Power Slave to see how that stacks up to the others.

[Dear Hoplite]

Only played Duke, but I'm picking up Blood amd Shadow Warrior later and seriously looking at ION Maiden

[seed]

7 hours ago, amackert said:

Shadow Warrior felt a bit on the unpolished side of things and the difficulty was even more brutal than Blood (I didn't even think that was possible).

 

Wait until an invisible ninja gets a good shot when you have your guard down, those bastards kill you instantly (unless you have 200 health and 200 armor if I'm not mistaken).

 

The enemies who use Uzi are in general the nastiest in SW since they deal a fuckload of damage especially on higher difficulties, Blood's Cultists are a joke in comparison. But do give it a shot, it might have a rough start but it has some amazing looking and fun levels later on, it'd be a shame to quit so quickly.

[Pegg]

Both Shadow Warrior and Blood are way harder than Doom. Going in blind on higher difficulties is just asking the games to dish out pain.

 

[MeetyourUnmaker]

17 hours ago, amackert said:

I ran through Blood the other week, tried Shadow Warrior for a bit immediately after and then went through the first episode of Duke after that. I thought I'd enjoy Blood the most, but it's got some major issues--way too much key hunting (SIX of them, seriously?!), weird hit detection issues, long, overly drawn out maps and an overly high percentage of hit-scan enemies. Shadow Warrior felt a bit on the unpolished side of things and the difficulty was even more brutal than Blood (I didn't even think that was possible). Duke felt like the DOOM of the bunch--very well made, lots of polish, and it has the smoothest gameplay and the collision detection works great. I still need to go through the rest of the episodes, but after playing through Blood I'm leaning towards Duke being the best of those three. I still need to put more time into Shadow Warrior but based on the first few maps I've played, I'm not holding my breath on that one. We'll see though. Wish I could track down a copy of Power Slave to see how that stacks up to the others.

 

The medium difficulty in Blood is meant to be equal to Ultra Violence difficulty in Doom actually.

[Pegg]

Even that is harder than Ultra-Violence in some areas. Blood is just absolutely brutal above the 2nd difficulty, yet it is still perfectly doable even on extra-crispy. 

[amackert]

7 hours ago, MeetyourUnmaker said:

 

The medium difficulty in Blood is meant to be equal to Ultra Violence difficulty in Doom actually.

 

Indeed. That's the difficulty I ended up having to select. The run went pretty smooth there actually and it felt more like UV on DOOM, which I'm very comfortable with. After it was over I thought I'd be good to try the first episode on the fourth difficulty. Nope. Got screwed in the rear by level 5 or so.

 

6 hours ago, Pegg said:

Even that is harder than Ultra-Violence in some areas. Blood is just absolutely brutal above the 2nd difficulty, yet it is still perfectly doable even on extra-crispy. 

 

Personally I didn't have an issue on the third difficulty, it seemed about on par with DOOM's UV. The maps on the other hand were a lot more confusing and I ended up running around in circles more than anything. Good times, I guess?

[Impie]

I'll let this speak for itself.