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TakenStew22

"It's too cartoony"

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And I agree with @EtherBot that realistic designs clash a bit with heavily stylized designs. It's not as easy to do this with hyper-detailed 3D models! But the overall look is consistent, even if the physiology of the characters isn't. I think that's what important, is broad consistency, which "Eternal" has.

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6 hours ago, GoatLord said:

I disagree. The cyberdemon has giant clunky arms and legs, and a massively wide jaw. Those are classic cartoon proportions. The original has a more or less humanoid (albeit very muscular) form.

I remember someone here Photoshopped the Jaw of the Cyberdemon to shrink its proportion, it did look notably more sinister and less cartoony for that minor change. I wish id followed that design.

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13 hours ago, tempdecal.wad said:

It looks goofy, but maybe it will look fine in action.

 

archie.png

 

Perfection.

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Cyberdemon face should be base on bull instead of moose. Same goes for Hell knight he was goat no alien. That are only two changes i wanted to see in new DE.

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18 minutes ago, chemo said:

 

I like the new designs for the basic zombies because while yeah, they don't look all that menacing, I think it's fitting since they're meant to be the most weak and frail enemies in the roster. Yet, aspects such as the pentagrams carved into their foreheads and their malnourished, skinny appearances give them a grotesque edge, giving an insight into the suffering they've possibly gone through (also, they're a nice Iron Maiden reference).

 

 

Even taking into account the technical limitations of the time, the monster designs of OG DOOM still strike me as leaning more towards a stylized look rather than trying to be all gritty and realistic.

 

However, I do think that the exact original designs would look outdated in the new game, but I feel that Id made enough adjustments to them in Eternal so that they don't look out of place while still being faithful. For comparisons sake, I'll bring up the Arachnotron and Pain Elemental as you mentioned as examples;

 

Arach1993vs2019.png.426c130b3ea34ece58bc582eef04c19d.pngPE1993vs2019.png.3b2ec61ccf62270d7c1b012b52eec6f0.png

 

The Arachnotrons and Pain Elementals in classic DOOM look amateurish or even laughable by today's standards. In Eternal, the Arachnotron was given more fleshy, graphic detail in its organic bits, has a more horrific facial structure, and its robotic parts look high-tech and professional yet give off a bit of an uncanny, hellish vibe. For the Pain Elemental, he was given longer and more muscular arms, jaws that unhinge not only horizontally, but also vertically, with rows of sharp, prominent fangs, additional detail on its forehead, and a more prominent pupil that gives it a menacing stare.

 

Yes, obviously they're stylized, but what's stopping them from looking "sinister"?

 

 

This trend doesn't necessarily dictate the kind of direction Id goes with in all their games considering that this is all spreads across multiple IPs and these titles you've mentioned come from a time when Id's games were basically glorified tech demos. Nowadays, while Id Software are still some of the biggest tech guys in the industry, they wish to make fun games first and foremost, if you know what I mean. Not to mention, Quake 3 was Id's most technologically advanced game at release, yet is one of their more over-the-top and silly ones.

 

 

The problem I have with these designs is that they make the Mancubus look like a creature in pure, withering agony rather than one in bloodthirsty rage.

 

mancubus1994.png.9439015d97f1c0d8904811632f2ea493.png

 

When I look at this guy's expression, I can tell how much he's thinking of wanting to bite my face off, not how much he's thinking of wanting to be put out of his misery.

 

mancubus2019.png.a2ad1b2c36bf59c0627931f7cfdd4f93.png

 

His new version has the exact same energy IMO. To be honest, a problem I had with DOOM 2016's Mancubus and Cacodemon designs in particular is that they don't really look they want to be in the fight. Obviously, for me that's been solved with the Mancubus here, but also the Cacodemon now seems to grin more often and looks a lot more enthusiastic about wanting to have the Slayer for lunch

 

3cacos.png.b7059bf634b88b71eea9437c862c83dd.png

 

 

Great post! I 100% agree.

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8 hours ago, chemo said:

The problem I have with these designs is that they make the Mancubus look like a creature in pure, withering agony rather than one in bloodthirsty rage.

 

That's kind of where I always thought this creature should go when transitioning into photorealistic graphics - though I don't see it as they wanting me to put them out of their misery. More that they're unpredictable killing machines precisely because they're in constant agony. Kevin Cloud said in the Noclip series that he considers both D3 Pinky and D4 Pinky to be valid reinterpretations of the original monster. I disagree about the D4 version because I think it's one of the worst designs ever in any id game but I do share his sentiment.


I think in the grand scheme of things there are different ways you can approach reintroduction of such ancient designs. I personally think that DOOM should lean more into the grotesque / disturbing direction - that's how I have always perceived it. But even though I largely disagree with the current direction I cannot objectively say it's completely invalid. It feels lazy to me, not gritty enough and not serious enough but it is a direction that is still valid for DOOM. Part of the reason is that I'm all for being surprised and I vastly prefer designs that capture the spirit of a creature rather than purely its physicality.


DOOM Eternal in terms of monster designs seems to be more about nostalgia-pandering which I just don't like. I'd much rather have a monster that makes me say "THAT's a new Mancubus? Cool!". But that's not a popular approach. I guess most people just want something that's extremely faithful to what they already know. It's the same with music. A lot of people want a band to do the same thing over and over. But I've never been on that side of an argument.

 

As for specific designs, the new Arachnotron looks cool, though it looks way more menacing in the CGI teaser than in-game but that Pain Elemental is a complete disgrace in my opinion. They should have just used the D64 version.

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10 hours ago, chemo said:

 

Arach1993vs2019.png.426c130b3ea34ece58bc582eef04c19d.png

 

The Arachnotrons and Pain Elementals in classic DOOM look amateurish or even laughable by today's standards. In Eternal, the Arachnotron was given more fleshy, graphic detail in its organic bits, has a more horrific facial structure, and its robotic parts look high-tech and professional yet give off a bit of an uncanny, hellish vibe. For the Pain Elemental, he was given longer and more muscular arms, jaws that unhinge not only horizontally, but also vertically, with rows of sharp, prominent fangs, additional detail on its forehead, and a more prominent pupil that gives it a menacing stare.

 

Yes, obviously they're stylized, but what's stopping them from looking "sinister"?

 

Talking about the Arachnotrons, I'm not sure they looked at classic Doom when they recreated them. Their design in Eternal is much closer to their appearance in Doom 64:

 

Sshot_arachnotron64.png

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I honestly love how it's looking, the colorful style of the game really brings me back to Classic Doom, and it's feeling great.

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Well, classic Doom was also a very colorful game, all things considered. Quite unlike Quake which followed it, hehe. 

It's not cartoony, but it can sometimes be grotesque and goofy. But Doom has always been about ultraviolent fun, to be honest. Classic Doom was also about terror and suspense, and could execute either - from slaughter maps to the objectively easy but still pulse-pounding maze of for example E1M2 etc. I can only hope Eternal matches Classic Doom in this regard, as D2016 kinda missed dark mazes a little bit IMO.

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Thing is that monsters can't look realistic since they are not real. In original Doom they looked cool, because 2D sprites are much easier to draw than 3D model to create. Original Doom monsters looks best to me, Doom 3 was ok, but already weird. In Doom 2016-Eternal they look very funny and out of place to me.

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19 minutes ago, Rimantas said:

Thing is that monsters can't look realistic since they are not real.

 

Anything can look believable if enough effort is put into it.

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og doom was a stylized pixel art depection of a fantastic scenario (as opposed to a realistic depection of actual events). imho this allows the audience to read into the material and flesh it out to their hearts content. for some people the experience became more sinister and dark because of this. and so that is what they are looking for in a sequel. for others the premise was cheesy fun, and so that is what they are looking for.

 

it all comes down to different people liking doom for different reasons. we do all agree that doom is awesome though.

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On 12/21/2018 at 5:15 PM, chemo said:

The problem I have with these designs is that they make the Mancubus look like a creature in pure, withering agony rather than one in bloodthirsty rage.

 

mancubus1994.png.9439015d97f1c0d8904811632f2ea493.png

 

Lost souls should be an exception to that. All the other enemies should look like they want to tear you apart.

 

 

 

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On 12/22/2018 at 3:26 AM, Agent6 said:

 

Talking about the Arachnotrons, I'm not sure they looked at classic Doom when they recreated them. Their design in Eternal is much closer to their appearance in Doom 64

 

I think the biggest source of inspiration for designing the arachnotron was the Doom 2016 spiderdemon. It looks basically like a miniature version of that and even includes a similar secondary attack where it draws itself up and launches bombs all around.

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Not sure how I feel about the Arachnotron having its main gun on top of its head.  I guess that would be more practical though.

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Honestly I love Doom Eternal's artstyle, it looks like some 90s edgelord's notebook doodles come to life, which is what classic Doom's style reminds me of as well. It fits the ridiculous B-movie horror/action style perfectly.

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I like the "soft", "cartoony" look personally. Why do things always have to be so dark and grim? I would prefer a more cartoony, less serious art style tbh.

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