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TakenStew22

"It's too cartoony"

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I'm reminded of a great lecture I watched about what not to say when pitching your game to a studio. One of those faux pas was to justify a particular feature (or lack thereof) by virtue of realism. It's not a good rationale becsuse, outside of highly specific sim games, most gamers don't care about realism on a deep level.

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On 1/29/2019 at 9:10 AM, GoatLord said:

...most gamers don't care about realism on a deep level.

agree 100%. its more about whats cool or exciting, a word like visceral comes to mind.

 

for example look at the new quake 1.5 beta. still throwbacky as hell, but with more shit happening faster on screen, and mostly maintaining that og quake 1 vibe. sucks me right in. or ion maiden, super fun to look at. 

 

its all pretty subjective though. so id say hey, if youre an artist then create what you are inspired to create. like minded people will appreciate it. 

 

trying to figure out what one thing is best and only do that is a soulless, conformist, corporate profit driven behavior that should be avoided, imho. 

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the chasing of realism in scenarios and characters is actually what gets me really bored.

we already had a Doom impact to that with Doom 3, so I'm glad that Doom Eternal looks "cartoonish". it's what the game used to be back in the days and I'm glad they added back that fast pace rhythm to the gameplay where you have no time to rest!

 

what I'm not very feeling is the lack of complexity/difficulty in killing enemies... the game has more of a Quake 3 Arena style from what I've seen from the trailers, and they focused on surrounding the player with plenty enemies all around to add difficulty to the battle, therefore killing a Pain Elemental or a Baron of Hell will take less than what it took in the classic game, 'cause the player can't bother to waste that much time killing one enemy when there are plenty others all around.

I hope they're saving that complexity with the introduction of new enemies, or making some of the already known ones stronger to defeat.

what made the classic game dope was the competitivity you had to gather during the battles, and if all the balling is gonna revolve in jumping around all over the maps, dodge fireballs and collect plenty frags, that's something I already experienced in games like Q3A.

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The Doom 3 monster designs are fantastic, not realistic. It's not just a matter of the level of realism in game.

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I think, by realism, they mean Doom 3's monsters don't stick out as much. You could argue they're more "logical" in their designs than Doom 2016 and Eternal's designs are. The issue is that it makes them more dull and generic. Sure, the Doom 3 Pinky may make more sense than the Doom 2016's that's too top heavy to keep its head off the ground half the time but that gives the 2016 Pinky personality, and also does a good job instilling that chaotic charm that Doom's demons have been known to have. After all, as is series tradition, they'll turn on each other over a stray shot, Doom's Hell is rightfully portrayed as a chaotic mess, it shouldn't have to make logical sense.

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Do people really hate Doom 3's monster designs that much? I thought they all looked fine and genuinely creepy at times, well except Lost souls and Cacodemons, those just looked stupid.

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@tempdecal.wad I share your opinion.

 

Most of the monster designs were very adequate for that particular game. I found the pinky and Hell Knight unique and intimidating. What keeps to mind is just how repetitive monster encounters are. But that's digressing and an entirely different discusion done many times before.

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I also find most monster redesigns in D3 to be good, except for the Cacodemon and Lost Soul, like wtf...

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11 hours ago, tempdecal.wad said:

Do people really hate Doom 3's monster designs that much? 

I really liked all monsters, except the Arch-Ville and the Cacodemon. Doom 3s monster design was very "fleshy", it really emphasized Doom 3s universal rendering approach. Maybe I should replay the game?

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A lot of them are good if not great. In particular I like the possessed, demon, cherub, mancubus, hell knight, and maggot, which look threatening and memorable. The rest range from missed opportunities (lost soul, imp) to underwhelming (cyberdemon) to just plain boring (trite). I get the feeling that modern interpretations of the less stellar designs could make them more aesthetic.

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I really like the Revenant, Archvile and the Mancubus. Doom 2016's Mancubus looks like a Quake strogg. At least they redesigned it for Eternal.

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I like the Doom 3's Cyberdemon more than 2016s version. Remembering the Cherub, I found that a little out of place, like it belongs to another game with Demons.

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On 2/10/2019 at 3:18 AM, tempdecal.wad said:

Do people really hate Doom 3's monster designs that much? I thought they all looked fine and genuinely creepy at times, well except Lost souls and Cacodemons, those just looked stupid.

 

It's not that we "hate" D3's monster designs, it's just that we like Classic Doom and Doom 2016/Eternal 's designs much better.

 

And yes, D3's designs were a tad generic.

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I was surprisingly pleased with Doom 4's monster designs, except for the Hell Guards. They looked like something straight out of a fantasy RPG, especially with the whole giant mace and magical staff they were carrying. One of the things that I believe is an integral part of the overall Doom aesthetic, that keeps it in the realm of sci-fi, is that demons do not simply "carry" weapons. They either discharge energy from their hands or have high-tech implants/augmentation. Possessed soldiers are obviously an exception, but if you gave a Hell Knight an axe in each hand or a warhammer to the Baron, it would be completely out of place.

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I thought Pinky looked like an enemy borrowed straight from Warcraft, but nowadays I don't mind it very much. I guess I got used to it bumping into walls and tripping in cute ways.

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I thought Doom 3 had some interesting ideas for monsters as if they thought more outside the box.

Problem is they go too far away from feeling like they came out of Doom, so a few adjustments like using better colors or adding some elements like spikes or horns could at least make them feel more "demonic".

Otherwise, they feel more like aliens than demons.

Which is funny considering how the D4 Mancubus might as well be the most different out of all Mancs.

 

The most cartoonish Doom has been was in the RPG phone games and even then, their enemies had neat concepts that could fit both the classic Doom's and even later iterations of the series.

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