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Nancsi

A shorter and better Doom II

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I decided to create my own shorter, 15 (14+1) map version of Doom II. I was trying to do a 8+1 classic formula, but it was too short.

 

What I always thought of Doom II, that it started quite well (up to Dead Simple) with the nice starport settings, and also the last levels were really good in the hell (Map27 and Map28 had always been my favourite Petersen maps). The problem has always been the long and ugly middle section (Map8-Map25), where the worst levels can be found (including the Wolf3D maps). I don't buy the city theme at all, and that part of the game severly lacked quality and good aesthetics.

 

Another interesting thing that I always wondered why O of Destruction, Tenements and Abandoned Mines weren't packed together, since they have the same style like McGees maps from Underhalls to Crusher.

 

With that said, here is my ideal levelorder:

 

1. Entryway (not a good map, but iconic in its own way, and music is fantastic... also Underhalls doesn't fit for a starter map)

2. Underhalls

3. The Gauntlet

4. The Focus

5. The Waste Tunnels

6. The Crusher

7. Dead Simple

8. O of Destruction (with one secret serving as a secret exit)

9. Tenements (with a modified sky)

10. The Abandoned mines

11. Monster Condo

12. The Spirit World

13. The Living End

14. Icon of Sin (not a fan again, but TLE is not a good map for ending)

15. Gotcha! (the ideal secret level)

 

What would be your shorter and better version of Doom II?

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Disagree on city section. Without city maps Doom2 is partially looking like substandard spinoff of Doom1.

Agreed on Wolf3D maps.

Also most of the first maps of Doom2 is quietly poor. On Entryway there are even no obstacles/things like Hangar where tech pillars, lamps and corpses is exists. Though MAP08 is interesting concept in itself.

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Honestly, Doom II is just an enhancement of Doom I with new monsters, weapons etc. It could have worked as an episode 4. But with less marketing value, I agree.

 

Also, while I agree that levels like Underhalls or The Gauntlet are nothing special on their own, as a mini episode, they have a punch. And most agree that The Waste Tunnels and The Crusher are very well crafted endings of this mini episode. Entryway, well I wouldn't miss that, so 14 can be enough instead of 15. :)

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I think you've compiled the breeziest side of Doom 2, maybe missing Inmost Dens, but you've totally left out all trace of filthy weirdness! The Pit, Gotcha and The Factory would be represented in my version of this as the stranger underside of the level set.

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Cluster 1

Underhalls 

The Inmost Dens

The Citadel 

 

Cluster 2

Refueling Base

The Factory

The Pit

 

Cluster 3

Suburbs

The Courtyard

Gotcha! -- The Spider Mastermind gives you a math quiz and if you pass you unlock the bonus cluster.

 

Cluster 4

'O' of Destruction

The Abandoned Mines

The Chasm 

 

Cluster 5

Monster Condo

The Spirit World

The Living End

 

Secret/Bonus Cluster 

Tricks and Traps

Nirvana

Barrels o' Fun

 

All clusters are made of more or less related maps, either in theme or spirit or some underlying gameplay concept. The Citadel is not a map I recall being good, but it fits for this exercise. 

 

 

Edited by rdwpa

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Industrial Zone is fine, but it doesn't fit in my own "episode" aesthetically. Map11, Map17 and Map26 have the same style, while Map15 is something else. And it still use generic boxes for a city, just like Sandy's city maps, just better looking.

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this is my fantasy Doom 2. imagine that the monster encounters were rebalanced to work in this order:

 

Level 1: Entryway

Level 2: Underhalls 

Level 3: The Gantlet

Level 4: Circle of Death

Level 5: The Crusher

Level 6: Refueling Base

Level 7: The Courtyard

Level 8: Tenements

Level 9: The Waste Tunnels

Level 10: The Citadel

Level 11: Barrels o' Fun

Level 12: The Abandoned Mines

Level 13: Monster Condo

Level 14: Industrial Zone 

Level 15: The Inmost Dens

Level 16: The Living End

Level 17: Gotcha!

Level 18: The Spirit World

Level 19: The Chasm

Level 20: Icon of Sin

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Way way too short and removed most of the gimmicky maps even Tricks N Traps. Don't think it would've been a direct upgrade :P. 

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Tricks and Traps is a god-tier map, I’d get it’s removal if it was butt ugly or something but it’s actually pretty cohesive for Doom2 standards. Super fun map, stands out from the pack in a great way.

 

The only maps I could live without are The Factory (zzz), The Courtyard (ehhh), Nirvana (zzz) and The Chasm (kinda fun but even weirder than the rest). If I was to really press it, I could drop The Citadel and Downtown, but anything more and the game would be left without its quirky and fun soul, imo. The Wolf secret maps were cool enough in their time to get a pass but I’ll admit they’re kinda boring.

 

I feel like Gotcha! would make a perfect finale if, instead of being two separate maps, the end just teleported you right into the IoS battle, with supplies given in the final room of course.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Pegg said:

Way way too short and removed most of the gimmicky maps even Tricks N Traps. Don't think it would've been a direct upgrade :P. 

 

I'm quite sensitive to leveldesign, and honestly Map8 is the point when I usually stop playing. There is no art direction, no realism, just gimmicks with a novelty that wear off pretty quickly.

 

With that said I'm not sure how Sandy managed to come up with Monster Condo and Spirit World after his - in my opinion - horrible mess of previous maps in both Doom 1 and Doom 2.

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A 10 map version to keep this utterly pointless thread running. :D

 

1. Dead Simple

2. The Waste Tunnels

3. The Crusher

4. O of Destruction

5. Tenements

6. The Abandoned Mines

7. Monster Condo

8. The Spirit World

9. The Living End

10. Gotcha! (secret)

 

Their is no way I can remove any from this to make a classic 9 level version. Not a huge fan of Gotcha, but it has to stay for its iconic status as a secret map, and the rest are great maps. We need at least 2 McGee and 2 Petersen contiuosly in style, and Romero's ones in continuous stlye too. And Dead Simple would be an interesting starter with "Running from Evil" music.

 

Someone mentioned The Inmost Dens earlier. That's a McGee map alright, but wow, I dislike that. The whole map is just that one brown texture, full of chaingunners, and the biggest problem: layout is confusing, and somehow I can't learn it. The other McGee "The Catacombs" is another Chaingunner level, and that one honestly looks like a Sandy map.

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I think most of Doom 2 maps are actually pretty good. If I had to remove some that are not that good, that would be my maplist:

 

EP1:

 

Level 1: Entryway

Level 2: Underhalls

Level 3: The Focus

Level 4: The Waste Tunnels

Level 5: The Crusher

Level 6: Dead Simple

Level 7: Tricks and Traps

Level 8: The Pit

Level 9: Refueling Base

Level 10: 'O' of Destruction!1

 

EP2:

 

Level 11: The Factory
Level 12: Industrial Zone (Exit to secret level)

Level 13: The Inmost Dens

Level 14: Suburbs

Level 15: Tenements

Level 16: The Courtyard
Level 17: The Citadel
Level 18: The Catacombs
Level 19: The Abandoned Mines
Level 20: Gotcha!

 

EP3:

 

Level 21: Bloodfalls
Level 22: Monster Condo
Level 23: The Spirit World
Level 24: The Living End


Level 25: A new boss level instead of the boring Icon of Sin

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Most of the City maps were average at most

The Factory, Inner most dens and, Downtown where the ones that I thought were pretty good.

What I liked the most about Doom 2 through were the Gimmick Maps, they are just there for strictly Gameplay which Doom excels at. It was able to mix "Story" levels and gimmick levels well.

 

Art direction and realism be dammed, I just want fun maps.

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Get rid of Industrial Zone, The Abandoned Mines, and Icon Of Sin and it would be perfect Doom 2. 

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11 hours ago, Maser said:

Get rid of Industrial Zone, The Abandoned Mines, and Icon Of Sin and it would be perfect Doom 2. 

 

Why exactly those two?

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After a little bit of thought, these would be my picks:

 

LEVEL01: new beginning map
LEVEL02: (MAP02) Underhalls
LEVEL03: (MAP03) Gantlet
LEVEL04: (MAP04) The Focus
LEVEL05: (MAP05) The Waste Tunnels
LEVEL06: (MAP06) The Crusher
LEVEL07: (MAP11) Circle Of Death
LEVEL08: (MAP14) The Inmost Dens
LEVEL09: (MAP15) Industrial Zone
LEVEL10: (MAP17) Tenements
LEVEL11: (MAP22) The Catacombs
LEVEL12: (MAP24) The Chasm
LEVEL13: (MAP29) The Living End
LEVEL14: new ending map

 

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On 9/11/2018 at 10:35 AM, Xaser said:

 


Episode 1: "The Infested Starport"
E1M1: Entryway
E1M2: Underhalls
E1M3: The Gantlet
E1M4: The Focus
E1M5: The Waste Tunnels
E1M6: The Crusher (exit to secret level)
E1M7: Dead Simple
E1M8: Refueling Base
E1M9: Circle of Death
E1M0: Tricks and Traps (secret level)

Episode 2: "Last Man on Earth"
E2M1: The Pit
E2M2: The Factory
E2M3: Downtown
E2M4: Tenements
E2M5: Industrial Zone (exit to secret level)
E2M6: Suburbs
E2M7: The Abandoned Mines
E2M8: The Citadel
E2M9: Gotcha!
E2M0: The Courtyard (secret level)

Episode 3: "Corruption"
E3M1: Nirvana
E3M2: The Catacombs
E3M3: The Inmost Dens
E3M4: The Chasm (exit to secret level)
E3M5: Bloodfalls
E3M6: Monster Condo
E3M7: The Spirit World
E3M8: The Living End
E3M9: Icon of Sin
E3M0: Barrels o' Fun (secret level)

 

I smell community project potential.

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Map01: Entryway

Map02: Underhalls

Map03: The Crusher

Map04: Dead Simple

Map05: Suburbs

Map06: The Catacombs (Secret exit)

Map07: Barrels o' Fun

Map08: The Spirit World

Map09: The Living End

Map10: Icon of Sin

Map11: Bloodfalls (Secret mission)

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18 minutes ago, Phoby said:

Map01: Entryway

Map02: Underhalls

Map03: The Crusher

Map04: Dead Simple

Map05: Suburbs

Map06: The Catacombs (Secret exit)

Map07: Barrels o' Fun

Map08: The Spirit World

Map09: The Living End

Map10: Icon of Sin

Map11: Bloodfalls (Secret mission)

Wow, are most of Doom 2's maps really that bad for alot of people?

 

The only ones I didn't really like were Map 9 and 10.

Edited by TakenStew22

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Honestly, in terms of aesthetics, most levels between Map8 and Map25 didn't age too well. But that can also be said about UDoom E2-E3.

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