Nancsi Posted September 10, 2018 I decided to create my own shorter, 15 (14+1) map version of Doom II. I was trying to do a 8+1 classic formula, but it was too short. What I always thought of Doom II, that it started quite well (up to Dead Simple) with the nice starport settings, and also the last levels were really good in the hell (Map27 and Map28 had always been my favourite Petersen maps). The problem has always been the long and ugly middle section (Map8-Map25), where the worst levels can be found (including the Wolf3D maps). I don't buy the city theme at all, and that part of the game severly lacked quality and good aesthetics. Another interesting thing that I always wondered why O of Destruction, Tenements and Abandoned Mines weren't packed together, since they have the same style like McGees maps from Underhalls to Crusher. With that said, here is my ideal levelorder: 1. Entryway (not a good map, but iconic in its own way, and music is fantastic... also Underhalls doesn't fit for a starter map) 2. Underhalls 3. The Gauntlet 4. The Focus 5. The Waste Tunnels 6. The Crusher 7. Dead Simple 8. O of Destruction (with one secret serving as a secret exit) 9. Tenements (with a modified sky) 10. The Abandoned mines 11. Monster Condo 12. The Spirit World 13. The Living End 14. Icon of Sin (not a fan again, but TLE is not a good map for ending) 15. Gotcha! (the ideal secret level) What would be your shorter and better version of Doom II? 3 Share this post Link to post
riderr3 Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) Disagree on city section. Without city maps Doom2 is partially looking like substandard spinoff of Doom1. Agreed on Wolf3D maps. Also most of the first maps of Doom2 is quietly poor. On Entryway there are even no obstacles/things like Hangar where tech pillars, lamps and corpses is exists. Though MAP08 is interesting concept in itself. 2 Share this post Link to post
Nancsi Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) Honestly, Doom II is just an enhancement of Doom I with new monsters, weapons etc. It could have worked as an episode 4. But with less marketing value, I agree. Also, while I agree that levels like Underhalls or The Gauntlet are nothing special on their own, as a mini episode, they have a punch. And most agree that The Waste Tunnels and The Crusher are very well crafted endings of this mini episode. Entryway, well I wouldn't miss that, so 14 can be enough instead of 15. :) 0 Share this post Link to post
Foodles Posted September 10, 2018 You seem to have missed out the masterpiece that is Nirvana 3 Share this post Link to post
yakfak Posted September 10, 2018 I think you've compiled the breeziest side of Doom 2, maybe missing Inmost Dens, but you've totally left out all trace of filthy weirdness! The Pit, Gotcha and The Factory would be represented in my version of this as the stranger underside of the level set. 3 Share this post Link to post
baja blast rd. Posted September 10, 2018 (edited) Cluster 1 Underhalls The Inmost Dens The Citadel Cluster 2 Refueling Base The Factory The Pit Cluster 3 Suburbs The Courtyard Gotcha! -- The Spider Mastermind gives you a math quiz and if you pass you unlock the bonus cluster. Cluster 4 'O' of Destruction The Abandoned Mines The Chasm Cluster 5 Monster Condo The Spirit World The Living End Secret/Bonus Cluster Tricks and Traps Nirvana Barrels o' Fun All clusters are made of more or less related maps, either in theme or spirit or some underlying gameplay concept. The Citadel is not a map I recall being good, but it fits for this exercise. Edited September 10, 2018 by rdwpa 8 Share this post Link to post
KVELLER Posted September 10, 2018 No love for Industrial Zone? That's one of my favorite Doom 2 maps. 4 Share this post Link to post
Nancsi Posted September 10, 2018 Industrial Zone is fine, but it doesn't fit in my own "episode" aesthetically. Map11, Map17 and Map26 have the same style, while Map15 is something else. And it still use generic boxes for a city, just like Sandy's city maps, just better looking. 0 Share this post Link to post
TakenStew22 Posted September 10, 2018 Doom 2 is honestly my favorite game in the series. I love the big open maps and city levels. 0 Share this post Link to post
ella guro Posted September 11, 2018 this is my fantasy Doom 2. imagine that the monster encounters were rebalanced to work in this order: Level 1: Entryway Level 2: Underhalls Level 3: The Gantlet Level 4: Circle of Death Level 5: The Crusher Level 6: Refueling Base Level 7: The Courtyard Level 8: Tenements Level 9: The Waste Tunnels Level 10: The Citadel Level 11: Barrels o' Fun Level 12: The Abandoned Mines Level 13: Monster Condo Level 14: Industrial Zone Level 15: The Inmost Dens Level 16: The Living End Level 17: Gotcha! Level 18: The Spirit World Level 19: The Chasm Level 20: Icon of Sin 1 Share this post Link to post
Cruduxy Pegg Posted September 11, 2018 Way way too short and removed most of the gimmicky maps even Tricks N Traps. Don't think it would've been a direct upgrade :P. 0 Share this post Link to post
Doomkid Posted September 11, 2018 Tricks and Traps is a god-tier map, I’d get it’s removal if it was butt ugly or something but it’s actually pretty cohesive for Doom2 standards. Super fun map, stands out from the pack in a great way. The only maps I could live without are The Factory (zzz), The Courtyard (ehhh), Nirvana (zzz) and The Chasm (kinda fun but even weirder than the rest). If I was to really press it, I could drop The Citadel and Downtown, but anything more and the game would be left without its quirky and fun soul, imo. The Wolf secret maps were cool enough in their time to get a pass but I’ll admit they’re kinda boring. I feel like Gotcha! would make a perfect finale if, instead of being two separate maps, the end just teleported you right into the IoS battle, with supplies given in the final room of course. 2 Share this post Link to post
wheresthebeef Posted September 11, 2018 I would only take out about five maps total for my perfect Doom II 0 Share this post Link to post
Nancsi Posted September 11, 2018 6 hours ago, Pegg said: Way way too short and removed most of the gimmicky maps even Tricks N Traps. Don't think it would've been a direct upgrade :P. I'm quite sensitive to leveldesign, and honestly Map8 is the point when I usually stop playing. There is no art direction, no realism, just gimmicks with a novelty that wear off pretty quickly. With that said I'm not sure how Sandy managed to come up with Monster Condo and Spirit World after his - in my opinion - horrible mess of previous maps in both Doom 1 and Doom 2. 0 Share this post Link to post
Nancsi Posted September 11, 2018 A 10 map version to keep this utterly pointless thread running. :D 1. Dead Simple 2. The Waste Tunnels 3. The Crusher 4. O of Destruction 5. Tenements 6. The Abandoned Mines 7. Monster Condo 8. The Spirit World 9. The Living End 10. Gotcha! (secret) Their is no way I can remove any from this to make a classic 9 level version. Not a huge fan of Gotcha, but it has to stay for its iconic status as a secret map, and the rest are great maps. We need at least 2 McGee and 2 Petersen contiuosly in style, and Romero's ones in continuous stlye too. And Dead Simple would be an interesting starter with "Running from Evil" music. Someone mentioned The Inmost Dens earlier. That's a McGee map alright, but wow, I dislike that. The whole map is just that one brown texture, full of chaingunners, and the biggest problem: layout is confusing, and somehow I can't learn it. The other McGee "The Catacombs" is another Chaingunner level, and that one honestly looks like a Sandy map. 0 Share this post Link to post
Deadwing Posted September 11, 2018 I think most of Doom 2 maps are actually pretty good. If I had to remove some that are not that good, that would be my maplist: EP1: Level 1: Entryway Level 2: Underhalls Level 3: The Focus Level 4: The Waste Tunnels Level 5: The Crusher Level 6: Dead Simple Level 7: Tricks and Traps Level 8: The Pit Level 9: Refueling Base Level 10: 'O' of Destruction!1 EP2: Level 11: The Factory Level 12: Industrial Zone (Exit to secret level) Level 13: The Inmost Dens Level 14: Suburbs Level 15: Tenements Level 16: The Courtyard Level 17: The Citadel Level 18: The Catacombs Level 19: The Abandoned Mines Level 20: Gotcha! EP3: Level 21: Bloodfalls Level 22: Monster Condo Level 23: The Spirit World Level 24: The Living End Level 25: A new boss level instead of the boring Icon of Sin 0 Share this post Link to post
jazzmaster9 Posted September 11, 2018 Most of the City maps were average at most The Factory, Inner most dens and, Downtown where the ones that I thought were pretty good. What I liked the most about Doom 2 through were the Gimmick Maps, they are just there for strictly Gameplay which Doom excels at. It was able to mix "Story" levels and gimmick levels well. Art direction and realism be dammed, I just want fun maps. 0 Share this post Link to post
Xaser Posted September 11, 2018 (edited) Broke: Cutting out Doom 2's maps to make a shorter game. Woke: Rearranging Doom 2's maps into episodes. Episode 1: "The Infested Starport" E1M1: Entryway E1M2: Underhalls E1M3: The Gantlet E1M4: The Focus E1M5: The Waste Tunnels E1M6: The Crusher (exit to secret level) E1M7: Dead Simple E1M8: Refueling Base E1M9: Circle of Death E1M0: Tricks and Traps (secret level) Episode 2: "Last Man on Earth" E2M1: The Pit E2M2: The Factory E2M3: Downtown E2M4: Tenements E2M5: Industrial Zone (exit to secret level) E2M6: Suburbs E2M7: The Abandoned Mines E2M8: The Citadel E2M9: Gotcha! E2M0: The Courtyard (secret level) Episode 3: "Corruption" E3M1: Nirvana E3M2: The Catacombs E3M3: The Inmost Dens E3M4: The Chasm (exit to secret level) E3M5: Bloodfalls E3M6: Monster Condo E3M7: The Spirit World E3M8: The Living End E3M9: Icon of Sin E3M0: Barrels o' Fun (secret level) There you go. All maps accounted for*, with some slight rearrangement to fit the episodic structure & theme better (e.g. the Mines/Dens swap and bumping Tenemants between Downtown and Industrial Zone so you don't get the two huge city sandboxes back-to-back). I couldn't really think of a great opener for the second episode, so I settled on moving The Pit forward to precede The Factory. Still un-ideal, but it's a thing. Secret levels were chosen by picking the oddest of the oddballs, secret exits on E1/E3 are arbitrary, and the episode names are just stuff I made up after perusing the Doom 2 story texts. We'll also need a couple of music swaps to prevent the same music from playing twice in an episode. Here's an arbitrary suggestion: Circle of Death: D_TENSE The Abandoned Mines: D_DDTBLU The Inmost Dens: D_MESSAG I suppose in this alternate universe, The Pit and Circle of Death would see the most changes from their real-world counterparts, since they'd need to be adjusted a bit to fit as an episode starter/ender, and the temptation to add new boss encounters is there. Sacrilege, I know, but what isn't? :P [*OK, I left the Wolfenstein maps off since they're kinda dumb, but pretend you can unlock them by finding all 3 secret maps or something.] [EDIT] 'Cause I know at least one person's going to ask "Why is Dead Simple not the E1 ender?", it's because that's the big reveal of Arachs and Mancs and it'd suck if their presence was spoiled in earlier maps. But if we're willing to imagine Refueling Base and Circle of Death don't have any, we could totally place Dead Simple at the end and call it a boss map. Problem solved, eh? Edited September 11, 2018 by Xaser : added Dead Simple note 17 Share this post Link to post
Maser Posted September 12, 2018 Get rid of Industrial Zone, The Abandoned Mines, and Icon Of Sin and it would be perfect Doom 2. 0 Share this post Link to post
Nancsi Posted September 13, 2018 11 hours ago, Maser said: Get rid of Industrial Zone, The Abandoned Mines, and Icon Of Sin and it would be perfect Doom 2. Why exactly those two? 0 Share this post Link to post
𝕲𝖗𝖊𝖊𝖓𝖙𝖎𝖌𝖊𝖗1 Posted September 13, 2018 After a little bit of thought, these would be my picks: LEVEL01: new beginning map LEVEL02: (MAP02) Underhalls LEVEL03: (MAP03) Gantlet LEVEL04: (MAP04) The Focus LEVEL05: (MAP05) The Waste Tunnels LEVEL06: (MAP06) The Crusher LEVEL07: (MAP11) Circle Of Death LEVEL08: (MAP14) The Inmost Dens LEVEL09: (MAP15) Industrial Zone LEVEL10: (MAP17) Tenements LEVEL11: (MAP22) The Catacombs LEVEL12: (MAP24) The Chasm LEVEL13: (MAP29) The Living End LEVEL14: new ending map 0 Share this post Link to post
A.Gamma Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) On 9/11/2018 at 10:35 AM, Xaser said: Episode 1: "The Infested Starport" E1M1: Entryway E1M2: Underhalls E1M3: The Gantlet E1M4: The Focus E1M5: The Waste Tunnels E1M6: The Crusher (exit to secret level) E1M7: Dead Simple E1M8: Refueling Base E1M9: Circle of Death E1M0: Tricks and Traps (secret level) Episode 2: "Last Man on Earth" E2M1: The Pit E2M2: The Factory E2M3: Downtown E2M4: Tenements E2M5: Industrial Zone (exit to secret level) E2M6: Suburbs E2M7: The Abandoned Mines E2M8: The Citadel E2M9: Gotcha! E2M0: The Courtyard (secret level) Episode 3: "Corruption" E3M1: Nirvana E3M2: The Catacombs E3M3: The Inmost Dens E3M4: The Chasm (exit to secret level) E3M5: Bloodfalls E3M6: Monster Condo E3M7: The Spirit World E3M8: The Living End E3M9: Icon of Sin E3M0: Barrels o' Fun (secret level) I smell community project potential. 0 Share this post Link to post
Phoby Posted September 14, 2018 Map01: Entryway Map02: Underhalls Map03: The Crusher Map04: Dead Simple Map05: Suburbs Map06: The Catacombs (Secret exit) Map07: Barrels o' Fun Map08: The Spirit World Map09: The Living End Map10: Icon of Sin Map11: Bloodfalls (Secret mission) 0 Share this post Link to post
TakenStew22 Posted September 14, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Phoby said: Map01: Entryway Map02: Underhalls Map03: The Crusher Map04: Dead Simple Map05: Suburbs Map06: The Catacombs (Secret exit) Map07: Barrels o' Fun Map08: The Spirit World Map09: The Living End Map10: Icon of Sin Map11: Bloodfalls (Secret mission) Wow, are most of Doom 2's maps really that bad for alot of people? The only ones I didn't really like were Map 9 and 10. Edited September 14, 2018 by TakenStew22 0 Share this post Link to post
Nancsi Posted September 14, 2018 Honestly, in terms of aesthetics, most levels between Map8 and Map25 didn't age too well. But that can also be said about UDoom E2-E3. 0 Share this post Link to post