What are your think are the worst aspects that can be in a doom level?

[AD_79]

Essentially nothing aside from overuse of doors I guess? Though that doesn't show up much nowadays anyways. Stop complaining so much, people. It's Doom, ease up and have some fun with it for once!

 

On 9/22/2018 at 8:44 AM, NuMetalManiak said:

-the apparent generalization that when someone bitches about an aspect, they will pretend to use it for their next map just to spite them. Fight me you nonce.

 

Ok, just because of this, I'm tempted to use literally everything you listed in your post in one map. In this instance, it's not a matter of pretending, it's simply a matter of me not being lazy and actually making said map, because I will fight you on this.

[Nine Inch Heels]

2 minutes ago, AD_79 said:

Ok, just because of this, I'm tempted to use literally everything you listed in your post in one map. In this instance, it's not a matter of pretending, it's simply a matter of me not being lazy and actually making said map, because I will fight you on this.

I am looking forward to the mass mancubi/cyberdemon clash and the platforming, and also all the other good stuff bad players hate. :P

[Marlamir]

-bosses on inappropriate places.

-Level design or gameplay that is unfair to player

-Revenants

 

Other than that i have no problem with anything else 

[Sparktimus]

2 hours ago, tib_ said:

when people draw oversized furniture with sector geometry

I love that, personally

[42PercentHealth]

1 hour ago, AsianMammoth said:

instant lowering ceilings

Is that even a thing?

[Gaia74]

1 hour ago, Marlamir said:

-bosses on inappropriate places.

What place would be good?

[bioshockfan90]

4 minutes ago, Gaia74 said:

What place would be good?

on the ceiling

[crazyflyingdonut]

3 hours ago, Gaia74 said:

This

god damn I watch a lot of shit on YouTube

[Spectre01]

-Secret weapons that significantly change how difficult a map is if you find them. "Oh yeah, this fight isn't that bad if you didn't miss that secret BFG earlier!"

-Forcing the player to use the shotgun/chaingun for extended periods when fighting high-health enemies in a regular map that's not challenge-oriented.

-Instapops. They just look goofy and I don't like them compared to teleporters or other methods of deploying enemies.

-Cyberdemons on lower elevation where they're mostly harmless unless you do something stupid. i.e. The one in the hub/nukage area in Scythe 2 map18(?). Just fire from above while his rockets hit the ledge you're on.

-Flashing seizure-lights that go from bright to pitch black.

-Excessive use of block lines. i.e. Bloodstain, which I otherwise enjoy.

-Lack of detail, misaligned textures, and low-effort visuals in modern maps. Usually followed by the: "It's a throwback to the 90's man!" or "It's all about the gameplay dude!" excuse.

[42PercentHealth]

4 minutes ago, Spectre01 said:

Secret weapons that significantly change how difficult a map is if you find them

So, the only weapons that can go in secrets are the chainsaw, shotgun, chaingun, and plasma rifle?

 

And in Heretic the only one is the Firemace.

[Spectre01]

Chainsaw works as it's rarely mandatory. I'm just not a huge fan of really powerful secrets in general.

Edit: And I say that while really liking Epic 2 and other maps by Eternal, which are usually full of powerful secrets. :/

[Sparktimus]

If secrets weren't powerful or didn't give you some kind of edge, what'd even be the point of looking for them, other than points/completion?

[Fonze]

The only problem I see with the example is that the way that spectre said it makes it sound like the secret bfg is implied to be the recommended strat, or at least the one most balanced out. Taking that assumption out, a pickup is a pickup; you may as well argue that any bfg is OP.

[Summer Deep]

Episode 1 type maps with lots of Startan textures or very samey techbase stuff. Maze-type maps also.

[Mayomancer]

Confusing maps where progression makes no sense and you spend a lot more time walking in circles than having fun. I'm not talking about complex maps, but maps with poor layout and lack of hints and clues to guide progression and lack of good points of reference to know where you are.

[seed]

9 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I am looking forward to the mass mancubi/cyberdemon clash and the platforming, and also all the other good stuff bad players hate. :P

 

Not enjoying something doesn't necessarily have something to do with being bad at it tho.

[Nine Inch Heels]

21 minutes ago, Agent6 said:

 

Not enjoying something doesn't necessarily have something to do with being bad at it tho.

Not necessarily. Never mind that I know where some of those complaints are coming from, though. ;-)

[Marlamir]

10 hours ago, Gaia74 said:

What place would be good?

Place that is big enough to not block your movements for example.

[Pegleg]

17 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I am looking forward to the mass mancubi/cyberdemon clash and the platforming, and also all the other good stuff

 

I know it was covered by "all the other good stuff," but you really could've specified the instantly appearing chaingunners and revanants that target you while platforming over inescapable pits.

 

17 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

all the other good stuff bad players hate. :P

 

By the way, well-played. I notice you didn't complain on this thread about anything you hated. Well-played.

[muumi]

Levels where you SSG mancubus in cramped corridor, SSG baron in cramped corridor, SSG two revenants in cramped corridor, repeat 20x times and blow up reactor, end.

 

20 hours ago, Marlamir said:

-bosses on inappropriate places.

Like this?

Spoiler

 

[Foodles]

I'm sure this must have been mentioned already here but having to kill enemies like cacodemons, hell knights even pinkies with the regular shotgun is very tedious, just give me an SSG already! Although it's definitely something that I myself have been guilty of in the past.

[Roofi]

On 9/23/2018 at 5:47 PM, Bauul said:

 

Secrets are an interesting one. Personally I strongly dislike them because a) I can never find them in other people's maps and b) it makes balancing my maps extra difficult.

 

I include them because I know other people like hunting for them, but when I load a map and discover there are 0 secrets it always makes me very happy indeed!

 That's weird , I totally think the opposite. Adding secrets in my levels is one of my favourite thing in doom mapping. However I agree that secrets must be interesting to explore and could make the balancing a bit harder but I don't really care , better to have too much than not enough.

 

Secrets incitate me  to explore a lot more closely each corner of the level and know it more in details than if I simply play the level without looking for them.

[Fonze]

4 hours ago, Pegleg said:

I know it was covered by "all the other good stuff," but you really could've specified the instantly appearing chaingunners and revanants that target you while platforming over inescapable pits.

 

Why make them appear instantly when it's so much more fun as a sadistic mapper to multiply the number youd otherwise use with an instapop by 3-5x-or-so and raise them slowly ;D

 

Stated more seriously: the instapop isn't the problem in that situation, as it could be made far more difficult, or more frustrating, with many more monsters rising slowly. In terms of mapping: a mapper can afford to be much more brutal with a slow floor/ceiling reveal than with an instapop, so next time you crazy kids start hating on some instapops remember that they actually are holding the hordes at bay. _{A public service announcement by Fauxnze.}

[NuMetalManiak]

On 9/24/2018 at 6:59 PM, AD_79 said:

Essentially nothing aside from overuse of doors I guess? Though that doesn't show up much nowadays anyways. Stop complaining so much, people. It's Doom, ease up and have some fun with it for once!

 

 

Ok, just because of this, I'm tempted to use literally everything you listed in your post in one map. In this instance, it's not a matter of pretending, it's simply a matter of me not being lazy and actually making said map, because I will fight you on this.

 

On 9/24/2018 at 7:02 PM, Nine Inch Heels said:

I am looking forward to the mass mancubi/cyberdemon clash and the platforming, and also all the other good stuff bad players hate. :P

 

14 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Not necessarily. Never mind that I know where some of those complaints are coming from, though. ;-)

 

14 hours ago, Agent6 said:

 

Not enjoying something doesn't necessarily have something to do with being bad at it tho.

I'm actually not even that bad of a player

[Killer5]

The worst aspects of a map are things which would take away from what your definition of success is for the map.

[mrthejoshmon]

I think that of all things I hate in maps number 1 has to be the air of arrogance that transfers off of certain people into the maps they make.

 

It's hard to describe but you know it when you see it, things like old Glassyman maps come to mind, I usually separate the artist from the art but this is where they intertwine.

 

Best part is that I'm sure these maps I reference are made by people fully aware of themselves, that just makes it worse.

[Sparktimus]

1 hour ago, mrthejoshmon said:

I think that of all things I hate in maps number 1 has to be the air of arrogance that transfers off of certain people into the maps they make.

 

It's hard to describe but you know it when you see it, things like old Glassyman maps come to mind, I usually separate the artist from the art but this is where they intertwine.

 

Best part is that I'm sure these maps I reference are made by people fully aware of themselves, that just makes it worse.

Can you give a clearer example of what makes a map "arrogant?"

Edited September 26, 2018 by Sparktimus

[Chezza]

Any map that drags which could be caused by a plethora of reasons. But for my personal taste I don't want to spam my weapons or fight dragged out repetitive battles. I also want a sense of progress for my efforts.

 

I think I'm anti salughter maps.

[Xaser]

This is probably a truism, but for almost every item listed here, there's some mapper somewhere that's spun that shit into gold.

[mrthejoshmon]

4 hours ago, Sparktimus said:

Can you give a clearer example of what makes a map "arrogant?"

Like I said, it's hard to describe but I'll try (for clarification, when I say "you", I don't mean you):

 

It's more commonly seen in gameplay mods by newbies than it is maps (shining example would be SquishyBrick's "gameplay mod" that was just hundreds of recolours).

 

Two examples would be when something is made that is either clearly low effort garbage but held on a pedestal because the author thinks "I made it, I like it, I put effort in, therefore it is great" (and the author is unwilling to accept that it might not be so "great" and will not listen to your feedback) or where a map is awful to play but was designed with a gimmick that the author believes excuses the poor design, believing that the map is good because they pulled off their bizarre gimmick (albeit at the cost of gameplay, which really should be the primary focus of making a gimmick map not insufferable, it's great that you made your 50 revenant platforming rocket only map made of only Zimmer but it plays like a weekend in a minefield).

 

"Isn't that just confident design though?" I'd say there is a fine line that is (still very noticeable) between confidence and arrogance. Confidence is having faith in your design but arrogance is the exaltation of your design. If you are confident you are willing to further alter it to make it better, more enjoyable because you want that, you want to make good things, if you are arrogant then you dismiss grievances because "that's my style" or "you're just not good enough to handle (insert obscene shit here)" or better yet you then make the grievances worse because you're that much of an insufferable dick ("that's my style XdDDD") and you truly believe what you've made is good and cannot be better and it is everyone else who is wrong.

 

Another arrogant design is making insufferable garbage on purpose just to be dick and then standitting up on your high horse when people turn up and say "well this sucks" as you prattle "well if you don't like it then you are (x)", you literally designed it to be hated and I don't like you (you're devastated I'm sure).

 

"Why Josh, these people are just doing what they enjoy, just let them have fun, nobody cares what you think, truly the arrogant dick is you!" , yes the irony isn't lost on me, however I'd like to me the argument that when you upload anything to be consumed then people will judge it, you are not above that, you should expect that.

Edited September 26, 2018 by mrthejoshmon