DOOM 404 - complevel 2 megawad - now on idgames!

[Grain of Salt]

1 hour ago, Capellan said:

Or you can play it on a lower difficulty.

 

[Capellan]

I have no idea what that means.

 

[Grain of Salt]

You need to look at the frog longer

[baja blast rd.]

I like how off-kilter many of these maps feel. m16 in particular, aka 'alternate reality Hangar', is quite eerie. They remind me of many of NT's NEIS maps in an abstract sense: ugly design from a texturing and geometry standpoint, but they manage to tap into a current of oddness that is pretty fun to experience. Early maps are quite underwhelming, even for the line restrictions, but the ideas get more playful later.

 

On the gameplay front, there definitely is a common motif of roaming. It's amusing to fire a shot and see a dozen monsters casually stroll into the room. Much isn't my cup of tea, a bit too hitscanny, but I'm liking the small-scale slaughtermaps. (Some might bristle at classifying m11 as such, with all of 96 monsters -- but it revolves entirely around managing a big herd of gasbags, so that is a textbook definition.)  

 

In m25, am not sure if this is intended or not, but Leave It In™ imo -- it hardly changes much (just removes the trip upstairs, more or less, which also leaves you armorless).

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[Capellan]

This is what comes of making last minute changes to levels and then not re-testing them thoroughly afterwards.

 

I will actually 'fix' that.  Sorry :)

[Pirx]

13 hours ago, Grain of Salt said:

You need to look at the frog longer

 

 

Men who stare at frogs lol

 

It's still looking at me after an hour

[Grain of Salt]

3 hours ago, Pirx said:

It's still looking at me after an hour

 

Now you're friends.

[EngineerKappa]

I'm enjoying it so far! The smaller maps give it a nice flow without them ever feeling too short.

 

The Cacodemon spam can be a bit overwhelming, but trying to lure them away makes it more managable.

 

Right now I'm at MAP18, but I'm not a big fan of being forced to take damage in the slime with healing items to help. What a Bad Sector after all.

 

EDIT, finished:

 

Unfortunately, I can't say I'm a fan of the second half of the WAD. It feels as if it starts running out of ideas and every map becomes a giant open arena battle with a simple key hunt at best. It becomes a chore having to deal with every monster type in the game all at once, and it's easier trying to rush past them to make a beeline straight toward the key. It could've desperately used more to do beyond giant map-sized monster battles with the most damage spongy of enemies.

 

The battles are fun at first, but I just don't enjoy doing 30 maps of that.

Edited October 4, 2018 by EngineerKappa

[Capellan]

The download link has been updated.  Texture tweaks to maps 07 and 31.  Moved one thing in map 05.  Made a change to map06 to let the pinkies near the start path out easier once you enter the northern building.  Should also improve flow for DM play.

[Summer Deep]

Is it really possible to make more than 30 kills, or survive more than 2 minutes from a UV pistol start on MAP20? It'd be interesting to see a playthrough video which could confirm this....

 

Edit: or even survive for 90 seconds....

Edited October 11, 2018 by Summer Deep

[Capellan]

1 hour ago, Summer Deep said:

Is it really possible to make more than 30 kills, or survive more than 2 minutes from a UV pistol start on MAP20? It'd be interesting to see a playthrough video which could confirm this....

 

@Demon of the Well finished it on UV pistol on his FDA during playtesting.  He's a jerk like that!  Not sure if he still has the lmp and whether it would still work with the WAD these days, though.

 

[baja blast rd.]

Here's a pistol start FDA with no deaths if you want, since I hadn't played that map yet. In the middle there is a section where my screen starts freezing a bunch, and I take a bunch of damage from barons (lol). I expected a lot worse from the description. :P Every path should be survivable. Anticipating the design choices helps -- for example when a trap is sprung late you sort of know it has to populate other areas too, because it wouldn't make sense not to.

 

d404_20_rd_fda.zip 

 

Bonus pacifist. No need to survive 90 seconds or get 30 kills. :)

 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by rdwpa

[Capellan]

3 hours ago, rdwpa said:

Bonus pacifist. No need to survive 90 seconds or get 30 kills. :)

 

That is awesome :)

 

Watched the FDA, too -- like DotW, you refuse to let the map hurry you, and I think that ice cold approach really helps overall success.

 

 

For the record, all maps in Doom 404 have been completed UV pistol start by @Demon of the Well, the overwhelming majority of them on the first attempt.  And sure, DotW is a Doom-playing robot from a post-apocalyptic reality, but the WAD does have difficulty settings for the more human among us.  I sure as heck don't play it on UV, myself.

 

[Marlamir]

This is way better than i expect honestly. I hadn't finish yet but the level design is nice and have some cool ideas i really like. Gameplay feel awesome, is not easy and not very hard. Is fairly chalenging and will give you fair amount of challenge. I really love the gameplay in this one.

[Summer Deep]

17 hours ago, Capellan said:

 

@Demon of the Well finished it on UV pistol on his FDA during playtesting.  He's a jerk like that!  Not sure if he still has the lmp and whether it would still work with the WAD these days, though.

 

 

 

Did actually finish MAP20 on UV pistol start today, albeit with only 81% kills. I think the moral is that it's not a good idea to tackle a tough Doom map on the highest difficulty setting immediately after finishing a bottle of Chardonnay......

[Capellan]

MAP20 is one of the tougher maps in the set.  Possibly top 5, certainly top 7 or 8.

[Antnee]

Playing through this now (medium difficulty)- it's really, really good.  I only struggled on the first two levels, for some reason my health felt like it was always in the teens.  After I got the SSG things got a bit easier.  Stopped at level 9, will continue on today.

 

 

[Da Werecat]

Played until MAP07. Was charming, but now I need new ears.

[Capellan]

Heh.  Playing with headphones? :)

[Da Werecat]

Was playing with headphones.

[Antnee]

Infinite loop in a nutshell:

 

Such a cool level, but there are two things that really bother me. 

 

a)  Really could use a medikit right at the start- the end of the last level left me with super low health.  Getting dropped into a bunch of hitscans with health in the teens is frustrating.

 

b)  There needs to be a lift at each end of the figure 8- if you fall down (and you WILL fall down) into one of those pits while the thousands of cacodemons are spawned, you're done.  That middle lift might as well be a crusher.  Or, widen the path a bit. 

[Summer Deep]

^ a) It's not so bad doing this level from a pistol start - at least you'll have 100% health to begin with, and there's more than enough ammo provided to get the job done.

 

b) It's a lot easier (relatively speaking) to deal with the Cacodemon swarm from inside the main building (behind the blue door), taking them out from the staircase as they come through the door.

 

Try taking the original group of enemies out from the area in front of the blue door, find out how the main Caco swarm is triggered, and don't let them spawn until you're ready to make a dash for the blue key.

[Antnee]

11 minutes ago, Summer Deep said:

^ a) It's not so bad doing this level from a pistol start - at least you'll have 100% health to begin with, and there's more than enough ammo provided to get the job done.

 

 

I was thinking that.  But IMO, a megawad should be designed to be played continuously, with pistol starting a level as an added challenge.

 

Quote

b) It's a lot easier (relatively speaking) to deal with the Cacodemon swarm from inside the main building (behind the blue door), taking them out from the staircase as they come through the door.

 

Try taking the original group of enemies out from the area in front of the blue door, find out how the main Caco swarm is triggered, and don't let them spawn until you're ready to make a dash for the blue key.

 

I ended up doing that eventually- I did not see the switch that lowers the blue key until after a few dozen saves.

I think this level more than anything else has a lot of ways to trap you without any recourse.  It's one thing to be pinned down in a corner that has some means of escape- it's another thing entirely when you throw a big expanse of nukeage in the mix.  The nukeage was probably the biggest issue for me;  there were a lot of deaths due to me simply not having enough health to get to an elevator (not that it matters when the screen is full of cacos.) because the distances you have to cross are just so big.  Not saying "ugh nukeage," but if there is only one way to get back up to the action and you can end up literally across the map from it, I think that's a bit of a design flaw.  Some tiny islands would be nice.

 

Didn't mean for this to get so long.  Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love this level.  But, for how early it is in the wad, IMO it needs to be a little more forgiving.

[Antnee]

Playing some more- In the first spider mastermind encounter, I think the fight might be uncharacteristically easy because you can just hide in this corner once you clear the imps, then shoot his feet til he dies in complete safety.  He's too big to round the bend, so you can hit him but he can't hit you.  Feels cheap to win that way, considering every other fight is really challenging.

 

Bad Sector:

 

This is literally not possible to start with single-digit health.

 

Alright, maybe not literally (though if you should start with 4%, then yeah, literally).  But, man... just try it.  You can't just sit there, the mancubus will get you.  The moment you shoot, the hitscanguys will get you.  You can't rush to the stairs (that you can't see until you just run out and die multiple times just to see whats around) because hitscan.  You have to do a pixel-perfect sequence of events in order to get anywhere remotely safe.  Very frustrating.  Despite that, it's an excellent level.

Have you tried to beat these from a low-health start?

[Summer Deep]

1 hour ago, Antnee said:

 

I was thinking that.  But IMO, a megawad should be designed to be played continuously, with pistol starting a level as an added challenge.

 

 

I ended up doing that eventually- I did not see the switch that lowers the blue key until after a few dozen saves.

I think this level more than anything else has a lot of ways to trap you without any recourse.  It's one thing to be pinned down in a corner that has some means of escape- it's another thing entirely when you throw a big expanse of nukeage in the mix.  The nukeage was probably the biggest issue for me;  there were a lot of deaths due to me simply not having enough health to get to an elevator (not that it matters when the screen is full of cacos.) because the distances you have to cross are just so big.  Not saying "ugh nukeage," but if there is only one way to get back up to the action and you can end up literally across the map from it, I think that's a bit of a design flaw.  Some tiny islands would be nice.

 

Didn't mean for this to get so long.  Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love this level.  But, for how early it is in the wad, IMO it needs to be a little more forgiving.

 

 

Yeah, I play most megawads on continuous, so I'm in a fair amount of agreement with you on the issue of health, or lack of it, at the start of a level. I'm actually playing this wad with UV pistol starts though, and have found that lack of armour near the start can be a problem which can also impact adversely on gameplay. In maps 06 and 20 the only armour available seems to be via obscure secrets.

 

I hate nukage as well, by the way!

 

I did a quick recorded playthrough of the map. didn't play very well at all, and got into a very bad situation ammo-wise by neglecting to pick up the box of bullets at the far end of the room. Doing a screen recording also overtaxes my laptop's processor somewhat, and makes the game run more jerkily and skittishly than usual.

 

 

[Capellan]

53 minutes ago, Summer Deep said:

In maps 06 and 20 the only armour available seems to be via obscure secrets.

 

There's a green armour right out in the open on map20. :)

 

I haven't tried starting any map on sub-10% health.  It honestly never occurred to me that anyone would try!  That's what makes feedback useful.

 

 

[Summer Deep]

^ My apologies, Capellan, I should have said MAP21.

[Capellan]

In that case, you are correct that it's in a secret, though I've had more complaints about the absence of a plasma gun from that map, TBH.  (I'm not adding a plasma gun, folks.  Blame the continuous players ... of which I am one :) )

 

Download link has been updated with a variety of edits.  Most are pretty small, except map 14 (was possible to basically get stuck if you did something I hadn't expected) and map 17 (addressing @Antnee's issue with the SMM fight)

[Summer Deep]

Spent an awful lot of time looking for the secret to get the armour in MAP21.

 

Please tell me it's NOT an AV jump......

[baja blast rd.]

On 21, that one has a seemingly obvious trick to skip the map. It also didn't immediately strike me as being a trick: viewed from a distance the switch looks parallel enough to the edge of the platform that 'hit switch -> run into teleporter' presents itself as a logical sequence -- likely not for progression, but certainly for a possible secret. 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited October 14, 2018 by rdwpa