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Ryath

Bury My Heart Knee Deep (Release Candidate 3?)

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Yum.

I don't always play E1 style mapsets but, when I do, I prefer them in Doom II. 

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BuryScreen.PNG.56603765f1158c88eeece5530a613d91.PNG

 

Just finished this on UV, picking up all the keys. Man, probably among the most intelligent maps I've played designwise. It wasn't necessarily that difficult, but the scope of the thing makes it really important that it's enjoyable the first time through, and that was definitely accomplished.

 

My only critique would probably be that even if it was fun, there probably were to many resources on UV, but I think that about almost every map I play, so maybe I'm just crazy. I just felt that on UV it would have been nice if it was more of a survival map aswell as an orgie in exporation. Maybe force the player to open more of the "locked" stashes, or else you will run out of juice. Then you can play on HMP if you want the nice cruise. That's really nitpicky though, the balance was really good overall.

 

Anyway, thanks for the good times, cheers.

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On 10/2/2018 at 4:12 AM, wintertowns said:

My only critique would probably be that even if it was fun, there probably were to many resources on UV, but I think that about almost every map I play, so maybe I'm just crazy. I just felt that on UV it would have been nice if it was more of a survival map aswell as an orgie in exporation. Maybe force the player to open more of the "locked" stashes, or else you will run out of juice. Then you can play on HMP if you want the nice cruise. That's really nitpicky though, the balance was really good overall.

Thanks for the feedback! This is a really interesting point, because the map was actually balanced all through development for HMP. I only added the other skill settings about a month ago. Playing it myself it felt like the resource balance on HMP was pretty reasonable and on UV it was quite tight. But maybe I just play extra sloppy? I'll keep this in mind and see how other players feel about it.

 

One question for you: did you get the chainsaw or berserk fairly early and use that? Or otherwise spend a lot of time punching? I tend not to melee unless I absolutely have to, so that could explain the difference.

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, Ryath said:

the map was actually balanced all through development for HMP

That actually makes a lot of sense. I think I probably could have completed the whole thing without opening any stashes, especially if I had gotten chainsaw/berserk early. I did not really get to use berserk, and I only found a chainsaw maybe three quarters in. I'm a bit of an infighting enthusiast, so that probably factored in, especially in areas with an open layout, but I don't tend to fight meele without berserk/chainsaw. You can watch how I play some UV-max here.

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Just finished this on UV. Phew, I'm quite exhausted! Perhaps the first third of the map I was running out of ammo and had to use all the infighting I could set up. But it eased up after that. Because the map is so huge and explorative I'd say the resource balance depends on the path you choose.

 

I didn't encounter any huge issues. But I think I found a typo?

Spoiler

typo.jpg.b42b5c5d00818daaeda01ba62cb47147.jpg

 

I think I got 40 something secrets so still a lot of replay value. I loved the force fields that compelled to make the decision if you want to exchange a rocket for the items you saw. The writings on the floors were quite helpful as the map is so huge it's easy to get lost.

You have clearly poured a piece of your soul into this WAD!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, SP_FACE1 said:

I think I got 40 something secrets so still a lot of replay value. I loved the force fields that compelled to make the decision if you want to exchange a rocket for the items you saw. The writings on the floors were quite helpful as the map is so huge it's easy to get lost.

You have clearly poured a piece of your soul into this WAD!

Thanks! Glad you liked it.

 

1 hour ago, SP_FACE1 said:

I didn't encounter any huge issues. But I think I found a typo?

  Reveal hidden contents

typo.jpg.b42b5c5d00818daaeda01ba62cb47147.jpg

 

............lol. Why you gotta embarrass me like this?

 

(EDIT: Quick fix version is up now. Still calling it RC1 since the only change is that floor detail. Unfortunately the one extra letter was enough to cause a visplane overflow -- so I had to come up with something else.)

Edited by Ryath

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Posted (edited)

Jesus, that was a long map. It's beautifully designed though, so its length wasn't a deal breaker, although I did start to get a bit tired towards the end. So many secrets as well! Unfortunately, I didn't get to explore the dark areas since I never unlocked the lite-amps. Was the switch in a secret? Or did I just not explore thoroughly enough?

 

14 hours ago, Ryath said:

Unfortunately the one extra letter was enough to cause a visplane overflow -- so I had to come up with something else.)

 

LOL vanilla mapping in a nutshell, isn't it?

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1 hour ago, KVELLER said:

Unfortunately, I didn't get to explore the dark areas since I never unlocked the lite-amps. Was the switch in a secret? Or did I just not explore thoroughly enough?

Yep, that's one of the secrets. So far I've only seen one person find it, which is as intended since the light amps open up a few major sequence breaks.

 

If you want a hint:

Spoiler

It requires traipsing through some nukage, so the "intended" time to find it is after the rad suits are accessible. But if you're quick and brave you can get there much, much earlier.

 

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Posted (edited)

Hey, I haven't played this yet, but I loaded it up and noticed that no music plays in G/ZDoom. This is because you've defined the map in MAPINFO but haven't included a definition for music. You just need to add the following to the MAPINFO lump:

 

music "D_RUNNIN"

 

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I played on Hurt Me Plenty over three days and finished 90/68/39. This map is just brilliant. I got lost once, but even as I was trying to find my way to the yellow key, I found more goodies, secrets, and monsters. The most ironic thing is that when I finally had an idea as to how to get the yellow key, I instead ended up bypassing it altogether. I think the overall premise of this map suffers ever so slightly from Doom just not having enough lasting goodies that you can get away with withholding for long periods of times. I think it might be interesting with some additional custom weapons and/or items, but I thought this was fantastic, especially mostly within vanilla limitations.

 

My (140-minute) playthrough can be viewed here

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2 hours ago, FrancisT18 said:

@Ryath  I'm getting no music (in ZDooM).

 

6 hours ago, Not Jabba said:

Hey, I haven't played this yet, but I loaded it up and noticed that no music plays in G/ZDoom. This is because you've defined the map in MAPINFO but haven't included a definition for music. You just need to add the following to the MAPINFO lump:

 

music "D_RUNNIN"

 

Thanks, folks! I'll fix that right away.

 

4 hours ago, HAK3180 said:

I played on Hurt Me Plenty over three days and finished 90/68/39. This map is just brilliant. I got lost once, but even as I was trying to find my way to the yellow key, I found more goodies, secrets, and monsters. The most ironic thing is that when I finally had an idea as to how to get the yellow key, I instead ended up bypassing it altogether. I think the overall premise of this map suffers ever so slightly from Doom just not having enough lasting goodies that you can get away with withholding for long periods of times. I think it might be interesting with some additional custom weapons and/or items, but I thought this was fantastic, especially mostly within vanilla limitations.

 

My (140-minute) playthrough can be viewed here

That's all fair criticism. And that was a super interesting playthrough. You had a great handle on the map for the most part, and the areas where you did get lost were places I didn't really expect to be hard to navigate. I was really surprised that you weren't drawn to the living hell portal in Depot. That's where the yellow key is, and you were about 2 seconds away from it for half the run. On the other hand, you're the first person I've seen do the sequence break to get into Yellow Sector, so nice job!

 

Also really enjoyed all your thoughts after you finished the map. There will be a lot of changes in the next version based on what I saw in this FDA and others.

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2 hours ago, Korozive said:

Download link not working.

Not sure what would be wrong with it. I just gave it a try and didn't have any problems, but I've created a new link in case that might fix it for you.

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Metroidvania inspired is what caught my attention so I gave this a try.  Blind skill 3 FDA attached if you want to use it for research though I don't think my demo is very interesting.  It's -complevel 9 to guard against ghost monsters.  Slowly wandering around until I die in the "bossfight" for the blue key.  Got overrun by flaming skulls.

 

  Enjoyable stuff, I recorded a second attempt right after the first one but ended up dying in the same bossfight so didn't include it.  That I jumped right back in after failing speaks to the quality here.  I think I'm going to need saves to complete this.  I was a bit ticked finding myself in a lock-in situation but metroidvanias also lock the player into a limited space for boss fights so it works when looking at things that way.

 

  Only a few thoughts for now, may edit in more once I make further progress.  Seeing health behind armor bonuses that I didn't want to pick up yet caused my eye to twitch but this isn't something that will bother most people.  One brainstorm I have is some kind of save station structure.  Would feel more metroidvania-ish to only save and load from select spots.  In the absence of designated spots, it's not really that difficult to make my own.  So it's just a random thought for adding to the metroidvania feel.

 

Edit: 3rd time's the charm, got blue key and moved on.  Sticking to the intended path that doesn't take me through nukage or dark rooms.  Got a rocket launcher at last so I can open up some choice goodies.  Things are opening up more.  It doesn't take long to work out what to do to open up the path to the red key bossfight.  Get into some surprise fights that I handle poorly but manage to live through them.  Then I have a misstep, fall into acid, and melt.  Derp.  Coming back with saves, finding this a compelling environment to explore.

 

Edit 2: Beat this thing.  101% kills with 7 monsters alive (resurrections), 47/64 secrets.  Second bossfight is fun though I did fail a time or two due to mistiming my dance steps with the cyber.  Map really opens up after the second key is acquired.  Soon after, unlocked the radsuit so I could finally explore all those passages I passed up.  Did unlock light amps and found one of the sequence breaks.  Finale got tense since I wasn't abusing midfight saves, emerged victorious at 2% health.  I have a few more specific thoughts but this appears a good stopping point.  Fun map.

 

kdfda_cnr.zip

Edited by Crusader No Regret

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On 10/7/2018 at 5:52 PM, Ryath said:

Not sure what would be wrong with it. I just gave it a try and didn't have any problems, but I've created a new link in case that might fix it for you.

It times out for whatever reason. Might be my connection. I am on WIFI in a workcamp. Will it be in idgames in the future?

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New release candidate! Check the OP for a list of changes, but it includes some balance tweaks, a couple cool new secrets, and a few changes to clear up confusion I was seeing in demos. Plus larger rocket receptacles so you're less likely to take damage when blowing up forcefields.

 

On 10/9/2018 at 10:01 PM, Crusader No Regret said:

Only a few thoughts for now, may edit in more once I make further progress.  Seeing health behind armor bonuses that I didn't want to pick up yet caused my eye to twitch but this isn't something that will bother most people.  One brainstorm I have is some kind of save station structure.  Would feel more metroidvania-ish to only save and load from select spots.  In the absence of designated spots, it's not really that difficult to make my own.  So it's just a random thought for adding to the metroidvania feel.

 

Thanks for the feedback and the demo! Could you point out where those armor bonuses were? -- I'll fix that if I can. And that save station idea is kind of interesting but obviously out of the scope of the project. Maybe ZDoom allows for editing how saves work? If I ever do a ZDoom sequel I'll look into it.

 

On 10/10/2018 at 5:11 PM, Korozive said:

It times out for whatever reason. Might be my connection. I am on WIFI in a workcamp. Will it be in idgames in the future?

 

It certainly will be! Not sure when, but it'll go up as soon as I'm satisfied everything's up to snuff and all the bugs are squashed.

 

I wonder if a zipped version would be easier to download on your connection, though? Try this one out if you have a chance.

Edited by Ryath

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Where the first non-secret shotgun is, there are stimpacks behind armor bonuses.  Also outdoors near the first entrance to the labs there is a row of armor bonuses with a medikit at the end.  In my demo, I look at them but don't grab them even when my health is low enough to get the full benefit because of my obsessiveness about only picking up armor bonuses at 100% armor or higher.  Nothing "broken", it's the player being picky.

 

Didn't realize it while playing but this map is fantastic about forced items as there are none I encountered.  Another point to praise.

 

I'm certainly not advocating forcing players to only save/load from selected spots.  My mad brainstorm was more along the lines of level architecture that suggests a save station.  Visplane limits are more important to the intention of the map I gather.  In my saves playthrough, limiting saving to safe ground by a cache of radsuits, lightamps, or an item cache with multiple barriers (the ones that require a rocket to deactivate) worked out well for having a spot near an upcoming bossfight and not needing to repeat large sections in the event of failure/undesirable results.  This self-imposed limitation preserves the challenge of individual encounters since I'm not abusing midbattle saving.

 

Oops, rambling again.

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26 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

Mega bump: Is there a finalized version (and accompanying textfile) of this? It looks great. Thanks!

No final version yet, though I'm still hoping to release before the end of the year. I've got everything basically in a finished state... I just kind of wanted a custom midi for the release version but I can't think of/find one that suits the map. In the meantime, I updated the OP with the most recent RC (and temporary text file) if you want to check it out.

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1 hour ago, Ryath said:

No final version yet, though I'm still hoping to release before the end of the year. I've got everything basically in a finished state... I just kind of wanted a custom midi for the release version but I can't think of/find one that suits the map. In the meantime, I updated the OP with the most recent RC (and temporary text file) if you want to check it out.


Maybe one of mine might work? 

Anyway I love Metroid so this should be down my alley!

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