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Alfonzo

The DWIronman League dies to: Doom 64 for Doom 2

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31 minutes ago, Pegleg said:

 

I think only a half dozen four players even reached far enough to be confronted by Cat and Mouse. Of course, all of them made it through that map, but it's still a relatively small sample set.

 

Besides, there's still 2/3 of the month to come.

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the surprise chaingunners coming at you from 4 directions

 

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the revenants that are unexpectedly in the room at the end, when there's nothing remotely like them anywhere else in the map. The encounter is complete with one teleporting behind you.

 

Nope. Eleven players reached MAP11, with only one death so far! 

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12 minutes ago, NaZa said:

Nope. Eleven players reached MAP11, with only one death so far! 

 

OK. I thought Cat and Mouse was Map 25. Since I hadn't gotten that far, I could only go by what I had found about the original (where Map 11 is Terror Core). I stand corrected.

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9 hours ago, duvel said:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/320738102

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xatx1z1tncypki6/d64d2im.lmp?dl=0

 

Category 3. Got to Map 6. Very sloppy run, after a very sloppy attempt at a category 2 lol.

Hey! Unfortunately there's only one official run, and in this case it's unfortunately your former run you didn't post here. Luckily there is a VOD of it: 

I'm so sorry for being such a spoilsport, but the rules state you cannot attempt a run again after already attempting one. The first one is considered your official one - the other one would be ignored now. Luckily you have the VOD of your first run so you'll end up on my unofficial board anyway. Not last, either! Though I'm not sure will your run end up on Alfonzo's board.

Edited by NaZa

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8 hours ago, Da Werecat said:

LOL at Final Outpost YK puzzle.

 

That's not how you're supposed to do it?? :))

 

@NaZa Good catch  I glossed over duvel's post. I can still slap the first one into the OP if there's evidence of it, no problem.

 

9 hours ago, Pegleg said:

However, let's say you decide to start playing. You only have a 2 hour window, but that's OK, because you expect to die early. Let's say you're doing much better than expected and are cruising along when you start to reach your 2 hour limit. Can you save and quit immediately and then reload from that exact spot later and finish your run?

 

You can as of today, yes ("preferably in one sitting"), although the traditional Ironman rule set i.e. out there in the World Wide Web of video games is an endurance test. They probably don't allow for this sort of thing, not that we have to follow suit.

 

The league has kind of decided by itself that it's better to stick fat with the one-sitting rule, though, so I'll probably honor this by writing it into the OP next month. Joe Bloggs will just have to pick his battles and hope that he doesn't get a call-out when he's five hours deep into a 1CC slaughtermap set. I'll do my best to not pick something that has a running time that's crippling for your health!

Edited by Alfonzo : saving and loading runs

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Two, or maybe just one, nightmare imps came out on top of an melee war with a cacodemon.  Getting cornered by more than one is a bad thing.

 

  If a mapset has death exits, will we still be able to split demos?  Say there's a death exit on map 11.  Would it work out to end the first demo at the intermission screen and start a new one that begins on map 12?  The few mapsets where there have been death exits (Jenesis, UAC Ultra, Unholy Realms, any others?), I've died to other causes earlier so that's never come up for me but I do wonder.

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^^ iirc Anima Zero stopped recording their demo of Jenesis when they reached and got through the death exit (MAP20) and then recorded another demo starting from the map succeeding said death exit (MAP21), so I gather it's permitted. 

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13 hours ago, Alfonzo said:

The league has kind of decided by itself that it's better to stick fat with the one-sitting rule, though, so I'll probably honor this by writing it into the OP next month.

wwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllllllllllllllllppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp

 

Guess that's it for me, then? I realise it's kinda silly of me to be saying that considering that despite me making a whole point of asking about multi-segment runs way back in... April?.. and then never actually making one, there were reasons why I asked this... and this month's second run, despite being ruled unofficial, was nonetheless a wonderful reminder as to why exactly you should take breaks when your shitty ass health tells you to, and not be like "but I haven't even been to intermission screen, I can totally tough it out!". Yeah, right, that went so well.

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14 hours ago, Alfonzo said:

You can as of today, yes ("preferably in one sitting"), although the traditional Ironman rule set i.e. out there in the World Wide Web of video games is an endurance test. They probably don't allow for this sort of thing, not that we have to follow suit.

 

The league has kind of decided by itself that it's better to stick fat with the one-sitting rule, though, so I'll probably honor this by writing it into the OP next month.

 

6 hours ago, Crusader No Regret said:

If a mapset has death exits, will we still be able to split demos?

 

5 hours ago, NaZa said:

^^ iirc Anima Zero stopped recording their demo of Jenesis when they reached and got through the death exit (MAP20) and then recorded another demo starting from the map succeeding said death exit (MAP21), so I gather it's permitted. 

 

1 hour ago, HexaDoken said:

I realise it's kinda silly of me to be saying that considering that despite me making a whole point of asking about multi-segment runs way back in... April?.. and then never actually making one, there were reasons why I asked this... and this month's second run, despite being ruled unofficial, was nonetheless a wonderful reminder as to why exactly you should take breaks when your shitty ass health tells you to

 

Hexa's original question was back in March and was left unanswered, as far as I could tell.

 

This type of exchange was the entire reason I brought up one sitting. I understand the concept of "Ironman run as endurance test." You can have the combined skills of the Top 3 finishers in each of the last 6 months, and can breeze through individual levels using your toes and wearing an eyepatch, but if you don't have the stamina to maintain that level of skill for hours, then you potentially won't perform as well in an Ironman challenge as someone with a lower skill level but more stamina. But that's what makes an Ironman different, right?

 

Ultimately, we just have to figure out what we want the Ironman challenge to be. If the challenge is an "endurance test," then a single setting is probably the only way to go (perhaps with exceptions for certain circumstances). If the challenge is a test of skills, then recording over multiple sessions should be allowable (with certain restrictions).

 

However, there is already precedent for potentially allowing multiple sessions. As Naza pointed out, Anima Zero split up the recording at a death exit in Jenesis. Bioregenat's run was split into 2 parts by a recording time limit. I'm not saying either one did not play in a single session, but I'm say that the precedent has been set to allow for recordings to be split. It would be possible, in principle, to save the game and quit and then load that game the next day and continue on, fully refreshed. Again, if the point is a test of skills and overall better quality, then there shouldn't be an issue with splitting a run over two sessions. I'm not advocating something as ridiculous as playing 1 or 2 levels a day over the course of the month and submitting all those individual demos as a single Ironman run, which is why I said there would have to be limits.

 

But it all depends what aspect you want to highlight, the endurance or the skills (or some combination of them).

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21 minutes ago, Pegleg said:

Hexa's original question was back in March and was left unanswered, as far as I could tell.

It was actually answered, though with a two page delay.

On 4/2/2018 at 2:42 AM, Alfonzo said:

Fair question. That ruling in the OP is a disparity I've failed to address: it should indeed allow for split runs with saves made at the end of the first video and loaded from at the beginning of the next. Traditionally, Ironman runs have been single-take, but we're likely to play some lengthy sets every year and if poor Wilou has to sit down for another eight hours straight in the name of vanilla then I should be a tyrant of ceremonies.

 

Keep in mind that unless you're using streams as proof, splitting runs in demos is -cl9-exclusive.

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I usually just find a safe corner to hide in, and leave the demo running indefinitely, and hope I'm still alive when I get back home.  Is this not the best way to do it?

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On 10/11/2018 at 2:26 AM, Alfonzo said:

That's not how you're supposed to do it?? :))

No, but it's delightful to know that it's not impossible to beat it by unleashing your inner hedgehog.

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1 hour ago, dt_ said:

I usually just find a safe corner to hide in, and leave the demo running indefinitely, and hope I'm still alive when I get back home.  Is this not the best way to do it?

One Eternity Later....

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  I feel the essence of an ironman run is "fear of loss."  Saves solely for the purpose of splitting up a run into less time demanding sessions stay within that spirit.  Getting rid of the option of saves mid-attempt just because people haven't been using them seems it would primarily discourage participation from people who aren't in a position to set aside long blocks of time.  The fear of loss is still intact when the first death means the end of the attempt, no take backs or second chances.  The current rules already prevent abuse and exploits and I see no need to fix something that was never broken.

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2 hours ago, SSGmaster said:

That was Hectic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3tuZGr6TaA

I Died in map 31, category 2 (I never played this wad before but I played Doom 64 earlier this year)

Also why the f*ck is cat & mouse in slot 11?!

Because the original map was techbase themed like the techbase episode, and Doom 2's different episode structure to Doom 64 required maps to move around. Cat and Mouse is a boss map and a perfect closer for the techbase episode. I was the one responsible for its placement there way back in the project's early days for this reasoning :) Same reason why many secret maps are now regular maps, why Even Simpler was moved down to map 7, and why the other two 'fun' maps are inserted into the regular mapset.

 

Everything had to fit regular Doom 2's map conventions, with Maps 1 to 11 being E1, 12 to 20 being E2, 21 to 30 being E3, and two secret maps, accessed from 15 and 31.

 

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12 hours ago, Devalaous said:

Because the original map was techbase themed like the techbase episode, and Doom 2's different episode structure to Doom 64 required maps to move around. Cat and Mouse is a boss map and a perfect closer for the techbase episode. I was the one responsible for its placement there way back in the project's early days for this reasoning :) Same reason why many secret maps are now regular maps, why Even Simpler was moved down to map 7, and why the other two 'fun' maps are inserted into the regular mapset.

 

Everything had to fit regular Doom 2's map conventions, with Maps 1 to 11 being E1, 12 to 20 being E2, 21 to 30 being E3, and two secret maps, accessed from 15 and 31.

 

Ok so why not change the theme of the map instead? It's not like you haven't done some other heavy changes to fit Doom 64 into Doom2 vanilla.

Also, it's not like Doom and Doom2 doesn't have maps with techbase textures in EP3 (ex: Pandemonium, The Chasm).

I mean Cat & Mouse was originaly a reward for beating Hectic. It was difficult to reach and stupidly designed on purpose. I understand that you had to put it in regular map slots for obvious reasons but putting one of the hardest map that early makes no sense to me(unless you're making a Plutonia like wad).

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Category 2, I remember playing this megawad in TNS a while ago, though I believe it was more spectating than playing because I have little memory of the maps. It is a "half-blind" run in a way. I took a break of half an hour just to wind off because I was stuck in MAP06 seeking the red key and it was getting annoying (the doomguy was staying in one place thinking about his life choices). Then I came back, magically solve the red key puzzle (it's wonderful a break can do), and finally I died in the same map because in the meantime I lost patience and focus.

 

The "half-blind" run and the half an hour break give a runtime of 1h34min50sec.

 

File : Malrionn_Ironman_D64D2.zip

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SO PISSED OFF ABOUT MY DEATH OMG. I got to MAP22. Map bloody twenty two!! I feel like maybe, just maybe, I could have gone the whole way...

 

But what was it I died to? A poxy little inescapable pit. Pathetic :(

 

Regardless, let's look at the positives: I reached MAP22 in 4:12:44, and have set a high order for mutt & Suitepee to beat! I should note I went via 1 secret map for a quick +1. A huge thanks to @HexaDoken for all the support in the chat, what a brilliant helper!

 

VOD below. Good luck britbowlers, I'll watch from the sidelines while I

 

On 4/19/2018 at 12:15 PM, an_mutt said:

start polishing my BritBowl bowl

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Dragonfly said:

I went via 1 secret map for a quick +1. 

I'm sorry to inform you, but that's absolutely meaningless unless you made it to the end, which is unfortunately not the case. Shame really - considering you went for the secret exit, I'm guessing you used the other exit so you shouldn't lose too much time luckily. But yes, people who don't go for the secret level and died on the same map are usually ranked above simply because they needed less time, that is didn't go for the secret level. 

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aah, I wasn't aware that's how it worked, heh. But yeah, regardless, I passed through MAP31 in a few seconds so it's no skin off my nose! :)

Edited by Dragonfly

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https://www.twitch.tv/videos/325689505

 

Died on map 11. To the Cyberdemon. (cat 1 run, although I did look up HexaDoken's map 2 BS trap advice)

 

So that's it, my Britbowl is over. It's between @Dragonfly and @an_mutt now, although I could still act as an annoying third wheel to deny either of them victory. A 5-5-2 tie awaits maybe!

 

Until next year's Britbowl...…. (I'll still be participating in the Ironman League for the next 2 months)

Edited by Suitepee

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