Community Chest 64

[iori]

The cracks in the rock texture for the trunk look like vines growing up the side. It works in an abstract kind of way.

[Bob9001]

Some more screenshots. Map is about 45%-50% done.

 

Just gonna say that my map isn't that BIG... but Im trying to make it detailed so I don't think anybody will mind..?

 

Spoiler

 

 

[hardcore_gamer]

10 hours ago, tempdecal.wad said:

 

3D Floors aren't the only method to detail your levels, you just gotta be creative.

 

Well a lack of slopes is also a major problem. To be honest now that I think about it I don't even think the original Doom games even had any real detail to speak off other than what was included on the textures and maybe some of the props. It was all about layout.

 

I have been spending the last few days Quake mapping so going back to the limitations of 2.5D is going to be hard :(

[snapshot]

You don't need 'em, just look at some of the community made level packs out there, they managed to make good looking and fun levels without using either of these things, not to say they wouldn't be of any use, just something that's rarely useful.

[StevenC21]

I (personally) don't give a damn about 3d floors, slopes, etc. I love how Doom looks.

[snapshot]

Same, I rarely use them when mapping in UDMF, there's always a better or easier alternative, or just no use for them at all.

[Nevander]

12 hours ago, StevenC21 said:

@Bob9001 Don't forget to create your secret exit to MAP32!

Ok we should really clear up where the secret exits will be and what maps are secret.

 

Are we using the Doom 2 model:

 

MAP15 --> MAP31 --> MAP32

 

Or are we using the Doom 64 model:

 

MAP01 --> MAP32

MAP04 --> MAP29

MAP12 --> MAP30

MAP18 --> MAP31

 

Or an arbitrary model?

 

I need to know because I'm making a secret exit to MAP32 on my MAP01.

[StevenC21]

@Nevander Arbitrary. Check the main post to see it.

[Bob9001]

Ohh that reminds me am I allowed to put a normal exit in my map which would take the player back to Map04 aswell as having the secret exit to Map32?

[StevenC21]

Of course. You are supposed to have both exits, in fact.

[Bob9001]

Ah cool, I wasn't sure. First time doing a map with a secret exit haha.

[TakenStew22]

I told Steven I could be the tester of these maps and he accepted it. I'm not good at making maps so I'll just play them instead and tell you guys what I thought of them. Maybe add some advice too.

[seed]

2 minutes ago, TakenStew22 said:

I told Steven I could be the tester of these maps and he accepted it. I'm not good at making maps so I'll just play them instead and tell you guys what I thought of them. Maybe add some advice too.

 

That's also what I'm doing (if it wasn't obvious) since I don't know jack about mapping.

[Antnee]

12 hours ago, Bob9001 said:

Some more screenshots. Map is about 45%-50% done.

 

Just gonna say that my map isn't that BIG... but Im trying to make it detailed so I don't think anybody will mind..?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

Good use of textures.  Two things:

(minor)  There's another book texture that you may have missed: C200.  You have to use the H mirror linedef flag to make it look right.

 

The other thing is, try to make use of the colored lighting.  The palette in D64 is really neutral and bland, and on their own the textures don't look great... because they're sort of a canvass for the colored lighting.  It takes some getting used to, but once you get a few good combinations of wall/floor/ceiling colors going, I think you'll really appreciate how it opens things up.

 

Edit:  One thing I should mention, when you do choose colors, try to desaturate the "thing" color a little more than the other colors.   It really makes things pop out, and doesn't give off that oversaturated PSX monocolor type look.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Antnee

[snapshot]

Is there a way to prevent Mid-textures from getting repeated? like a flag or a property to use old behavior of Mid-textures?
EDIT: Nevermind, just had to create a sector.

Edited October 17, 2018 by tempdecal.wad

[Da Werecat]

23 hours ago, hardcore_gamer said:

One of the major disadvantages of classical Doom mapping (which I consider Doom 64 mapping to be a part of) is that it's often very hard to create a strong sense of location without being able to create any detail.

Define detail?

[Koko Ricky]

Anyone know of the best way to do the suspended beam trick without causing occlusion?

[Antnee]

44 minutes ago, GoatLord said:

Anyone know of the best way to do the suspended beam trick without causing occlusion?

 

 

The front side of the brown linedefs have "Blank" as the upper texture. 

 

The top/bottom triangular ceilings are slightly higher than the central beam, and have a sky texture. 

 

The left and right triangular ceiling heights match the overall outside ceiling, and are also sky textured.  (however, I move the vertices one unit from the normal walls to hide the sector.  Otherwise you can notice an ugly gap from underneath.)  Edit:  I actually don't think you need these if the sidedefs that collide with the beam are "lower" ones.  I just do this out of habit.

 

Looks like this in editor:

 

 

And, in game:

 

 

You can use this trick for almost anything, doesn't have to be a beam necessarily.

Edited October 17, 2018 by Antnee

[Nevander]

One thing though (maybe I was doing it wrong) is that the beams trick only works right if the surrounding ceilings is also sky. What I mean is, trying to do beams inside a building will result in sky being where the ceiling flat should be. The effect is working as intended but I don't think there is a way to make it be anything other than sky above the beams.

 

If I am wrong please correct me.

[Antnee]

19 minutes ago, Nevander said:

One thing though (maybe I was doing it wrong) is that the beams trick only works right if the surrounding ceilings is also sky. What I mean is, trying to do beams inside a building will result in sky being where the ceiling flat should be. The effect is working as intended but I don't think there is a way to make it be anything other than sky above the beams.

 

If I am wrong please correct me.

 

You're mostly right about that.  "Blank" only looks right if it's touching a sky ceiling.

 

BUT, using very thin, 1-unit wide slivers of sectors, you could potentially pull it off indoors with some weird geometry tricks.  It;s dependent on whether or not the player is using freelook.

 

Edit:  Proof of concept.   It's really hacky, but I guess it depends on how creative you are with your layout.

 

Edited October 17, 2018 by Antnee

[Guest DILDOMASTER666]

Put me on for MAP18, I'll try to do something. If you don't see anything from me by the first of November, assume I failed to produce anything as usual

[Koko Ricky]

I'm designing specifically themed environments for each key and the red key has taken on a very "Gateways to Annihilation" aesthetic.

[hardcore_gamer]

3 hours ago, Da Werecat said:

Define detail?

 

Basically anything that makes the level look visually interesting. The Doom engine (not counting the more advanced ports) can't really do anything more complex than angled walls and wall borders. Look at the screenshots posted in this thread so far. 90% of the detail/interesting visuals are created by using borders and non-boxy/rectangular shapes. The screenshot above me is actually a perfect example. Sure it looks nice. but notice how everything is boxy. The lack of slopes, smooth geo and other true 3D geo makes it hard to detail a level well in Doom.

 

Actually, you can also do computer monitors in walls, so there's that to as well I guess.

 

So wall borders. non-linear room layout, computer panels in walls and props are pretty much all you can do to detail in Doom unless you are using a port. That, and having interesting textures and lightning.

[Antnee]

14 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

 

Basically anything that makes the level look visually interesting. The Doom engine (not counting the more advanced ports) can't really do anything more complex than angled walls and wall borders. Look at the screenshots posted in this thread so far. 90% of the detail/interesting visuals are created by using borders and non-boxy/rectangular shapes. The screenshot above me is actually a perfect example. Sure it looks nice. but notice how everything is boxy. The lack of slopes, smooth geo and other true 3D geo makes it hard to detail a level well in Doom.

 

Actually, you can also do computer monitors in walls, so there's that to as well I guess.

 

So wall borders. non-linear room layout, computer panels in walls and props are pretty much all you can do to detail in Doom unless you are using a port. That, and having interesting textures and lightning.

 

Limitation breeds creativity.

[Nevander]

Detail in Doom 64 comes from the textures being combined with the lighting abilities. I would say the original maps look pretty detailed even as-is, due to using the textures and lighting well.

 

Doom 64 also never really used large open spaces, which helps with things not looking too boxy. One of the biggest areas is the courtyard of Dark Citadel and just due to the size, it will be more boxy.

[Antnee]

7 minutes ago, Nevander said:

Doom 64 also never really used large open spaces, which helps with things not looking too boxy. One of the biggest areas is the courtyard of Dark Citadel and just due to the size, it will be more boxy.

 

I think a lot of that might have to do with the fact that the textures are so small.  You *can* have 128 by 128 if you use the H and V mirrors, and the texture specifically looks good that way... but big open areas in D64 tend to look really bad due to how repetitious the textures are- that is unless you get crazy with geometry, which I guess wasn't an option due to the small cart size.

At least for me, when I tried opening things up I always ended up being repulsed by how it looked.  I don't have that reservation with D1/2.

[Da Werecat]

55 minutes ago, hardcore_gamer said:

So wall borders. non-linear room layout, computer panels in walls and props are pretty much all you can do to detail in Doom unless you are using a port. That, and having interesting textures and lightning.

Sounds like a lot of useful tools to me.

 

Well, except borders. Those are extremely 2005 and you can almost always do better than just wrap a room in them.

[Koko Ricky]

Final image before release. Playing with occlusion...

[Guest DILDOMASTER666]

1 hour ago, hardcore_gamer said:

The lack of slopes, smooth geo and other true 3D geo makes it hard to detail a level well in Doom.

Missing the obvious point that detailing a level well is hard by itself, port features or not

[Bob9001]

6 hours ago, Antnee said:

 

Good use of textures.  Two things:

(minor)  There's another book texture that you may have missed: C200.  You have to use the H mirror linedef flag to make it look right.

 

The other thing is, try to make use of the colored lighting.  The palette in D64 is really neutral and bland, and on their own the textures don't look great... because they're sort of a canvass for the colored lighting.  It takes some getting used to, but once you get a few good combinations of wall/floor/ceiling colors going, I think you'll really appreciate how it opens things up.

 

Edit:  One thing I should mention, when you do choose colors, try to desaturate the "thing" color a little more than the other colors.   It really makes things pop out, and doesn't give off that oversaturated PSX monocolor type look.

Ohhh, righto. I haven't touched the colour part yet because I wanted to get the mapping done then go back over it all and play around with colours but if this wasn't a community project I wouldn't use colour's at all. I think they're not that great tbh.