Tango Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) ******* May 20 2019 note: I have posted a new, significantly improved version of this mapset in this thread: Please check that version out if you're interested in playing Paradise! The original post for the 2018 version of Paradise is still below in the spoiler if you really want to play it, but be warned that the 2019 version linked above is much better. ******* Spoiler More screenshots: Spoiler 3 small-to-medium-sized maps, built for/with a custom gameplay mod. Tested in GZDoom 3.3.0 and above. You can update your copy of GZDoom here. >>>> DOWNLOAD <<<< (last updated: Dec 8 2018, final version) The maps run map01 through map03. All difficulty modes have been balanced.. Nightmare difficulty is replaced by Ultra-Randomized, which is identical to Ultra-Violence except that a handful of monsters are randomly replaced by some variants (eg Imp sometimes replaced by Dark Imp). UV on your first playthrough is strongly discouraged. If you fancy a challenge beyond UV, try either Ultra-Randomized, or run the maps on coop (run "map map01 coop" in the console) to play them with about 50% extra monsters. The maps contain ogg soundtracks (converted from vgz to ogg because GZDoom crashed with the original vgz files). If you would prefer midi, I have included midi tracks on the map slot + 10. So to listen to map01's midi track, "idmus11", for map02, "idmus12", for map03, "idmus13". Map slots 11 - 14 also contain old, abandoned map scraps that were originally meant for this project, which you are free to use (as with all the other maps in this set). For more info on all of the gameplay changes, see below: Spoiler Damage values are normalized (de-randomized) across the board (with a few exceptions that I haven't gotten to yet). A monster projectile that previously did somewhere between 4 and 12 damage, for example, will now do 8 damage every time. This change applies to both monsters and player weapons. Universal instant weapon switching Most monsters have alternate deaths, which are triggered either randomly, or based on what you attack them with and how far away from them you are. For example, if you kill a Demon up close with a shotgun, it will almost always play a more gibby death, but the chances are significantly lower if you kill it with a shotgun blast from further away. Pistol, Shotgun, Super Shotgun, and Scrap Gun have reload mechanics (see below); make sure your standard Reload key is bound. Demons walk and bite faster Imp fireballs are a bit faster Zombiemen are replaced by Plasma Zombies, who fire two small plasma shots when they attack Caco projectiles are slower Cacodemons have a bit less health Pain Elementals have a bit less health (they will always die to 2 full SSG blasts now) Lost Souls have significantly less health Cyberdemon has a bit lower health, and can take rocket splash damage now (but still cannot self damage) Baron replaced by Cyber Baron, and can shoot rockets from one arm. Less health than a regular Baron. Hitting it with a non-bullet-based attack once it's at ~25% health can lop its rocket arm off, meaning it can't fire any more rockets. Attacking with a chainsaw and triggering the baron's pain state will guarantee a disarm, regardless of health. Enemy-fired rockets (from Cyberdemon and Cyber Baron) do a bit less damage and have a smaller blast radius. Still pretty potent though. Hell Knight and Cyber Baron projectiles are 33% faster Arachnotron (now called Fusionite) projectiles fire in volleys of 4 fireballs successively, with a small gap in between each volley, instead of a constant stream. New monster: Diabolist. Summons plumes of fire underneath you that explode in unison. Requires LOS to place a plume down. New monster: Tortured Soul. Really similar to a Cacodemon, but during its pain and death states, it lets out some toxic clouds that persist in the area for a few seconds. Pistol has reloading now, with clip size of 6. Bullets can fire much faster and are more powerful than they were before. Shotgun has reloading now, with a shell capacity of 8. Fires more rapidly in between shots, and shots are a wee bit more powerful. If the player is under 50 health, firing and reloading the shotgun is sped up slightly. Super Shotgun has tighter horizontal spread, and fires a few frames faster, but not by much. New weapon: Scrap Gun (slot 4). A projectile shotgun with huge horizontal and vertical spread. Can fire 4 shots before needing to reload. Chaingun is now a Burst Assault Rifle, firing bursts of 3 shots, and has reloading. In a burst, the 2nd bullet does more damage than the 1st, and the 3rd more than the 1st. Rocket launcher fires smaller, faster rockets (different from enemy rockets). More impact damage, less explosion damage and smaller radius. Plasma Rifle now has reloading, and fires in bursts of 3. Each plasma shot does a bit of explosive damage. Paradise doesn't make use of this gun at all though, which is why it's in the sorry state that it is now I highly recommend playing Paradise with @Xaser's DamNums, as I think it can really help visualize all of the gameplay adjustments. Any feedback and criticism is much appreciated! I intend to soon start a development thread for the gameplay mod, so that any interested folks can stay up to date with it as it develops, as I will continue developing it and use it for my future map releases. For detailed credits, see the CREDITS lumps in t-paradise.pk3. ==== TODOs ==== upload to the archive Edited August 8, 2019 by Tango 57 Share this post Link to post
Tango Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) Updated to beta-02, with some difficulty adjustments to map03 for HNTR and HMP Edited May 2, 2019 by Tango 0 Share this post Link to post
elend Posted October 12, 2018 That looks very promising. I will check this out! 1 Share this post Link to post
Dragonfly Posted October 12, 2018 God damnit I don't have time for all these amazing projects! I'll unfortunately be forced to chuck this on my "must play" list, which is looking long enough to entertain me into 2020 at this point. :P Thanks for your effort Tango, I've not played it but the screenshots you've shared from this project are damn beautiful and I really look forward to giving it a whirl! 2 Share this post Link to post
AL-97 Posted October 12, 2018 Tried the first map on UV. Honestly, didn't particularly enjoyed the experience. Difficulty changes feel inspired by Complex Doom on higher difficulties and favours more slow, corner-hugging gameplay rather than a more fluid flow of the unmodded Doom. I would've preferred a version of this mapset without any gameplay and monsters changes. 3 Share this post Link to post
Tango Posted October 12, 2018 sorry to hear that :( would you be able to be more specific about what made you feel like you had to resort to that kind of gameplay? the only thing I can think of in map01 that might make you feel like that is the cyber baron in the sewer, which I definitely ought replace with a hell knight on lower difficulties, but otherwise I've been able to play through uv while being relatively aggressive. there are a lot of the same resources here as in Complex Doom, no doubt, but aside from the cyber baron, there should not be any (new) one shot mechanics, since most of the monster cast has only received slight buffs, if anything 0 Share this post Link to post
Catpho Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) Map01 sure is... something. Your usage of custom monsters is absolutely vicious, a no holds barred beat down with all sort of new demonic tricks. I'm highlighting the Diabolist, as i've never seen a modified version of the arch-vile so troublesome, making players keep watch on their movements at all times. Refreshing to not do the common pillar dance tactic. Other monsters didn't get much room, though the new imps and rocket barons are big challenges. I'll echo AL on the corner-hugging element too: lots of convenient 90 degrees shields. Also, ammo seems to be too tight on UV? I can't seem to get past the Fusionite/Diabolist/imps sandwich without burning through my resources. Ultimately, most of the fun i had with this map is facing the new monsters for the first time, and the "Brutal Doom lite" death system produce some very satisfying carnage :) I'm not so keen on the rest. On a different note, I adore the visuals. Good-looking vibrant and clean, your eye for colors, detailing and architecture is truly unique. Too bad we don't get to see much of the beach in this opener, but this is got to be one of the world's coolest sewers. You also got a thing for jungles and green stuff huh? Demo-y demos (i died at the end of both, patience ran out heh) (GZDoom 3.6.0): paradisetcat01fda.zip Edited October 12, 2018 by Catpho : Heh 2 Share this post Link to post
Tango Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) thanks for the feedback @Catpho:D I think what I'll probably do is just remove all the barons from map01. I didn't mean to encourage the player into any situations where corner camping feels necessary, and I imagine in the tight quarters of map01, it's probably those monsters that are doing it for you guys (correct me if I am wrong though). might also lessen on the imps in the first area on non-UV as well; I think I underestimated how much it'll take to adjust to the diabolist for first-time players. could you clarify what you mean about the reloading? you should be able to use the reload key to reload at will, if I'm understanding correctly 1 Share this post Link to post
Catpho Posted October 12, 2018 Hmm, really? I guess maybe binding the keys wrong. I'll edit it out for now. 0 Share this post Link to post
SiFi270 Posted October 12, 2018 About the reloading, doing it automatically with the fire key alerts enemies, but pressing the actual reload button doesn't. 2 Share this post Link to post
Marlamir Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) Personally i wouldn't be against more screenshots but since i love your maps and mapping style i going to take a look anyway. Plus the one screenshots is teasing me more than enough :) edit: I think the archvile(or whatever he is called) and reloading at the start is kinda op start. I dont like it honestly. edit 2: Ok, so i playing the first map and have to say you really need to rebalance gameplay. For me the realoading is gameplay breaker and i died few times only beacuse i go out of ammo and need to reload. Would be to great have the chance to disable reloading completely. Next thing i think you should do is to add more ammo. However except gameplay i have nothing bad to say, your visuals looks stunning. Awesome job, i really love your level design here. Edited October 12, 2018 by Marlamir 1 Share this post Link to post
SOSU Posted October 12, 2018 DUUUUUUUUUUUUUDE i was playing Mayan Mishap just a few hours ago!!! Looks cool,will play later since i can't use my pc for now...(hope these maps don't have 200+ monsters) 1 Share this post Link to post
Gaia74 Posted October 12, 2018 Without words, the maps look amazing! Great work tango! 1 Share this post Link to post
Tango Posted October 12, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, SiFi270 said: About the reloading, doing it automatically with the fire key alerts enemies, but pressing the actual reload button doesn't. ah thanks for pointing this out! I'll make sure to fix this sounds like map01 could do with some bigger balance changes then, appreciate all the feedback folks! again I think I vastly underestimated how much it takes to adjust to the new changes and monsters, so I'll try to make map01 more of a smooth introduction. will make some changes this evening and reupload Edited October 12, 2018 by Tango 0 Share this post Link to post
Tango Posted October 13, 2018 okie dokie, updated to beta 3. general changes are: more ammo in map01 less monsters/cheese in map01, across all difficulties. should be more straightforward now, if a little tame more variance in map01 for each difficulty setting. HNTR and HMP should be much more manageable now more variance in map02 for each difficulty setting reloading with the fire key when empty will no longer wake up monsters fixed the terrain definitions that were logging missing flat errors in the console fixed the critical (sub-50) HP shotgun blasts so that their damage output is now de-randomized thanks again to everyone who has provided feedback so far! I added a note to the OP as well, but I would definitely advise playing on anything but UV for your first playthrough. I definitely won't rule out yet that I've not balanced map02 and map03 properly (as was the case with map01), but I've tried to balance the maps so that they give me a really solid challenge, even with total map knowledge and acclimation to all the gameplay changes. that said, I want to make sure that there is something fun here for all skill levels, so if you feel there are any more instances of tedious or corner-campy gameplay, please don't hesitate to make it known and I'll try to make the necessary adjustments! 1 Share this post Link to post
Marlamir Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) Gameplay on first level is better now. Gameplay on last two maps is good, chalenging but managable and with very nice visuals. This is awesome wad i really like it. Here is my first map playtrough Edited October 13, 2018 by Marlamir 1 Share this post Link to post
Rathori Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) Hi there! I've just played through all three maps on UV with 99%, 100%, and 91% kills, and thought I'd post my feedback. First of all, I love the visuals, sounds and most of the adjustments. Most of the weapons feel great, and even the pistol is satisfying to use. The WAD feels like a professionally made product, if you ask me. I'm definitely going to check out your other maps :) Map 01 is well-balanced, maybe even a bit on the easy side: I think I only died two times, both of them to the crushers combined with my stupidity. I died more on map 02, but it didn't really feel unfair, and no save-scumming was involved. Map 03, however, was a HUGE difficulty spike for me, and I only managed to beat it with over-the-top save-scumming in several fights. You pretty much get no ammo for anything other that Scrap Gun, and if you're not familiar with how it works you end wasting a lot of shots and getting ripped apart by the mobs. There's also a lot of slime in most of the arenas, as if manoeuvring through hordes of monsters while being attacked by multiple AVs (and an occasional cyberdemon) isn't hard enough. Also, it really felt like the Rocket Launcher was too weak on this map--it doesn't do its usual job of clearing wide areas and you don't get enough nearly rockets to cut through the monsters blocking your shots at the archviles in the first cyberdemon area. And the only secret was a 25% medikit :( Some more nitpicks: - Three shotguns on one button is confusing, I kept getting lost during weapon switching, resulting in death most of the times. - Music isn't looped and just restarts abruptly, but I assume it's because this is still a work-in-progress. - Total amount of shotgun (and Scrap Gun) ammo isn't shown anywhere, it just stays on 0/50 no matter what, which makes Map 03 even more tense, because you don't know how many shot you've got until you end up without any ammo at all. - No secrets on Map 01? :'( And a bug: PG ammo counter doesn't work correctly - it shows the ammo count in your backpack instead of the number of shots in the clip, and it doesn't decrease when firing, only when reloading (I IDKFAed after beating the WAD to see what PG looks like, since you mentioned some work on it has already been done). There's also the broken berserk, but you know that already. Btw, PG is not in any of the levels yet, is it? Edited October 13, 2018 by Rathori 1 Share this post Link to post
Tango Posted October 13, 2018 (edited) thanks so much for the kind words and feedback @Rathori! very much appreciated. Quote Map 03, however, was a HUGE difficulty spike for me, and I only managed to beat it with over-the-top save-scumming in several fights. You pretty much get no ammo for anything other that Scrap Gun, and if you're not familiar with how it works you end wasting a lot of shots and getting ripped apart by the mobs. yeah, I feel that. I'm not sure how I feel about making UV easier on map03 yet, but I will definitely think about it now. I tried to make map03 on UV just a wee bit out of reach for me, but not insurmountable. I think again though I underestimated how much it takes to adjust to the new changes (notably the scrap gun in this case). I've only got one map for the scrap gun though, so I figured I would just go all out with it haha. I think it would be easier to justify this map being this difficult if it was one of the last maps in a larger set, but as it stands, it leads to a big difficulty spike, as you note. will definitely keep in mind some minor balance changes for map03 though. Quote There's also a lot of slime in most of the arenas, as if manoeuvring through hordes of monsters while being attacked by multiple AVs (and an occasional cyberdemon) isn't hard enough. :DDDD Quote - Three shotguns on one button is confusing, I kept getting lost during weapon switching, resulting in death most of the times. this has happened to me too actually :( but I'm not sure the most elegant way to solve this. putting it on 2 or 4 seems kind of weird given those are bullet weapons, and 5 is a no-go because I don't want the player to accidentally rocket themselves trying to get to it. maybe slot 2 makes the most sense after all? Quote - Total amount of shotgun (and scrapgun) ammo isn't shown anywhere, it just stays on 0/50 no matter what, which makes Map 03 even more tense, because you don't know how many shot you've got until you end up without any ammo at all. hmm that is weird. what HUD were you using? I should probably have mentioned that the wad comes with a custom hud, which should appropriately show all primary and secondary ammo counts (see Marlamir's video here). I am not sure if the default vanilla hud is equipped to handle secondary ammo counts in ZDoom at all, but I admit I haven't looked into it and have only be focusing on the custom hud Quote - Music isn't looped and just restarts abruptly, but I assume it's because this is still a work-in-progress. thanks for noting this! will make sure this gets fixed so things are a little more elegant Quote Btw, PG is not in any of the levels yet, is it? you are correct! I want to turn the PG into something more exciting and mechanically demanding, as I have grown to find the vanilla PG somewhat boring. what is currently in the wad now is just one iteration of what I was working on, but not one I would consider a success. I want to explore turning it into something like the shock rifle from UT, which rewards timing and aiming a bit more, but I haven't gotten there yet as these maps don't even make use of the PG. Quote - No secrets on Map 01? :'( no :( there was one but I cut it out as it was part of a small area that I blocked off during rebalancing. I'm generally not really sure how to treat secrets because I'm not sure how to use them without throwing off the balance I'm looking for, but maybe I'm just being too stingy Edited October 15, 2018 by Tango 1 Share this post Link to post
Firedust Posted October 13, 2018 This is awesome! Will you make any more? Pretty please! 2 Share this post Link to post
Rathori Posted October 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tango said: maybe slot 2 makes the most sense after all? For what it's worth, I kept trying to select it with '4', but I have no logical explanation for this. Perhaps because it has 4 barrels? :D 5 minutes ago, Tango said: what HUD were you using? I was using vanilla HUD, but I can't remember changing any HUD options in GZDoom (doesn't mean I didn't change something, though). I'll try playing around with the settings. 8 minutes ago, Tango said: I'm generally not really sure how to treat secrets because I'm not sure how to use them without throwing off the balance I'm looking for The ones you have in the levels seem good--they're neither too easy nor too hard to find, and the rewards seem fair. Although the one on Map 03 is a bit anticlimactic given the difficulty of the map, but on the other hand, it's probably the easiest one to find. That reminds me: there seem to be two berserk pack secrets in Map 02. Perhaps one of them could be changed to something else, like a soul sphere? 2 Share this post Link to post
Tango Posted October 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Rathori said: For what it's worth, I kept trying to select it with '4', but I have no logical explanation for this. Perhaps because it has 4 barrels? :D haha okay slot 4 it is then! 1 minute ago, Rathori said: The ones you have in the levels seem good--they're neither too easy nor too hard to find, and the rewards seem fair. Although the one on Map 03 is a bit anticlimactic given the difficulty of the map, but on the other hand, it's probably the easiest one to find. That reminds me: there seem to be two berserk pack secrets in Map 02. Perhaps one of them could be changed to something else, like a soul sphere? aha good call, thank you! yeah I will change that up. I'll also try to add something more substantial to map03 for a secret or 2. I guess if any map can justify meaty secrets, it would be that one 2 Share this post Link to post
Tango Posted October 13, 2018 updated OP with beta 4. changes are: added small secret to map01 fixed up secret rewards in map02 cleaned up automap in map02 fixed the berserk normalized fist damage moved scrap gun to slot 4 (and added a note of this in the weapon's pickup message) 2 Share this post Link to post
Lazorinc Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) There are a lot of things about this that are fantastic. The custom enemies are the coolest I've seen in an actual wad since Dead.Air, the music fits great with all aspects of running through this jungle, and the maps are super detailed. https://imgur.com/a/cLqNdpC and then I got stuck in a voodoo doll sector on Map 03. It's a great wad, but it needs a few cleanups. I found myself running out of ammo near the end of Map 02, and just had to bolt past everything. I feel like this would be easily fixed if the Cyber Barons dropped a rocket or two when they died. It makes enough sense, and I feel like it would be a great help to the flow. Also I really wanna play Map 03 without cheating, so could you please fix the player start. Thanks 1 Share this post Link to post
Tango Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) lol what the hell that issue keeps happening even though I'm not touching the player starts. will fix and reupload posthaste, thanks for pointing out! @Lazorinc what difficulty setting were you playing on map02 where you ran out of ammo? the suggestion of cyber barons dropping rockets is a good one though, I will very strongly consider that. thanks so much for the kind words though :D edit: updated OP with beta 5: contains fixed player starts for map03 fixed the berserk icon in the new HUD fixed map01 not having damaging nukage whoops I will also do some more testing of map02 and see where ammo can be adjusted. Edited October 14, 2018 by Tango 1 Share this post Link to post
Tango Posted October 15, 2018 updated OP with beta 6: removed a good chunk of the blood/gib code. the only visible difference is that there is no longer any dripping ceiling blood, but otherwise everything else should be the same from the player's perspective. I'm using a modified version of Ketchup and there are a lot of code paths/actors that are never actually spawned, so I did my best to remove some low-hanging fruit. there is still a lot of extra code in there that's quite disorganized, but I'm not too keen on trying to surgically remove that stuff anytime soon fixed the berserk for real fixed those stealth cacos in map02 on HMP and up. those were supposed to be regular cacos still intend to take another look at map02's ammo balance, and very likely add rockets as dropitems for cyber barons (maybe with a cvar to allow you to turn this off). 2 Share this post Link to post
Lazorinc Posted October 15, 2018 Quick tip, the Player 1 spawn will always spawn the player in the NEWEST one, so I suggest making a new one for the spawn point after you're done with every update. You probably already know this, but it couldn't hurt. Also I was on UV, so it makes more than enough sense that I was dry, and I could just be blind too. 1 Share this post Link to post
Rathori Posted October 15, 2018 (edited) On 10/14/2018 at 2:41 AM, Tango said: moved scrap gun to slot 4 (and added a note of this in the weapon's pickup message) I just played up to Map 03 again, and it seems Scrap Gun has found its way back into slot 3 (the message says it's slot 4). Like the new secrets, btw, and shame about the stealth cacos - I thought they were pretty cool. Edited October 15, 2018 by Rathori 1 Share this post Link to post
Tango Posted October 15, 2018 man I am a total dumbass when it comes to properly testing changes. thanks @Rathori, will fix that later today 0 Share this post Link to post