Paradise (looking for testers for v2!)

[Tango]

updated OP with beta 7. changes:

• thanks to a great suggestion by @Lazorinc, Cyber Barons now drop two rockets on death. this behavior can be toggled in the menu (Options -> Paradise Options -> CyberBarons drop rocket ammo), but is enabled by default. map restart not required to change the behavior; the setting is checked every time the monster dies, so changing the setting will take instant effect
• causing the Cyber Baron to enter its pain state with the chainsaw causes instant disarming, regardless of the monster's HP. this means the chainsaw is now sort of a specialized tool against Cyber Barons for making them less dangerous, at the cost of needing to get up in their face in order to hit them with it
• the Scrap Gun is now properly in slot 4 (thanks @Rathori)
• made some minor fixes to map02 - 04, but nothing the player will notice probably (minor cosmetic things, mostly)
• fixed the game's startup title (what you see at the top of the small window when GZDoom is booting up) to read "Paradise" instead of my previous temporary title of "Beachy Beach"

 

map02's ammo hasn't been touched at all, so I'm curious to see if anyone else encounters issues with it. I was able to get through it tonight on UV somewhat comfortably (had to dip into bullet ammo a lot though), but I'll continue to keep my eye on this as I/others test

[Tango]

updated OP with beta 8. changes:

• replaced the title music with one that I like better. was Select from Hyper Duel, is now Do U R [Staff Roll] from Grounseed
• removed a teeny bit of ammo from, and added a few monsters to, map01 on easy difficulties
• added a different titlemap with a bit more effort put into it. would rather have some cool graphic instead I think, but this is good enough for me
• added intermission graphics (custom to each map)
• added an M_DOOM graphic (just the standard, default one but with green on the letters instead of red)
• tried to clean up the audio loops for the ogg music. this was a really painful task and I'm pretty unused to dealing with trying to loop audio cleanly, but I think this is an improvement nonetheless. definitely not perfect, but good enough for me. it would have been better if the vgz files just worked in GZDoom :(
• replaced the midi for map03. was Sigma Fortress 1 from Mega Man X, is now Axle the Red's theme from Mega Man X5

 

I didn't do extensive testing of this beta but hopefully nothing is horribly broken. I at least tested all player starts and they're good to go. the last major item on my list is further refinements for easy and medium difficulties, and then I'll probably work on a text file and try to release this thing officially

Edited November 20, 2018 by Tango

[Tango]

updated OP with beta 9. gettin real close to being ready to call this finalized. gist of the changes:
 

• added some slightly modified sprites for stimpack, medkit, and rocket box. just some minor color tweaks and minor size changes
• added smooth rev ball and baron ball death sprites from smooth doom
• added a bit of ammo and health to map02 and map03 on UV
• cleaned up the automap for map03
• made map01 a tad bit more difficult on UV again

[Dreadopp]

I've seen a few screenshots of this and it looks awesome. The one on the first post is excellent. :)

 

Will give this a play through when I can.

[Tango]

updated OP with beta 10. the only essential component missing now is a textfile. lots of changes here, but here's a summary:

• major difficulty balance adjustments to all maps on Easy and Medium. map02 and map03 in particular were still insanely difficulty on Easy, so that has been fixed
• replaced Nightmare difficulty with Ultra-Randomized. this is just like Ultra-Violence, but with some randomized monster variants. for example, imps are randomly replaced by dark imps (which throw 3 slower fireballs instead of 1 fast one). the only monsters that have variants at this point are imps, chaingun guys (see below), hell knights (see below), and cacodemons. I have not balanced the maps whatsoever for this mode, but it can be used to spice up your playthrough if you've already conquered UV
• added Pyro Demon as variant to hell knights, though they are unused outside of Ultra-Randomized mode. they throw a fiery comet that explodes into little bits of floor fire, which linger for a few seconds and will damage you if you walk over them
• added Machinegun Guy variant to chaingun guys. basically the same as chaingun guys, but they shoot in bursts of 3 (like the player's own AR)
• added heaps of monsters to map01 and map02 on multiplayer. I haven't tried these maps on multiplayer and don't imagine anyone else will since they won't work in Zandronum, so the extra monsters on coop are essentially for solo Ultra-Ultra-Violence runs. in GZDoom, you can play a map in coop by typing "map map01 coop" in the console, and it'll go to that map in coop mode in whatever difficulty you were already in before. I would like to give map03 the same treatment before a final release. the maps were not balanced from the start for these extra monster counts, so your mileage may vary as far as fun goes. but if you're like me and wish sometimes that the maps had 50% more monsters, then coop mode is for you!
• added abandoned/scrap maps in the map11, map12, and map13 slots. these are in various states of playability, but they do all have player starts. these maps are maps that I intended to use for this project but ditched for one reason or another, but I've put them here in case anyone else would like to use them
• added menu options (CVARs) to toggle whether Plasma Zombies drop clips upon death (just like regular zombies in vanilla), and whether they drop their gun that snaps in half on death (which is purely cosmetic). the clip dropping defaults to off, as the maps were balanced without it, but might be worth turning on if you're concerned about ammo

[Tango]

updated OP with beta 11. this might be the final release! I'll let things sit a few days though just in case anything pops up. otherwise I intend to upload to the idgames archive after a few days. summary of changes:

 

• the Draugr (rev replacement) now has brightmaps
• there is now a text file, which includes a bunch of mostly-useless map trivia for any interested parties
• the maps and the gameplay mod are combined into a single pk3 now

 

also added 2 more screenshots to the OP

 

Edited November 13, 2018 by Tango

[Lazorinc]

Final release? Damn, I was so excited to see this keep going, that green Sunlust-y map had me hooked. Coming back after a load of updates feels like I'm playing an entirely different game.

 

Playing through it again, my old ammo problems seemed to have disappeared. The only thing that I can't get behind is the moving of the Scrapper to slot 4. Sure it balances out the weapon numbers in each slot, but it's a shotgun, there's a pre-established norm that they go in slot 3, and it's killed me a couple of times forgetting that it's in 4 (ironically the exact opposite of why it was changed).

 

Other than that, the arcade feel is absolutely stunning as usual, even in mechanics. Using the Diabolist's fire to clear crowds felt natural, if risky. Chainsawing a Cyber-Baron to lob of the rocket launcher has made the chainsaw an actually useful weapon for possibly the first time ever. The only misbalance I feel is that the Scraper does not mix with Cyberdemons, which is what's heavily implied in map 03. 

 

I really hope there's a way I can convince you otherwise to keep this going, because it's too good to stop with more scrap maps then finished.

[Tango]

2 hours ago, Lazorinc said:

Final release? Damn, I was so excited to see this keep going, that green Sunlust-y map had me hooked. Coming back after a load of updates feels like I'm playing an entirely different game.

 

haha thanks for all the kind words mate! much appreciated, and glad you took a second look.

 

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Playing through it again, my old ammo problems seemed to have disappeared. The only thing that I can't get behind is the moving of the Scrapper to slot 4. Sure it balances out the weapon numbers in each slot, but it's a shotgun, there's a pre-established norm that they go in slot 3, and it's killed me a couple of times forgetting that it's in 4 (ironically the exact opposite of why it was changed).

 

yeah I can see your point here. it has taken me a lot of getting used to as well, and I don't think there is a perfect solution to the issue. either it's in the shotguns which makes cycling shotguns really difficult on the fly, or it's in a somewhat illogical slot but more accessible

 

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The only misbalance I feel is that the Scraper does not mix with Cyberdemons, which is what's heavily implied in map 03. 

 

would you be able to clarify what you mean by that? are you referring to the fact that fighting a cyb is a little awkward with the range of the scrap gun?

 

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I really hope there's a way I can convince you otherwise to keep this going, because it's too good to stop with more scrap maps then finished.

 

no convincing necessary :D in this case, I am using "final release" to signify that this is *a* complete package that I'm comfortable calling done, for what it contains, and not necessarily that I never intend to revisit this set. I do actually intend to build more maps like this and probably update Paradise, so I'm not treating Paradise as immutable from here forward. however, I want some relatively complete experience that I can release and upload to the archives, even if I make a potentially significant update to it later. so that is all to say: I'm calling this "final" but will probably add more maps at a later date

 

again, really appreciate the feedback and kind words, means a lot.

 

 

also, don't know if I noted this anywhere else yet, but in the coming weeks I'll post a development thread for the standalone gameplay mod, and that thread will contain an ongoing list of downloads for any speedmaps I've made for the gameplay mod (which is all speedmaps I've done in the last many many months). they'll be not as refined as Paradise since they're speedmaps, but it'll nonetheless be stuff to play that's specific to this gameplay mod

[Lazorinc]

I understand the work that goes into a tc like this, and it deserves the words. I guess what I mean about the Scrap Gun is that it's a little under-oomphy with what it shoots, and this only doubles whenever it's used against the amount of health a Cyber has, like for the blue key bit in Hyper Safari.

 

I'd honestly just suggest polling to see what people would rather have for the slot of that gun. Since it seems pretty divided, and there's no really good answer, let's just have mob rule reign over this one. 

 

It's good to hear that this is still going, I need more content so that it's possible to shill this out in a stream.

[Scotty]

Just had a go through this, really cool stuff. The overall style is neat and the music was awesome in an old school Megadrive/Genesis type way (also SOR2 sound effects in the menus = yay!). I can't wait to see the next 'episode' cause that teaser map looks brilliant.

 

Map wise this was generally my kinda thing, barrels are rampant and there were loads of tricky lock ins and such, so yeah it was really fun. Couple of small things...

- The start of map01 is hilariously brutal compared to the remainder of the map (and most of map02 really) mainly due to not, at that point, understanding how the red vile attack works. On replay it is much easier (ie once you understand how to dodge attacks) but blind it is pretty nasty.

- At the start of map03 you can straferun onto this ledge at a certain angle and softlock yourself in the pit behind there.

 

Mod stuff:

- Being able to destory the Cyber Noble's rocket launcher is cool and it i appreciated the attention to detail on having it remain destroyed when they get resurrected.

- The pistol is actually super fun here cause you can hammer mouse 1 for satisfying rapid fire. I kinda wish the mag was a little bigger but it's not a major issue really.

- Rocket launcher felt just a little off despite having (i think) a slightly increased fire rate - like the rockets don't do splash damage any more? Just my imagination, perhaps...

- Once i understood how it worked, i actually really liked the Scrap Gun - it seems to become much more powerful at close range and so encourages you to get in the face of the enemies, which is always fun. I managed to take down the Cyb at the end of map03 quicker than using SSG/plasma in vanilla so i don't think it's underpowered or whatever personally.

- In this screenshot you can see some sprites floating in mid air, not sure what that's about although it might be my outdated GZDoom (3.2.5). Just posting in case...

- If it is possible to default to your custom HUD somehow i think you should implement it, because stupid people like me will not read things and play with the default Doom HUD :D

[Tango]

7 hours ago, Scotty said:

Just had a go through this, really cool stuff. The overall style is neat and the music was awesome in an old school Megadrive/Genesis type way (also SOR2 sound effects in the menus = yay!). I can't wait to see the next 'episode' cause that teaser map looks brilliant.

 

thanks so much for the kind words mate :D really appreciate it, glad to hear you had a good time

 

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- The start of map01 is hilariously brutal compared to the remainder of the map (and most of map02 really) mainly due to not, at that point, understanding how the red vile attack works. On replay it is much easier (ie once you understand how to dodge attacks) but blind it is pretty nasty.

 

yeah that makes a lot of sense. I want to keep UV the way it is as I'm warning people not to play UV anyway on their first attempt, but maybe HMP and HNTR could use a berserk pack in that arena or something, or some armor? something to make it a bit more forgiving

 

 

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- At the start of map03 you can straferun onto this ledge at a certain angle and softlock yourself in the pit behind there.

 

whoops. thanks for pointing this out, I've fixed this and it'll be part of the next release

 

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- Rocket launcher felt just a little off despite having (i think) a slightly increased fire rate - like the rockets don't do splash damage any more? Just my imagination, perhaps...

 

yeah it has much less splash damage, and in a smaller radius. that was my attempt at balancing out the faster rate of fire and projectile speed. a direct impact (with splash damage) does something like 185 damage I think? whereas in vanilla, I think a direct rocket hit can do something like 230+. I'm happy with how it is for the sake of this mapset, as I have balanced things around the current rocket properties, but it's something I'll be reconsidering down the line. I wanted the RL to be a weapon that rewards precision more, but that means greatly reducing the utility you get from splash damage. so yeah, I'll be rethinking this in the future for sure

 

 

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- In this screenshot you can see some sprites floating in mid air, not sure what that's about although it might be my outdated GZDoom (3.2.5). Just posting in case...

 

ah thanks for pointing this out! I've had this happen to me sometimes too :( not sure what's causing it exactly, but it must be something ketchup related (since the gib system here is based on ketchup). probably not something I intend to fix in the near future because debugging ketchup is so cumbersome, but it's nice to see some corroboration of the issue at least

 

 

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- If it is possible to default to your custom HUD somehow i think you should implement it, because stupid people like me will not read things and play with the default Doom HUD :D

 

good call, don't know why I didn't attempt to do this before. this will be in the next release, though with the limitations of SBARINFO, it means the default doom HUD will be replaced entirely, which is fine by me since it's not even functional with this mod anyway

[Tango]

updated OP with beta 12, which is hopefully the final version. I will probably go ahead and just upload this to the archives tomorrow. if anything critical comes up, I can always upload a new version to the archives, but for now I think this ought to be good to go. summary of changes:
 

• fixed the player being able to run out of bounds in the start of map03
• adjusted map01 on HNTR/HMP so that there is a berserk pack at the start, to top you off after the initial diabolist fight
• changed the plasma zombie clip drop to a "half" clip, with 5 bullets instead of 10 (as is the case in the vanilla game). pickup message for half clip accurately reflects that you get 5 vs 10
• replaced the default doom HUD with the new one, so that you have to use the new one (default doom hud was broken with this mod anyway)

Edited December 9, 2018 by Tango

[Tango]

updated OP with the final final final version!! only change I made in this version is a correction to the green armor pickup message; thanks DabbingSquidward on the ZDoom forums for pointing that out. huge thanks to everyone who played and provided feedback! I will be uploading this to the idgames archive shortly.

 

I've been toiling away on a set of maps that is the continuation of Paradise (previewed in the outro map), so for anyone looking for more stuff like this, hold tight for a few more months :D

[ReX]

Fantastic map set; the screenshots definitely don't disappoint! I've put up a little review at DooM Nexus.

[Tango]

cheers @ReX, thank you so much for not only taking the time to play, but to record your thoughts in a review :D very much appreciated all the kind words and criticisms. I plan to expand on these maps in the near-ish future with another handful to add to the pack, so I'll be sure to revisit the shell/scrap ammo balance on NTR. I can also appreciate that not everyone will be a fan of the music haha. I think in a future release, I might try to add a toggle in the menu between midi tracks and these VGM tracks so that it's a little more clear you can switch between the two, instead of relying on the player to idmus to the map11-13 tracks to get midi.

 

thanks again ReX :D

[ReX]

13 hours ago, Tango said:

... and criticisms.

Not really criticisms, more nitpicks and comments based on personal preference. As for the music, it reminded me of MegaMan, the 1990s console side-scroller. As I said, in terms of musical quality all the tracks are excellent; it's just that, at first, I felt they were out of place.

[Tango]

 

I'm currently very very close to release-ready for a v2, which includes a handful more maps and a few other small updates. if anyone is interested in lending a hand for some final playtesting, that would be much appreciated :D feel free to either PM me or leave a comment here if you've any interest.

 

I intend to release a public v2 beta in the next week or two regardless though!

[Archanhell]

Though right now I'm doing a few playthroughs of other Mods with Project Brutality, I may be able to help you playtesting one of those days, maybe by the week (If I'm not busy with other stuff :p)

I have never helped someone with playtesting before an public release of a map/wad so that would be cool.

[Tango]

4 hours ago, Archanhell said:

Though right now I'm doing a few playthroughs of other Mods with Project Brutality, I may be able to help you playtesting one of those days, maybe by the week (If I'm not busy with other stuff :p)

I have never helped someone with playtesting before an public release of a map/wad so that would be cool.

 

that would be stellar mate :D any help at all would be much appreciated. I'll DM you tomorrow with the mod, and if you're able to play, whenever you're able to play, that would be excellent!

[Rathori]

I'd also love to give it a go sometime around the weekend. And I hope there'll be some invisi-cacos in it :P

[Tango]

1 minute ago, Rathori said:

I'd also love to give it a go sometime around the weekend. And I hope there'll be some invisi-cacos in it :P

 

ahaha don't hold your breath :p I still hate stealth monsters just as much as I did the first time around!!

 

that would be swell though! would be a pleasure to get you to play again. I'll DM you a link tomorrow as well, play it at your leisure of course though!

[Archanhell]

1 hour ago, Tango said:

 

that would be stellar mate :D any help at all would be much appreciated. I'll DM you tomorrow with the mod, and if you're able to play, whenever you're able to play, that would be excellent!

 

Sure mate, today I just played a part of the first map and so far it's good, having hardcore monsters here and there. :p

[Tango]

3 minutes ago, Archanhell said:

 

Sure mate, today I just played a part of the first map and so far it's good, having hardcore monsters here and there. :p

haha sweet! I've made a bunch of updates to the maps that aren't yet posted in this thread, so hold tight and I'll send you the most up-to-date beta of version 2 tomorrow!

[Archanhell]

8 minutes ago, Tango said:

haha sweet! I've made a bunch of updates to the maps that aren't yet posted in this thread, so hold tight and I'll send you the most up-to-date beta of version 2 tomorrow!

 

Alright, then I'll wait!

[Rathori]

30 minutes ago, Tango said:

 

ahaha don't hold your breath :p I still hate stealth monsters just as much as I did the first time around!!

 

Well I liked them the first time I ran into them in Paradise, and I blame you for it 'cause you put them there :P

 

The pleasure is mine. I was actually wondering if you were doing something with Paradise or its gameplay mod part after I saw you post in some other mod thread recently, so I'm glad to see it's avile and kicking :D

[Egg Boy]

Wonderful set of maps, just beat the first 3. The visuals are lovely (sorry if I rip it off at some point). And the gameplay is fast and tense. I especially like the last map. You're going from small arena to small arena and each and every fight is different. Another highlight is in map02. About halfway through the map, there's this section where you're in this enclosed area, but keep unlocking layers, each with more challenging demons than the last.

 

The reason I hadn't decided to play this for so long was two-fold, 1: it was GZDoom exclusive, and I'm not usually a fan of that, unless it's something crazy. 2: The gameplay is changed drastically. Both of these were not an issue at all (besides mouselook in GZDoom). The mapset was specifically designed around the balance of the gameplay mod, so the difficulty feels just right (though I did notice there were times where I would die and have no idea what killed me). Some things that really stuck out to me was the Archvile (the first one you meet, not the other one), in a lot of ways this version is superior than the one that appears in vanilla Doom 2. The flame pillar isn't a guaranteed hit as long as you stay on the move, but forces you to be careful when there are other projectiles to dodge, because if you move back to where the active pillar is, you will take damage. Really smart stuff. Personally, I would have removed all hitscan, which is what I assumed you were doing with the former human carrying a weaker plasma rifle. Also, when fighting the blue chaingunners for the first time, I picked up the rifle they drop, but the reload animation had to play before I could fire so I got fucked. Other than that, I thought the gameplay changes were pretty great overall, and gave the set it's own unique feel.

[Vyre]

I'd be glad to help playtest it as well, the screenshots are great :D

[Tango]

7 hours ago, Egg Boy said:

Wonderful set of maps, just beat the first 3.

 

you are a gem, thanks so much Egg Boy :D

 

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The visuals are lovely (sorry if I rip it off at some point).

 

haha feel free! it would be great to see more jungly maps around. on a related note, I do intend to release all these dark metal texture recolors as a standalone texture resource at some point soon

 

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I especially like the last map. You're going from small arena to small arena and each and every fight is different. Another highlight is in map02. About halfway through the map, there's this section where you're in this enclosed area, but keep unlocking layers, each with more challenging demons than the last.

really glad to hear you enjoyed it :D I've been trying to not rely too much on arena lockins but it's a big weakness of mine haha, so if you enjoy map03's gameplay, the new maps for the upcoming v2 should tickle your fancy as well!
 

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The reason I hadn't decided to play this for so long was two-fold, 1: it was GZDoom exclusive, and I'm not usually a fan of that, unless it's something crazy. 2: The gameplay is changed drastically.

yeah, pretty understandable. I kind of imagined that here on DW especially, it would be a tougher sell, but that's ok!. for v2 I plan to have a bit more of a graphically informative opening post to hopefully catch folks' attention more, as I don't think I did a very good job with initial presentation on this thread's OP.

 

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Some things that really stuck out to me was the Archvile (the first one you meet, not the other one), in a lot of ways this version is superior than the one that appears in vanilla Doom 2. The flame pillar isn't a guaranteed hit as long as you stay on the move, but forces you to be careful when there are other projectiles to dodge, because if you move back to where the active pillar is, you will take damage. Really smart stuff.

 

awesome to hear that you enjoyed the Diabolist haha. I've become really attached to the monster, as I really like the gameplay setups that it enables, especially when paired with other monsters.

 

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Also, when fighting the blue chaingunners for the first time, I picked up the rifle they drop, but the reload animation had to play before I could fire so I got fucked.

 

haha I can relate to this. I've fixed this in the upcoming updated version by making the player start with all their reloadable guns loaded, thankfully.

 

7 hours ago, Vyre said:

I'd be glad to help playtest it as well, the screenshots are great :D

that would be wonderful, thanks so much :D I'll DM you a link to the updated version this evening!

 

Edited April 15, 2019 by Tango

[Tango]

double post whoops?

[Rathori]

I've managed to get stuck on MAP03 (unless I'm missing something obvious), Extreme difficulty. Not sure if it's a bug, but it feels like it. Spoilered because secrets are kinda involved:

 

Spoiler

- After activating the red key switch and going up the elevator, I went to the switch guarded by two cyberbarons and a couple of zombies, but instead of activating the main switch I hit the one on the back and got teleported near the starting area. I went into the secret sector, found the chainsaw in the bushes, then went back to the elevator and found that both passages on its sides were now locked, and there seems to be no way of unlocking them again.

- The secret sector that I could access after teleporting with the switch was empty. I got the "You have found a secret message", but there were no items in it.

 

Other thoughts so far:

MAP01: Really disappointed to see the Diabolist start removed. I thought it was a cool introduction to the new enemy and its mechanics, although there were a couple of seconds of panic until you found out it's not an Arch-Vile and you could dodge its attacks easily. IMO the map feels kinda bland with it removed.

 

MAP02: Also somewhat smoother gameplay, and the final fight felt a less tight than before, although still challenging.

 

MAP03: The start of the map feels easier than before, I think there used to be more hitscanners instead of the baron? I like how the lock-in arena with teleporting enemies has been balanced: it's not nearly as overwhelming (I guess you must have increased the delay between waves) but it's still challenging. I played on my laptop with awful mouse sensitivity, and I struggled with it less than with v1 on my properly configured desktop rig. I noticed some other fights being toned down a bit too, but they still feel good.

 

Overall the levels feel streamlined in terms of combat--it feels some of strong enemies and flying enemies have been removed. It's still reasonably difficult, but more forgiving than before. The ammo balance seems to be good so far: compared to Paradise v1, there weren't any moments when I felt like I was screwed because I had run out of ammo (I still remember it happening to me in v1 in the cyberdemon arena in MAP03). Progression-wise it's all pretty clear, and so far it's been easy to figure out where to go and what to do. Well, except for that stuck-in-map03 part :P