k8vavoom: no good thing ever dies!

[kb1]

13 hours ago, Graf Zahl said:

Tell that to the people making the schedules. The one universal constant is that these schedules always fail and the pressure is on the developers then.

I do tell them, and it pisses them off. Actually, I usually say "I can lie and give you a completion date, or I can be honest and say that I don't know, followed by weekly progress reports." I realize the difficulty that causes, but, that's just the way it is.

 

11 hours ago, ketmar said:

@Graf Zahl by the way. in GZDoom mus->midi converter, why it does this:

		case MUS_NOTEOFF:
			status |= MIDI_NOTEON;
			mid1 = t;
			mid2 = 0;
			break;

shouldn't it be "MIDI_NOTEOFF"? is it to emulate some DMX bug, or just a typo?

 

p.s.: i see that is simply plays a note with zero volume velocity (whatever that means). this is prolly how DMX did it, yes?

Before I read your "p.s.", I was going to suggest that maybe it means 'play a note without volume or duration.' I think "NOTEOFF" may be similar to plucking a guitar string, then waiting: Sure, you're no longer plucking the string, but it keeps ringing until it fades out. But that's just a guess.

 

[ketmar]

4 hours ago, kb1 said:

Before I read your "p.s.", I was going to suggest that maybe it means 'play a note without volume or duration.' I think "NOTEOFF" may be similar to plucking a guitar string, then waiting: Sure, you're no longer plucking the string, but it keeps ringing until it fades out. But that's just a guess.

actually, i believe that many instruments will decay on their own, and "note off" is not used that often (it is easier to simply replace the note with a new one -- after all, this is how you're playing most real instruments, there is no "note off" switch; but i didn't checked that ;-). so this bug should have almost zero impact (that's why it may lurk unnoticed for decades).

 

but the "volume" error is what may be the cause of this bug. this is not a volume, this is "velocity" (basically, something that tries to emulate how fast you pressing/releasing key, and such). so playing note with zero velocity doesn't stop it, it will simply start playing note at full volume instantly. exactly the opposite of note stopping. ;-)

 

but three days ago i didn't knew how to parse a midi file, let alone midi commands, so i am not sure if i'm right. vavoom mus->midi converter had that commented and replaced with "note off", for example, with velocity 64.

[kb1]

On 7/20/2019 at 2:29 AM, ketmar said:

actually, i believe that many instruments will decay on their own, and "note off" is not used that often (it is easier to simply replace the note with a new one -- after all, this is how you're playing most real instruments, there is no "note off" switch; but i didn't checked that ;-). so this bug should have almost zero impact (that's why it may lurk unnoticed for decades).

Voice muting actually occurs quite a bit, depending on the instruments and the song, of course. Especially for guitar and piano. Instrument voices do decay, each at a different rate. But, often, that rate is way to long.

 

On a real guitar, if you're playing individual notes, you can typically avoid muting when you're on the same string through multiple notes. But, when you switch to a different string, often you'll mute the previous string. On piano, you have to press the foot pedal to avoid muting.

 

But, I don't know that's what was happening above - it was just a guess. I'd have to look in more detail to give a more accurate answer.

 

[ketmar]

my expertise is extraordinarily low here. while i know a thing or two about generic DSP alogs, i don't know a thing about music composing (with computers, or without). i wrote several emulators for AY-8910, but i cannot get even a simplest tune out of them. ;-) so this is sheer curiousity -- i won't dare to change that code, neither in GZDoom, nor in k8vavoom. (sigh)

[kb1]

1 hour ago, ketmar said:

my expertise is extraordinarily low here. while i know a thing or two about generic DSP alogs, i don't know a thing about music composing (with computers, or without). i wrote several emulators for AY-8910, but i cannot get even a simplest tune out of them. ;-) so this is sheer curiousity -- i won't dare to change that code, neither in GZDoom, nor in k8vavoom. (sigh)

I would think that you could may a temporary change, and you'd notice the effect immediately. Like hard-coding one of the parameters (creating a fixed note pitch, or duration), or commenting out the NOTE-OFF case. There are very few parameters, so it's probably pretty easy to play with.

 

My home port is doing the MUS-TO-MIDI conversion on the fly, vs. once at level start. This worked great in Windows, until MS had the bright idea of royally screwing up MIDI support :( I should be able to answer these questions, but I did that a LONG time ago...

 

I took a 5 minute look - I am using NOTEOFF:

		switch (evDesc->event)
		{
			case MUS_EV_RELEASE_NOTE:
			{
				midiStatus = MIDI_NOTEOFF;
				midiParm1  = *musPlayPos++; // Note
				midiParm2  = 0x40;			// Velocity (64)
				musActiveNotes[evDesc->channel] = -1;
				break;
			}

			case MUS_EV_PLAY_NOTE:
			{
				midiStatus = MIDI_NOTEON;
				midiParm1 = *musPlayPos++;

				// Is the volume there, too?
				if (midiParm1 & 0x80) 
					chanVols[evDesc->channel] = *musPlayPos++;

				midiParm1 &= 0x7f;
				midiParm2 = chanVols[evDesc->channel];

				if (midiParm2)
					musActiveNotes[evDesc->channel] = midiParm1;
				else
					musActiveNotes[evDesc->channel] = -1;

				break;					 
			}

I wish I had actually added some comments. I think I might have just grabbed this code from elsewhere, dropped it in, and adapted it to work without really studying exactly how it worked. I messed with it until it sounded right. Maybe it'll help?

 

[ketmar]

yeah, tnx. that is exactly what k8vavoom does too. it seems to be based on some common source -- because in k8vavoom it is "note off" with velocity 64, just like in your code. that "64" makes me think that it came from some old utility.

 

at least now i know that it was used somewhere else too. which makes me think that [G]ZDoom does it wrong due to a typo.

[kb1]

1 hour ago, ketmar said:

yeah, tnx. that is exactly what k8vavoom does too. it seems to be based on some common source -- because in k8vavoom it is "note off" with velocity 64, just like in your code. that "64" makes me think that it came from some old utility.

 

at least now i know that it was used somewhere else too. which makes me think that [G]ZDoom does it wrong due to a typo.

Ok, I found some really good info. It looks like NOTE_ON can be used in place of NOTE_OFF. The 64 is 50% volume, which is meaningless for NOTE_OFF.

 

Here's a nice page describing all the gory details. I guess I'm a geek: I just love informative pages like that!

[Mr.Rocket]

Hi again, I was wondering if you have a logo for k8vavoom yet or you have plans for one?

I've added support for k8vavoom in the Doom Connector client, but for it's download link on the DC page I have no image to place there yet.

 

Thanks

[ketmar]

3 hours ago, kb1 said:

Here's a nice page describing all the gory details. I guess I'm a geek: I just love informative pages like that!

yay, thank you! looks interesting. i like to read such things too, bonus points for thing being absolutely useless for me. ;-)

 

2 hours ago, Mr.Rocket said:

if you have a logo for k8vavoom yet or you have plans for one?

i want it. but i absolutely cannot draw. actually, i can't even describe what i want to see there, besides "it must be cool, and it must have a communist red star on it." ;-)

[Mr.Rocket]

Hmm, do you have a favorite color? 

I hope you're not serious about the red star?

 

 

[ketmar]

5 hours ago, Mr.Rocket said:

I hope you're not serious about the red star?

100% serious. for alot of various reasons this is what i see as a k8vavoom icon -- stylized Red Star.

[wrkq]

... with crossed shotgun and chainsaw inlaid in gold on it?

[ketmar]

1 minute ago, wrkq said:

... with crossed shotgun and chainsaw inlaid in gold on it?

ahem... GREAT IDEA! ;-) it won't look good on a small icon, but it would be great as a big logo. no, really! tnx!

[kb1]

15 hours ago, ketmar said:

yay, thank you! looks interesting. i like to read such things too, bonus points for thing being absolutely useless for me. ;-)

Useless?

[ketmar]

7 hours ago, kb1 said:

Useless?

i mean "i don't really need them to solve my current task". so it is kind of "it is useless for me here and now". maybe this is too strong word, tho. "interesting, but have no immediate use" -- that's what i meant.

[kb1]

16 hours ago, ketmar said:

i mean "i don't really need them to solve my current task". so it is kind of "it is useless for me here and now". maybe this is too strong word, tho. "interesting, but have no immediate use" -- that's what i meant.

Got you! I only mentioned it so you could rest assured that your NOTEOFF/NOTEON code was ok.

[Khorus]

Spent some time playing through most of Doom 2 using the latest release. The engine feels good to play with now, and I really like all the changes to the fullscreen HUD. Probably the best one I've seen!

 

One bug I have noticed is that revenant missiles feel a bit wrong. I think it's just a reduction in homing strength, feels like they don't arc around to follow you as strongly as they should. I still have the missing firing frame on the chaingun and plasma too.

 

Keep up the good work, ketmar! 

[Mr.Rocket]

On 7/23/2019 at 11:58 AM, ketmar said:

100% serious. for alot of various reasons this is what i see as a k8vavoom icon -- stylized Red Star.

Here's a couple ideas with the red star. - just some icon prep for now..

The ones with a ring around looks a bit like a steering wheel when viewed in the taskbar. Also, with the ring, it starts to look a little too much like a flipped over Doom3 icon, which we probably wouldn't want.

Let me know which you like or if you have some other ideas.

The pentagram was just for kicks, because, DooM. But anything could actually go there, if wanted. ~ or nothing there at all, like prep 1 and 2.

Anyway, the red star being center of attention, the background could be anything/any color really..

I can start on a logo/banner thing later if you want, once we have a good icon going.

 

oh btw, don't pay attention to my typo, I didn't notice that I called them k8vavvom until later lol.

 

ps, I remember someone saying something about the exe name, k8vavoom, and he mentioned why not call it KaVoom. I thought it was kind of catchy actually! You'd still have the K.. But you're the Boss.. ;)

 

Edited July 25, 2019 by Mr.Rocket

[ketmar]

9 hours ago, Khorus said:

Spent some time playing through most of Doom 2 using the latest release. The engine feels good to play with now, and I really like all the changes to the fullscreen HUD. Probably the best one I've seen!

thank you!

 

9 hours ago, Khorus said:

One bug I have noticed is that revenant missiles feel a bit wrong. I think it's just a reduction in homing strength, feels like they don't arc around to follow you as strongly as they should.

it shouldn't be the case, but i'll take a look anyway. it is perfectly possible that i broke something.

 

actually, there is a big problem with revenant missiles: their homing state depends on current tick. and vavoom is not lockstep engine, so current tick may deviate a little (because of floating game time), and missiles may be more or less homing (heh) depending of real frame rate. i'm not sure how to solve it yet without breaking various mod code that may depend on such behaviour.

 

9 hours ago, Khorus said:

still have the missing firing frame on the chaingun and plasma too.

yeah, psprite code is still waiting for overhaul. it is (semi)broken on various resolutions and aspects, and 3d weapon models need fixes too. tbh, it only works ok with the resolition and ratio i am using (because i hacked it to work with my case). but i don't understand the math in psprite rendering function yet, and so i don't understand what Janis wanted to do, and how to fix it.

 

9 hours ago, Khorus said:

Keep up the good work, ketmar!

thank you!

 

 

p.s.: next build will get some fixes for sloped floors. you won't be blocked by steep slopes with small height anymore (see "ma_put", for example -- you are unable to exit the starting tube with the current build, for example; or Silent Steel -- it is quite hard to walk over "floor windows" in MAP05, in the room with the turret). also, you won't be accidentally blocked by sloped ceilings anymore (this can happen sometimes, blocking you from walking through absolutely empty space ;-).

Edited July 25, 2019 by ketmar

[ketmar]

8 hours ago, Mr.Rocket said:

Here's a couple ideas with the red star.

thank you alot! i like prep2 and prep5. maybe prep5 without a ring. (i really like the ring, but you're right, it may look too close to Doom3 icon with it.) also, the actual Red Star is somewhat distorted (see this svg for example), if you can do it like that, it will be great.

 

putting crossed shotgun and chainsaw into the inner ring will be great too, but i understand that it won't look good on a small icon (and the symbols prolly won't read good even on a bigger sizes), so having baphomet pentagram there is fine too.

 

so, i prefer red with slight shades and gold. i think it looks best of all. thank you!

 

having the pentagram inside is great, because without it the icon looks like a generic Red Star, yeah. maybe infinity sign can look ok there too, but i don't know, i am totally not an artist, and have almost zero imagination, so i have to see it to tell something. ;-)

 

Quote

I can start on a logo/banner thing later if you want, once we have a good icon going.

yeah, it would be great! thank you.

 

8 hours ago, Mr.Rocket said:

I remember someone saying something about the exe name, k8vavoom, and he mentioned why not call it KaVoom. I thought it was kind of catchy actually!

it is too late. ;-) also, "k" is too generic, while "k8" is short for my name. ;-)

Edited July 25, 2019 by ketmar

[Ferk]

3 hours ago, ketmar said:

it is too late. ;-) also, "k" is too generic, while "k8" is short for my name. ;-)

Imho, k8voom (as in keightvoom) would have been a better option still. k8vavoom is a bit long and it doesn't exactly roll out the tongue.

[ketmar]

anyway, it is too late now, that ship has sailed. i never thought that it won't be a private personal fork, and never bothered with inventing a good name, just used my usual template of taking the project name and prepending "k8" to it. and now it is used in too many places (not only here on DoomWorld).

 

besides, i don't like how "voom" sounds. if i'd planned k8vavoom as a public fork from the start, i'd chose some name that doesn't contain "vavoom" at all, because i don't like any shortened version, and longer versions are hard to pronounce. but alas. anyway, i guess the world has seen much worser names, and i don't think that name change will substantiantly increase k8vavoom popularity anyway.

 

i must admit that i don't like "vavoom" name too.

[Mr.Rocket]

On 7/25/2019 at 8:41 AM, ketmar said:

also, the actual Red Star is somewhat distorted (see this svg for example), if you can do it like that, it will be great.

I see what you mean by the svg image, where the star actually has a slight curve instead of perfectly straight lines. So you're thinking something more like this?

 

[Mr.Rocket]

^ For an Icon anyway, they really can't have much more detail than that in them, as you know when an image is 42x and lower things get pixelized pretty quickly. May even need to take the pentagram out.. :\ But I can place it in a bubble or something and would still be visible around it.

~ btw the above image still needs some work, you might notice one of the arms of the star is about a pixel lower than the other side, easy fix though..

 

But for a logo I could add a thick ring around it and add k8vavoom circular going around inside the ring maybe. - right side up and upside down, like a coin. And maybe infinity symbols inside that, between the text..

The logo can have a ton more detail, if wanted, internal drop shadow on the star, maybe some texture, stuff like that.

 

ps, for some reason, probably my connection, I couldn't edit my previous post..it would just never save..:\

Edited July 26, 2019 by Mr.Rocket

[ketmar]

1 hour ago, Mr.Rocket said:

So you're thinking something more like this?

yeah, exactly! ;-)

 

1 hour ago, Mr.Rocket said:

For an Icon anyway, they really can't have much more detail than that in them

yeah, it will become a pixelised garbage on small sizes. that's why i suggested infinity sign -- it may be easier to read on a small icon.

 

1 hour ago, Mr.Rocket said:

But for a logo I could add a thick ring around it and add k8vavoom circular going around inside the ring maybe. - right side up and upside down, like a coin. And maybe infinity symbols inside that, between the text..

dunno, i think that simple text is enough, with no extra signs in it.

 

1 hour ago, Mr.Rocket said:

The logo can have a ton more detail, if wanted, internal drop shadow on the star, maybe some texture, stuff like that.

yeah, it would be great. the Red Start is usually made to resemble a ruby, and it is not flat. maybe it may be made looking less flat with some shading, or something. the idea is it is a wearable badge, not a sticker. ;-)

 

thank you for your help and efforts!

 

 

p.s.: being happy that k8vavoom may get a logo soon, i managed to squeese 3-5 more FPS from Dark Wispers map with stenciled lighting. it will help maps with huge light sources (those maps usually drops below 60 FPS, so any extra frame matters).

[ketmar]

eh. i was too quick. making lighting faster require some preprocessing, for now it has some visual glitches. it highly depend of map geometry. in Dark Wispers it works flawless. in Doom2:MAP02 it glitches. lol.

 

anyway, i know what is going on, and will try to rework it later.

 

for curious: it tries to skip rendering surfaces that cannot cast shadow. such big FPS impact is due to lights being huge, and there are several of them. so the engine has to clear and refill whole-screen stencil buffer for each light. and shadow volumes are big too. so throwing away, for example, sector floors does a big difference.

 

i already tried to implement something like that, but i tried to detect "all or nothing" -- i.e. can the given light cast shadow or not. now i am trying to do this for each surface.

 

it was a quick hack to check if it worth the efforts. i (almost) know how to write a better algo, but it have to wait a little. anyway, i left the current code in the engine, and it can be turned on in options, as usual. so if you want to trade some lighting correctness for several extra FPS, you will be able to do it.

Edited July 27, 2019 by ketmar

[Mr.Rocket]

On 7/26/2019 at 3:35 PM, ketmar said:

yeah, it would be great. the Red Start is usually made to resemble a ruby, and it is not flat.

?

If it is going to be somewhat like a ruby, I could actually make it translucent and place the pentagram behind it. for the logo anyway, I doubt I could get away with that for the icon though.

These are just rough drafts btw, and I'll migrate to pm's if you would rather.

 

I'm kind of curious of how it would look now with the purple background being a pentagram and a translucent red star ruby sitting on top of it..

The yellow can all be shiny gold, sort of like the first versions I started on.

The red won't be as bright, it will be more of a ruby color.

Edited July 28, 2019 by Mr.Rocket

[ketmar]

2 hours ago, Mr.Rocket said:

and I'll migrate to pm's if you would rather

yeah, i replied you with PM.

[ketmar]

ok. as i had to turn off faster renderer, i decided to make another improvement: i moved sound (and music) loading code completely to background threads. so now you should not have those annoying freezes if you entered a secret, or some other sound played for the first time. sure, if you have HDD, and cold cache (as i do), the first sound may be delayed a little, but i believe that it is better than occasional game freezes.

 

the system seems to work so far, but i'm not sure if it is stable enough. i'm playing with it activated now, and if it won't cause problems, i'll leave it activated for new builds.

[Mr.Rocket]

Nice! I can't wait to check it out!

btw, I notice that the teleport texture isn't animated in Hexen.