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vinnie245

Nightdive Teasing Blood

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While not on topic, I think it is important to mentioned to people laying the boot in to Night Dive studios, especially over the somewhat sad SS1 mishap, that the team are making good of the promise to the KS backers.

 

 

That looks amazing, so I reckon Blood is in very good hands.

 

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I liked what they did with the Turok series, and I haven't been able to get Blood to run well on DOSbox. So this work is welcome.

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5 hours ago, Dragonfly said:

 

Neither myself nor anyone else implied you do have anything against Night Dive? That said, you do kinda give off that vibe. :P I believe it's unintentional on your part, but your tone / persistence in regards to BloodGDX implies something against what NightDive might be doing.

 

I couldn't get into Strife: VE on account of its terrible mouse movement. No matter how much I played around with the numerous settings, something always felt off. The game runs perfectly fine on GZDoom, anyways.

 

edit: Wrong quotation. 

Edited by Ajora

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Quick note: You don't need to install the Java cancer to your PC, you just extract a portable version of it in a folder, then extract BloodGDX there and then the required files from Blood, including the videos if you want. And it all works as-is, your OS/registry is not affected at all.

 

I hope we get to see a proper source port though. BloodGDX has some gfx glitches, especially in RoR areas. And it doesn't incorporate the recent eduke32 mouse control/accuracy improvements.

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I'm going to keep hoping they have something coming. They did this for a reason, and they haven't taken the banner down yet.

 

Maybe they just needed a little more time before the official announcement.

Edited by SonicWind

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Maybe it's a new IP based on Blood called "Bleed."

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1 hour ago, Sparktimus said:

It's clearly going to be Blood Bleeder Remastered. Surprising, since it was taken off the market.

firefox_2018-11-07_16-25-00.png

 

Stupid Blood Mod Idea:  Replace all the weapons and enemies with characters from HomeStar Runner.  The final boss is replaced with Homestar himself and Caleb is replaced by Strong Bad...

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On 11/1/2018 at 2:04 PM, Agent6 said:

 

One word: Java.

 

That's literally the main reason why some of us DOSBox Blood folk avoid it like plague since it's notoriously insecure, so if what Night Dive are cooking is a proper, non Java based source port a la SSEE/SS2EE that's great news in my book.

 

@tempdecal.wad Yeah, I'm aware that nothing came out from the revival he teased back in 2012, but I also noticed he didn't really gave up on the idea since he brought it up again in 2016, so who knows.

Unless you're expecting M210 to have included malicious code in his project, citing security issues as a reason not to use BloodGDX is pretty weak. Most of Java's problems occur in relation to webapplets and holes in the Java Sandbox, particularly related to websites that transmit untrusted code on the fly, and not due to the language itself. It's certainly not a concern when used with a standalone Java program from a trusted source -- in fact you'd have to be more concerned playing vanilla Blood, because the C programming language, which the Build Engine was written in, allows for much greater security holes when used carelessly.

 

A more valid reason not to use BloodGDX is authenticity. There are many subtle differences in the controls, enemy behaviour, palette, etc. in BloodGDX that don't exactly match that of the original Blood executable. People who care about this aspect are likely to also be disappointed with whatever Nightdive will be announcing, because just like with their previous projects, this will probably be implemented using Kex, therefore not providing a 100% authentic experience. It's also not guaranteed that it will be accompanied by a source release -- I faintly remember that Jace Hall (should he be involved), had no plans of releasing the source code, for instance, preferring to do a remake or a remaster instead. (don't quote me on this however, it's been a while since I read that)

 

Another issue is preservation. The original System Shock was removed from Steam once the second Enhanced Edition was released, making the original binary unavailable. This remaster contains a number of changes that make it differ fundamentally, for instance being based on the Kex engine, having several game bugs fixed, different control schemes, etc. Those who do not care about authenticity and game preservation can rechoice of course (or play BloodGDX)

 

For the most part this is an ideological issue. In my opinion though, like Ettingrinder put it, it's better than nothing.

Edited by Doom64hunter

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10 minutes ago, Doom64hunter said:

A more valid reason not to use BloodGDX is authenticity. There are many subtle differences in the controls, enemy behaviour, palette, etc. in BloodGDX that don't exactly match that of the original Blood executable. People who care about this aspect are likely to also be disappointed with whatever Nightdive will be announcing, because just like with their previous projects, this will probably be implemented using Kex, therefore not providing a 100% authentic experience. It's also not guaranteed that it will be accompanied by a source release -- I faintly remember that Jace Hall (should he be involved), had no plans of releasing the source code, for instance, preferring to do a remake or a remaster instead.

 

Another issue is preservation. The original System Shock was removed from Steam once the second Enhanced Edition was released, making the original binary unavailable. This remaster contains a number of changes that make it differ fundamentally, for instance being based on the Kex engine, having several game bugs fixed, different control schemes, etc. Those who do not care about authenticity and game preservation can rechoice of course (or play BloodGDX)

 

For the most part this is an ideological issue. In my opinion though, like Ettingrinder put it, it's better than nothing.

This pretty much expresses my own misgivings better than I could've.  SVE did a good thing by providing the original IWADs for use with alternative ports, but unless I'm mistaken they still don't give the option of getting the original DOS binaries.  I suppose the excuse is "very few people care" but I'm one of those that do.  And Blood, unlike Strife, already has a digital distribution of the original so it's not like this would be putting something out of print back on the market.

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58 minutes ago, Doom64hunter said:

Unless you're expecting M210 to have included malicious code in his project, citing security issues as a reason not to use BloodGDX is pretty weak. Most of Java's problems occur in relation to webapplets and holes in the Java Sandbox, particularly related to websites that transmit untrusted code on the fly, and not due to the language itself. It's certainly not a concern when used with a standalone Java program from a trusted source -- in fact you'd have to be more concerned playing vanilla Blood, because the C programming language, which the Build Engine was written in, allows for much greater security holes when used carelessly.

 

I'm aware of that, but even so I'm still not tempted to use it at this time, even if my reason is fairly weak.

 

58 minutes ago, Doom64hunter said:

I faintly remember that Jace Hall (should he be involved), had no plans of releasing the source code, for instance, preferring to do a remake or a remaster instead. (don't quote me on this however, it's been a while since I read that)

 

As far as I know he actually planned on releasing the source code he had, but couldn't reach an agreement to make that happen. Or something similar, but certainly not because he had no plans of doing it or being unwilling.

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1 hour ago, Doom64hunter said:

Unless you're expecting M210 to have included malicious code in his project, citing security issues as a reason not to use BloodGDX is pretty weak. Most of Java's problems occur in relation to webapplets and holes in the Java Sandbox, particularly related to websites that transmit untrusted code on the fly, and not due to the language itself. It's certainly not a concern when used with a standalone Java program from a trusted source -- in fact you'd have to be more concerned playing vanilla Blood, because the C programming language, which the Build Engine was written in, allows for much greater security holes when used carelessly.

 

A more valid reason not to use BloodGDX is authenticity. There are many subtle differences in the controls, enemy behaviour, palette, etc. in BloodGDX that don't exactly match that of the original Blood executable. People who care about this aspect are likely to also be disappointed with whatever Nightdive will be announcing, because just like with their previous projects, this will probably be implemented using Kex, therefore not providing a 100% authentic experience. It's also not guaranteed that it will be accompanied by a source release -- I faintly remember that Jace Hall (should he be involved), had no plans of releasing the source code, for instance, preferring to do a remake or a remaster instead. (don't quote me on this however, it's been a while since I read that)

 

Another issue is preservation. The original System Shock was removed from Steam once the second Enhanced Edition was released, making the original binary unavailable. This remaster contains a number of changes that make it differ fundamentally, for instance being based on the Kex engine, having several game bugs fixed, different control schemes, etc. Those who do not care about authenticity and game preservation can rechoice of course (or play BloodGDX)

 

For the most part this is an ideological issue. In my opinion though, like Ettingrinder put it, it's better than nothing.

 

If I'm not mistaken, Jace is legally barred from releasing the source code, so he could not do that even if he wanted to.  The main problem with Blood's source code is that Warner Brothers holds the IP so any decisions on that ultimately go through them.  

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@Doom64hunter

BloodGDX has the wrong palette and doesn't look fully faithful, also it's true it has fixed some control issues. But enemy behaviour is replicated accurately, hlitches included, the programmer has been testing demos and they do not desync. I think it also has some RoR glitches. But it is a reasonably faithful port with many improvements over the buggy original.

 

Don't know why you're talking about preservation. The original binaries+data are not getting lost and Dosbox provides faithful emulation.

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9 hours ago, VGA said:

@Doom64hunter

BloodGDX has the wrong palette and doesn't look fully faithful, also it's true it has fixed some control issues. But enemy behaviour is replicated accurately, hlitches included, the programmer has been testing demos and they do not desync. I think it also has some RoR glitches. But it is a reasonably faithful port with many improvements over the buggy original.

 

Don't know why you're talking about preservation. The original binaries+data are not getting lost and Dosbox provides faithful emulation.

 

Preservation is only a concern about a potential rerelease by Nightdive, in which case the original binaries might become unavailable for purchase. The System Shock situation set a precedent for that unfortunately.

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Did they actually take the original System Shock off Steam? I got it with mine when I bought Enhanced Edition. SteamDB seems to indicate it's still included.

 

Even if that was the case, you can always grab the original by... other means. If you're so inclined.

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1 hour ago, CARRiON said:

Did they actually take the original System Shock off Steam? I got it with mine when I bought Enhanced Edition. SteamDB seems to indicate it's still included.

 

I doubt they did, unless I'm either missing something quite obvious or some things on the store page have not been updated.

 

"Buy System Shock Enhanced

Also includes System Shock Classic!"

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Just took a look into the game's steam folder and I don't see the original data/binary anywhere. They should put it in a folder inside the Bonus folder somewhere.

 

But whatever, back to the interesting stuff, what's up with the teasing?!

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1 hour ago, VGA said:

Just took a look into the game's steam folder and I don't see the original data/binary anywhere. They should put it in a folder inside the Bonus folder somewhere.

 

That's because it doesn't download with the Enhanced Edition. It should be a separate entry in your library called "System Shock: Classic".

 

Or that's how it was before the re-release, but if what the Store page is saying is true (as it should be) I can't imagine this was changed.

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1 hour ago, crazyflyingdonut said:

I want the source code for Blood so bad that I'm gonna go insane if it's not released in the next 5 years.

 

If I were you, I'd plan ahead and figure out a way to avoid insanity. Just in case.

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7 hours ago, crazyflyingdonut said:

I want the source code for Blood so bad that I'm gonna go insane if it's not released in the next 5 years.

 

Raise the money so you can get it then because merely talking about wanting it doesn't accomplish very much.

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I have never played an adequate version of Blood, so I never got passed the 2nd level without feeling that i'm missing out on the vintage feel of it.

Hopefully Nightdive does do a good Blood release. Cause if their Turok 1/2 releases are to base off, they are VERY DAMN GOOD at porting old games to the new generation.

Heck, we may see a new community rise for Blood modders if Nightdive is oh-so-generous enough to include a modding tool too. Turok 1 had one.

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NightDive Studio's facebook removed the image of Blood that was up there, so it looks like nothing's gonna happen.

 

How incredibly disappointing.  

 

Why did they troll us like this?  If they weren't going to do anything after initially putting that image up, why waste everyone's time?  It's perplexing. 

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2 hours ago, Master O said:

NightDive Studio's facebook removed the image of Blood that was up there, so it looks like nothing's gonna happen.

 

How incredibly disappointing.  

 

Why did they troll us like this?  If they weren't going to do anything after initially putting that image up, why waste everyone's time?  It's perplexing. 

Well, Night Dive never explicitly said to expect anything. It was just a banner image they used for Facebook for a little bit. All of the Blood talk people were making about it was purely speculation as it could've been anything. Could've just been something for Halloween that they forgot to take down. Point is, they never actually teased or said anything.

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