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ricky_steel

anyone more than me who has discovered this....

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.. in Doom 95 when playing The Ultimate Doom episode four (Thy flesh..), when you finish a level on that episode the map from episode 1 shows up in the interlude! WTF! very annoying. It is also the name of the map that shows up there too, for example the first level on episode 4 is called "hanger" and the second that's supposed to say "Perfect hatred" is "nuclear plant" VERY disturbing! I had the dos version before and in that one there was no map on episode four, just a grey picture similar to the inderlude in Doom II. But on this Doom 95 version, the map from episode 1 shows up! really strange!

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Interesting! I didn't know about this DOOM 95 quirk. Microsoft took the DOOM code and ran in their own direction with it, so nobody really knows what all they might have broken or reverted :P

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I actually think Doom95 is quite good and I'd probably run it on this computer if it wasn't for the NT/mouse incompatibility bug. The port is especially nice for school deathmatches as it's a small download, runs even on crappy computers, is extremely simple to launch, and also is fairly stable. The fact that it has identical gameplay/mouse feeling/meh to that in doom2.exe and plays back most demos doesn't make things worse.

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My guess is that Doom95 was probably written before the fourth episode was created, and then when it was, MS didn't feel like devoting any time to making the intermission work right, so they just did a quick fix to make E4's intermission use E1's process.

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Sephiroth said:

yes i have run into the bug many a time.


yeah like, whenever you play Episode 4 with Doom95.

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Ultraviolet said:

My guess is that Doom95 was probably written before the fourth episode was created, and then when it was, MS didn't feel like devoting any time to making the intermission work right, so they just did a quick fix to make E4's intermission use E1's process.

Uh, there's no extra effort to speak of. You'd only have to change two or three lines. It's more likely that the programmers at Microsoft simply didn't know what graphic was supposed to go there.

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Fredrik said:
I actually think Doom95 is quite good and I'd probably run it on this computer if it wasn't for the NT/mouse incompatibility bug. The port is especially nice for school deathmatches as it's a small download, runs even on crappy computers, is extremely simple to launch, and also is fairly stable. The fact that it has identical gameplay/mouse feeling/meh to that in doom2.exe and plays back most demos doesn't make things worse.


It ran compleatly shithouse on my old P120 with 16 Ram even at the lowest resolution. Zdoom ran better for god's sake.

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FYI Its Not A Bug
Check the Doom Wad Yourself
Theres No Intermission Pick For Episode 4
episode 4 wasent really sposs to be apart of doom
it was just a quick thing so they didnt even bother making a pic
so by default it uses the episode 1 pic

kinda sad i guess
but maby if someone wants to make one
and we talk to the devlopers of some of the major ports
( IE: Zdoom ) We Can get them To Add It in
Or Find Someway of getting it to work
on its own as a patch

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ohh
so it would like the doom2 intermission
and not a map ?

hmmm how do you suposs we fix ??

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We can't fix it and we don't need to. The source which was released publically doesn't have this mistake, since it came from the original Ultimate DOOM source fork (cph's research indicates there were at least 3 internal forks of the DOOM source inside id: The original DOOM source upon which DOOM II's exe is based, Ultimate DOOM, which was forked off of DOOM II at some point during DOOM II development, and Final DOOM, which contains only a few known lines of code difference). Apparently DOOM95 is based on the pure DOOM II fork and not the Ultimate DOOM fork, otherwise I'd think the fourth episode would work properly in it.

Most people thought for a long time that doom2.exe and Ultimate DOOM's doom.exe are the same, and that Final DOOM's doom2.exe is the same as DOOM II's but we now know that's not the case :-> Its a real mess for demo compatibility, lemme tell ya.

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Yes You Are Right
just Using Zdoom And Warping And Beating e4m1 Shows That it does have a similer one to doom2

i never noticed :)

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doom95 has the same code (in respect to demos) as doom in The Ultimate DOOM, it seems. Then Final DOOM's code is similar but has the teleporter bug (if not some other sublety as well.) DOOM II's code doesn't have the Lost Soul fix these have. Actually, The Ultimate DOOM's doom can run doom2.wad, but slightly differently than doom2, which is the exact same EXE found in the last DOS shareware, though renamed to doom.)

doom95 is pretty stupid in my opinion. On one (Win98) machine it completely ignores the mouse. On another machine the spectres (and partially invisible players) look bright yellow-violet instead of shadowy! Also you can't record unless you figure you can use the command line to do so, or unless you find an obscure patch found somewhere in idgames (and not exactly in idstuff as one would expect.) Additionally it doesn't support DeHackEd at all. Finally, since it was adapted for use in small windows (which don't work sometimes... on one machine it uses fullscreen no matter what I try) it stretches and enlarges the weapons, deforming the graphics.

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Doom 95 is an example of not much time or energy spent in makeing a decent win port. Why? I hear you cry. Simply, because it's Doom, and at the time any port over to windows, no matter how shit, was considered fantacular.

I mean, who'll forget teh first time they ran Doom with no DOS prompt? Or any game for that matter. Compare Doom 95, to say, Duke Nukem's windowsability and it seems almost brilliant.

Zdoom is an example of lots of effort put into a sourceport, not having to meet deadlines for the sake of a quick killing. It has continuously developed into the awesome free software it is today. Yay for opensource and yay for Randy, amen.

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Quasar said:

Most people thought for a long time that doom2.exe and Ultimate DOOM's doom.exe are the same, and that Final DOOM's doom2.exe is the same as DOOM II's but we now know that's not the case.


Well, running doom.exe with doom2.wad gives DooM II: Hell on Earth v1.9 and running doom2.exe with doom.wad gives Ultimate DooM v1.666, so they are different. The only difference between them is that SB quality tunes play a bit differently in 1.9 than they do in 1.666.

Final DooM's exe is just DooM 2 v1.9 with different iwad name and game text (automap, intermission etc.)

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Ultimate DooMer said:

The only difference between them is that SB quality tunes play a bit differently in 1.9 than they do in 1.666.


I'm going to assume that you're not dense and just didn't read my earlier post about some of the KNOWN differences between doom2.exe 1.9, doom.exe (ultimate) 1.9, and final doom's doom2.exe.

Because there ARE KNOWN differences in monster behavior, teleports, etc, and there MAY be differences which we don't even know about that could affect demo sync.

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Quasar said:

Because there ARE KNOWN differences in monster behavior, teleports, etc, and there MAY be differences which we don't even know about that could affect demo sync.


The nodes are -obviously- rebuilt in the later version, which will definately have effects in gameplay (something about the way the engine decides which way which monster will walk/shoot now) and thus in playing back a demo recorded with a different version.

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That is true. For maximum demo compatibility with versions earlier than 1.9 you would need the IWAD for that version. Its pretty much impossible to obtain, for instance, a 1.666 IWAD now so that pretty much permanently damns pre-v1.9 demo support. It *is* safe to say however that MOST demos are v1.9, and v1.9 demo support is very solid in several ports, chief amongst them is prboom.

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