The DWmegawad Club plays: Memento Mori 2

[Pirx]

On 11/27/2018 at 1:16 PM, dobu gabu maru said:

Just a heads up that if nothing gets at least 3 nominations for next month, the club will be going on temporary hiatus until more people are interested in participating. Currently Deathless is at 2 votes, everything else is at 1.

 

 

looked at that wad, liked it. whatever, if i get to finish it in time. lol

 

+++deathless

 

[Pirx]

MAP25 - “Forgotten Town” by Denis Möller

 

good one! gameplay feels more elaborate and modern compared to many other maps in this wad, meaning that you don't have that many "monsters in front of you" type situations, you have to explore the map in oder to find weapons, or pick up the stimpacks scattered around. i'm not sure what to say about the many pinkie / spectre scenarios here, as they're better used to block the player rather than as a threat on their own, here their purpose seems to eat the ammo of the player who doesn't get the berserk pack in the beginning... most situations require a bit of calm play since those chaingunner / sergeant gangbangs are threatening, especially as i found only one green armor to boost my health over 100. i tried opening the bfg secret, it didn't work, but when i returned to it a bit later it was open... definitely required if you want to fight the cyb it its side of the pentagram, what a nice transforming room. the insta-pop vile was irritating though, i'm happy this insta-pop nonsense has fallen out of favor with most mappers as it's irritating. yeah, the map could have been less brown, perhaps in a more "techno-gothic" style... but overall, it's one of mm2's highlights.

[vdgg]

MAP28

I liked the brutalist reference by @Summer Deep, this is a "massive architecture" map, with level of detail a bit lower than most of MM2, more on par with the first Memento Mori. @riderr3, you're wrong, there are new textures used, AWALIEN, AWMETAL and more, though in just a few areas.

 

The first part is a city, like Jens Nielsen's MM MAP28, the same lamps and medikits/stimpacks, a different style, more gray then bricks, and it serves only as an introduction. You collect your weapons and the yellow key here.

 

Then there's towers, a central lift, neat idea. I liked blue square markers which turned to black when every one of four first floor branches were complete. (Not really black, just low lighting). I wish there were some floor markers on the borders of the lift, though. So many times I want to enter one of the branches and I just miss it, and have to wait the whole cycle of lift lowering and raising. The fights are good, small, brutal setpieces. This is a solid map by a solid mapper (check out his insrtion.wad levels), which for some reason didn't impress me as much as MAP27, but I'm glad it's there in the WAD.

 

Rating 4/5

 

Recommended demo

UV Max by SAV88 (link) . Plenty of clever small time-savers, which combined save a lot of time and make this level look short, multitasking, infighting, this demo was quite a sensation in these forums. Watch it now if you haven't before :)

[Summer Deep]

MAP29:  A compact level divided into three combat areas, and with a smallish number of enemies, but not easy for all that.
If you turn right at the start and take the teleporter to the area with the chaingunner towers, it's going to be
exceedingly difficult if not impossible to progress beyond a certain point, certainly in UV.

 

Before you go there, it definitely makes sense to find your way to the area with the caged rooms in the corners, and clear it out before
the first Cyberdemon arrives. He's reasonably straightforward to deal with, but the second one would be a nightmare to
take on in that cramped yellow key area, but for the fact that he teleports out of there (or at least he did when I
played it) and gives the player the chance to avoid him or confront him in a more user-friendly environment. Archviles
feature prominently too, but as often in this wad their destructive potential is limited, usually because they're behind
bars. The one at the end could have caused a lot more trouble if he'd actively aided the Barons, but he stayed out of
sight on the platform by the exit door, and was a sitting duck at the end (the AV on the platform outside the yellow door
did surprise me though by jumping down into the nukage - you don't see that kind of thing very often).

 

 Disappointed to discover no secrets, though the room with the megasphere was very 'hidden', and I assume the switch
that is pictured below was something to do with a secret - I pressed it but have no idea what it did.

 

95% kills, 0/4 secrets

 

 

 

 

Edited November 30, 2018 by Summer Deep

[galileo31dos01]

MAP28: Corporate Hell

 

My frigging god, how annoying. Ok, getting to the ups first: another interesting theme, open areas and buildings creating a sort of control base maybe, some people mentioned "city-esque" but that was more the case of MM map 29 imo. Each tower functions with their own gimmicks, which I enjoyed as set pieces: a simple crate maze vaguely a la E2M2; a bridge lowering into nukage like "Tricks n' Traps", plus a claustrophobic trap equal to that same map; another dark room with a slow lift, a bit similar to the one in "Downtown", most likely the weakest part imo; and the circle of imps/revs that I recalled more irritating, but not this time. Also, one of the branches leads to the BK caco trap which I also liked.

 

Now the downs: hitscan "abuse" courtesy of sergeants and commandos attacking from points out the player's FOV. Different from the "hitscan hell" I grew up liking. Then the lift, I constantly checked the automap to position myself in the direction I wanted to go, which helped, but sometimes waiting for that lift to lower and then raise and remembering where I've been before zzz not a fan, I mean. And the last section, minus the brutal welcoming that I could have solved better, the trick with the doors was damn irritating. You have to shoot, retreat and repeat until the mancubi are dead, so you can go and snipe the vile between the bars. Same for the other side, without a vile, but there's no other solution if the fatsos camp the corridor. 

 

Overall, mixed feelings, towards negative, just like last year. This video has some boring backtrack for health and missing the lift a couple times, plus a near death moment. Oh well. 

 

 

[FrancisT218]

@CapellanI remember Level 15 really impressed me when I played it, which was within the last year. You were really at a high standard IMO for 1996. In my top five for sure, having played around with about half the maps here. I need to look at your other full length/full detail levels (Requiem-11, Darken 2-03, CC4-06, Nuclear Halls, something for Deadly Standards 2, don't know if I miss any).

 

Overall MM2 can't entirely escape showing that it is from 1996, but it gets my vote as the best PLAYING of the MM/MM2/Requiem/STRAIN quadruplet. Some of the others lost my interest after about ten maps.

[Capellan]

21 minutes ago, FrancisT18 said:

your other full length/full detail levels (Requiem-11, Darken 2-03, CC4-06, Nuclear Halls, something for Deadly Standards 2, don't know if I miss any).

 

There's also STRAIN map04, and e1m2 of Deadly Standards 1.  I also happen to think Doom 404 is worth playing, even if the maps are small :)

 

[Crusader No Regret]

MM2 was one of the inuagural PWADs to become part of the Compet-N back in the day so it has quite a bit of name recognition to it.  I didn't get around to it back in that time, only picking it up sometime in the 2000s.  The first thing I can remember about it is the music.  The music wad got a lot of use when playing other mapsets without custom music or tracks that I disliked.

 

I have played all the way through on continuous once many years ago though most of my experience with the set comes from pistol starts on HMP and my commentary will mostly be in that context.  It's a mapset I certainly have words about.

 

Map 3:

     Can't explain why but I really like the music track for this map.  Often found myself typing in IDMUS03 when loading this up with another mapset.  The map itself doesn't make such a positive impression.  What I remember is no armor, limited health, and the chaingun being withheld for a long time.  There is a SSG but most work will be done with the basic shotgun and not much use for the bullet clips found along the way.  If the RNG is kind, a caged chaingunner will drop its weapon within reach though.

 

Map 4: Mostly non-linear adventure past the first passage.  Easy to pick up and play casually, just got to stay alert for chaingunners.  The Duck Nukem reference brings a smile to my face.

 

Map 5: Took a liking to the music here too so my perception of this map is inflated.  The locations have variety and the gameplay is serviceable enough.  It was already instinctive to check the area behind where I start so have the chaingun from the start.

 

+++ H2H-Xmas  Oh, what the hell.  It's suitable for the time of year.

[vdgg]

MAP29

 

Jens Nielsen, one of the prominent "stars" (mappers) of the first Memento Mori brought us this only one map in MM2, but what a map it is!

 

After MAP23 and MAP28, we have another disjointed map, kind of two levels connected by teleporters only. Even though the start has a "cave" theme and the second part is "wood", the map is quite coherent. Not sure about "Kings of Metal" title, probably a music reference like Ratamahatta, since there are not many metal textures :). George Bell said "The 9 Arch Vile's are the kings of this challenging map."

 

It starts Plutonia-style in a sense that few monsters produce a big threat. The acid pool is a bigger copy of the one in MM MAP28, but I think the size of the big square down below is perfect. It exceeds the arch-vile attack range, I think, anyway if you go left from the start and let a mancubus hit the first arch-vile, it will retaliate once and then start running in circles, unless you let the mancubus hit it again.

 

A bit odd is a baron which needs to be either skipped or killed using only shotgun (for 100% kills) since you cannot return to that area once you drop down. The effect of the sudden prison cell opening is cool!

 

Jens Nielsen wouldn't be himself if he didn't make his map pretty obscure. Only one secret (green armor) is pretty easy to get. The plasma, the BFG and megasphere, and especially the ammo stash behind the imps are extremely well hidden. The switch Summer Deep showed us is necessary to get that ammo, but you also need to find something else... There's also linedef no.888 (a satyr switch) which is not needed to be pressed (redundant), but maybe gives a subtle clue. Maybe.

 

Two cyberdemons are placed in a very unique way. Take the one at the blue key. You may discover the plasma secret and get kind of trapped in a tiny room with that cyber. You may open the door and escape, but I don't give you much of a chance. If you approach him from the other side, this cyber can be killed in at least two ways. If you raise the bridge over the nukage seven times, his rockets will be stopped while your plasma/pistol/chaingun/shotgun /SSG will reach the cyber. So there is a safe way. There are also two barons in the close vicinity, conveniently placed to resist infighting for a few seconds while you quickly fire two BFG shots from close range. The fast and risky way.

 

Another cyberdemon, at the yellow key, is a WHAT?!?! moment. You think you're about to die, run away, find an arrow indicating a spot to hide, and then the cyber disappears... that is, teleports itself into the acid pool area. Again, a few barons can be helpful here.

 

It's among my all-time favourites, I never get bored here. Rating 5/5

 

MAP30

 

An ominous title. Definitely looks like a MM2 map, the new textures are everywhere. Easy map (invulnerability, thanks!) but there are plenty of things done wrong. A pain elemental which is present before the swarm of lost souls, which means: harmless in vanilla (there was another harmless one in MAP26 by the blue armor). One of the easiest maps, my main concern is not to get telefragged in the final area.

 

The yellow key is not needed due to lack of playtesting. 

 

Rating: I don't give ratings to Icon of Sin maps.

 

Music

Ah, the music, I didn't mention that. It is awesome, I think I like Icarus music better, but MM2 is close. And placed nicely in mm2mus.wad for my convenience. My favourite tunes are from MAP05 and MAP09, I slightly prefer Klem over Tolwyn here (in Requiem it is opposite), but I cannot forget about MAP26 tune, in which Tolwyn quotes Klem from Memento Mori One, in a tribute of sorts.

 

The music has been used in numerous WADs since then, Atomic Tomb, Biowar, Sector 666, The Darkening, Slayer, 1024, Community Chest I, Jade Earth, Can't Run From Evil and probably many more recent ones which I haven't played.

 

Super Secret Levels

Nobody mentioned them, which is actually good. S1 by Steve Towle has plenty of things done bad, only trying to impress with the cage lift. Rating 1/5. S2 by Thomas Moeller looks like a Thomas' map, but is soooo dull. Rating 2/5.

 

Overall

I shall skip it, I think, just go to DSDA and count how many demos I recorded for MM2, I think I don't even want to know :)

[gaspe]

MAP28: The scale gets huge here with big and very vertical building that create a strong impression, in particular the main central hub tower. The first part is something you roam more freely and you can collect the various weapons. I liked the building with the circular stairway, from where you can open the teleport room that takes you to the second part of the map in the main tower. There are other maps that later used a similar concept of raising a lift to get to the next floor but on those you have to progress in a linear order while here you can tackle the map in different ways and some parts are optional. The gameplay is mostly made of setpieces that happen in separate rooms. I agree with @galileo31dos01 that many of the sub-towers have an iwad-esque vibe: the NW tower has a slow lift with imps sniping from above like in "Downtown", the NE tower has the E2M2 crate storage theme, and the SE tower is a remake of the RSK area of "Tricks and Traps". Lots of chaingunners are used, but the most annoying are those in the SSG building near the start, it's a fairly generous map with the supplies. The setup with the AV in the last building is rather brutal, at least you time to inspect it and prepare yourself. The door and lift combo can be cute but this is used in an annoying way with many mancubi that you to do some back and forth to shoot at them.

[riderr3]

MAP29
The biggest disappointment for me in MM2. Silly layout and silly monster placement. Too much cages. All what it consists of and what it looks like is a turn-off for me.
The arch-viles are resurrecting imps who stucked at the top of lift and blocking the way (zero-heighting).
Only one positive thing is the good amount of body armor available on this map.
Enough to say, let's get to final map.

MAP30
Well, you'll have to visit a few areas before meet IoS. A plenty of backpacks and ammo is available through the map.
The IoS battle was not too hard (at least on HMP), especially when invul sphere are available. Fun map and not too frustrating like Doom 2 IoS.

Overall
I give it a 4/5, this it pretty solid megawad. If we lived in 90's I've probably rated it higher.

Edited November 30, 2018 by riderr3

[SiFi270]

MAP29

Throughout my playthrough of MM1 there were a lot (maybe it just feels like a lot) of moments where I realized I'd permanently missed out on something just because I'd done something in the wrong order, so I'd delete all my saves except the one made at the very start of the map and come back to it in a few hours. I'm glad this map is the only time I had one of those moments in this one. It was also nice to learn that this is the origin of the music for one of my favorite wads, Frozen Time.

 

MAP30

I hope @Urthar got through the whole wad like they intended to even though they haven't been posting here, because I'm sure they'd be glad to see that this last map has a whopping 76 backpacks, although about nine of them are only available to co-op players. Just in case however many there were in the rest of the wad still weren't enough.

[nosrepatsuj]

Thanks for the great comments guys and girls. I really enjoyed the entire thread.

Actually this got me reminded of Icarus and I read the entire thread made in 2015 September.

 

To sum up the experience, I must say, that it impossible to parallel. For me, both Memento Mori 2 and Icarus are the highlights of the 90's with regards to Doom mapping. I will always have this irrational love towards both mapsets. All of the levels in them are a time machine to me, and probably some other people too... As such their value is impossible to estimate.

 

The music plays an important aspect, but that's probably only me and some other music freaks.

The architecture: It was very interesting to read what all of you think about this topic. I can 90% agree with the general consensus.

 

Cheers all :)

[Crusader No Regret]

Map 7: That door indeed.  May not have gotten that angry over it but it sure is memorable.  Finding secrets helps make it a mostly breezy trek.

 

Map 8: Mostly I remember a lack of armor and finding the secret passage to the secret armor that most jump to.  There may have been IDDT involved; it's been so long.

 

Map 9: If modern Doom is more like fast food (fast paced, action nearly every moment), this is the five course dinner party that takes two hours and the guests spend more time chit-chatting than eating.  OK, that may be an exaggeration.  Still, I felt satisfaction from playing this map.  It's a sewer map.  The cover on the ground beside the start point is one of those little details that helps set the mood.  Chapel is an interesting locale and it was satisfying sniffing out the secrets.  Most interesting secret is one that takes the player to an area you can see from the start.  Having already played HR, had a suspicion about the teleporter that dropped off nearby so assumed hopping in repeatedly until it takes me somewhere else was the trick.  Don't really recall much of what happens in between so also plenty of filler which is not going to be to everyone's tastes.

 

Map 10: "Ugh, no." in a pistol start context.  Not as sloggish on continuous but no SSG and no chaingun for a long time from scratch.  Too much shotgun grinding and the bullet clips are mostly unused.  I don't like the music here either.

 

Map 11: This has my favorite music track from the set.  Actually heard it in Biowar first but, details.  IDMUS11 got a lot of use when I have this on my hard drive. Straighforward for the most part; quickly found the secret door that let me reach the switch to raise the bridge.  Going to echo the importance of watching ammo though HMP gives more leeway.  Having the megasphere secret be missable discourages me from playing this map without saves.  As for being able to run past the hell nobles at the end, back in the 1990's, we fought everything just because we could and liked seeing 100% kills at the results screen.  So running away didn't happen as much unless specifically recording a speed demo.

[Magnusblitz]

Probably won't finish before the month ends here but ah well.

 

MAP26: Base Exposure

99% kills, 2/7 secrets

 

After seeing the first few areas and reading the reviews here, I expected to hate this map... in the end, I don't, though. It's certainly got some bad flaws - large mono-textured areas are a biggie, and on a pistol start the difficulty starts frustrating high then nosedives substantially for the rest of the map after getting the blue key (and all the assorted goodies). I saw the SSG deep in the ground near the start but was unable to get it (reading other reviews, I suppose it only opens up when the one in a nearby secret is acquired), and I'm not sure what I would've done without the secret ammo stash by the BFG. But once you get armed up it's pretty easy - maybe too easy - but I did enjoy being able to use the big open areas to get the monsters to infight, especially some combos you don't see often (imps/arachnatrons, demons/cacos). There are some cool areas here and there too, like the corridor leading to the BFG, or the demon/crusher trap. Almost makes up for the huge bland areas. So yeah, I can see why this map isn't liked, but it didn't bug me too much all things considered.

 

MAP27: The Silos

96% kills, 6/8 secrets

 

This is a really interesting one. At first blush, another map with too-large areas... to be honest, when I think of Doom, I think of tight enclosed corridors with plenty of hellspawn to blow up. Obviously the IWAD was designed as such because of hardware limitations at the time, but even with those constraints pushed the core game I think still plays a lot better up-close - the weapons are designed for it, the monsters are designed for it, the texturing, etc. But this one actually does a pretty good job and looks fairly nice, and really creates a good atmosphere and some memorable architecture. This level is a pain in the ass to navigate though, right from the start (mandatory secret for pistol starters to have weapons) and continuing throughout thanks to a messy network of corridors inside the base itself as well as a lot of "so what the heck did that switch do?" design. I don't know which switch activated the crushers on the cyberdemon, or which one opened up the skull switch that opens up the blue key, for example. And to be honest, I jumped to the blue key from one of the arachnatron turrets up high and went in backwards, since that tiny little 64-wide lift and corridor is complete bullshit if you've already woken up the baron and AV there. And I probably wouldn't've figured out that same lift has the entrance halfway down to the exit if not for the compmap secret. But there is a fun sense of exploration and the sense of place is top-notch.

[Summer Deep]

MAP30:  This was a bit flawed, essentially three disconnected scenarios artificially stitched together and presented as a single level. But anyway, it was nice to have some tasks to perform before being pitched into the IoS fight. The teleport ambush near the start was good stuff, the galleries of cannon fodder in the passageway a bit naff, and the Cyberdemon was easy to dispatch. I liked the fact that the IoS fight was straightforward and that the mapper didn't succumb to any temptation to show how clever and original he was by baffling and alienating the player right at the end (Hello Icarus, D2TWID, Alien Vendetta and others...). Interesting use of keys - what was going on with the invuln sphere, did it double up as the blue key as well, or something?

 

86% kills, 0/0 secrets

I do like this megawad, which was why I proposed it in the first place. Maps 04, 08, 15, 19, 24, 28 and 29, were especially enjoyable, the only semi-duds being 11, 26 and 31. The rest were at least very decent, and I felt even 06 and 20 were a fair bit better than some reviewers here suggested.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2018 by Summer Deep : Spelling

[galileo31dos01]

Oh shit, November's gone...

 

MAP29: Kings of Metal

 

This was fine. I will echo Capellan in that pistol starting and maxing this map at the same time are maybe not the greatest combo. On one side, you're required to kill a baron with the shotgun, and, while optional, an archvile too. Now this baron case isn't necessarily a boring grind since the space is very limited and he's very able to corner an unwary player. Someone else pointed out the Plutonia-ish style, and I can think of "Genesis" (map 14). The design is naturally boxy, basically no diagonals or curves that I could see, and lots of navigation through corridors, windows, lifts and on bridges. The custom MM brick texture adds to the style. Also, relatively low monster count, and a big part are caged snipers. Even for a penultimate map, I didn't have much to worry about, only the sneaky archvile and goats after you take one of the two teleporters. Besides, the cheese for the first cyberdemon must be a misstep in design, because you don't need to overthink it. What I did worry was to break the hidden path to the BFG+megasphere, it's a convoluted method a la Eternal Doom to keep it open and one I screwed up the very first time I played the map. Got it right this time, thankfully. Overall, okay map, very MM1-ish btw, nice midi as usual.

 

I may have forgotten about the last secret... 

 

 

[FrancisT218]

@CapellanYeah sorry I missed those few. And there was no intent at all to 'poke' at Doom 404. I should have probably just said 'non-limitation'.

[Crusader No Regret]

With the month more or less over, I'll skip past most of the maps I was considering yarning about.

 

Map 26: The differences between HMP and UV may very well be the widest in the mapset.  HMP is so desolate.  The textfile gives some context about what's happening here; some of the design decisions make no sense without it.  With foreknowledge, I've had the idea of picking up the keys that appear at the start and skipping the dive into the section past the crusher hallway but nope.  Trying to skip that area will find forward progress blocked by a wall since there's an important walkover trigger down there.  I like this one in spite of its shortcomings.  It's something to fire up when I'm in the mood for cruising.  Also enjoy the music, a remix of the first map tune of Memento Mori.  It resonates with me.

 

Map 29: Starting from scratch, this map is better approached like a puzzle map.  It's split into two main areas and taking the easily accessible teleporters too early will drop the player in without enough resources to handle the trip.  So find a different way that is more survivable.  Or a backdoor that lets you approach things from a different angle.   Low monster count but also tight on ammo for a while so it's important to prioritize which monsters to shoot at.  There's a BFG and megasphere to reveal though entering one of the secrets will permanently seal them off which will surprise a blind player.  Memorable cyberdemon setups to be found. both with approaches provided to make them easier to handle.  Really had a sense of accomplishment after working out a sequence that allowed me to conquer the map.

[galileo31dos01]

MAP30: It

 

Yea, only real highlight is the music, because as an ending map, it's a tad bland. Most of the points were mentioned above, and for some reason, it doesn't surprise that a map 30 wasn't fully tested, because I've seen other cases before. I'm also pretty sure the first time I played the map only using one key to open the IoS gap and kill it without hesitation. This time I resorted to the mouse!

 

 

With this said Memento Mori II is sort of concluded, I still have the extra secret maps to record which aren't any impressive and nobody's missing anything from them. Anyway, this has been a nice trip to nostalgia, even though I fell apart in the middle of the month. Hope to join another time when I can craft better reviews since my mind is busy with lots of other stuff. This still holds a 7 out of 10, meaning it's a fun one with some ups and some downs. Would definitely revisit it another year.  

[Magnusblitz]

MAP28: Corporate Hell

100% kills, 4/4 secrets

 

Like last map, another map I was worried I wouldn't like due to the huge architecture, but I think it uses it well and gives a good sense of place. I also enjoyed the central conceit of progression by way of unlocking the central elevator to climb higher and higher, once I figured that out. Secrets are perhaps a bit too easy (they felt like they could be part of the main progression) but everything works out pretty well. Only real annoying thing is some of the combat setups with hitscanners everywhere and some blind teleports. The auto-open double doors at the end were also pretty annoying and definitely cost me a lot of ammo. I do wonder if this map might've been a bit stronger without the opening area (everything pre-yellow key) as it does go a bit long. Nice little MAP08 homage too.

[ella guro]

yet again i didn't complete another one of these. i made it to around map 20, but i just had too much other life stuff going on in the last week or so. i will definitely play through this to the end later, as there are a few dark horse maps that i didn't really know about before but liked a lot because of only skimming around MM2 and never fully playing through it.

 

it's a shame, because i wanted to talk about MAP 27 aka The Silos, which is one of my favorite Doom maps of all-time. it's a bummer to see people be more lukewarm about it here but perhaps that's because it kinda stands on its own and is probably exhausting within the context of a whole megawad. i was really sad to find out Paul Noble didn't do anything else in the realm of singleplayer maps outside of his two MM2 offerings.

[Magnusblitz]

4 hours ago, ella guro said:

it's a shame, because i wanted to talk about MAP 27 aka The Silos, which is one of my favorite Doom maps of all-time. it's a bummer to see people be more lukewarm about it here but perhaps that's because it kinda stands on its own and is probably exhausting within the context of a whole megawad.

 

I do think this is one of the downsides of the "megawad in a month" format, since keeping up with one map a day can be hard and when people fall behind they often feel the pressure to keep up without missing days (in the future I think I might try to just pick up where the current day is instead, depending on the megawad). I do think MAP27 is rather striking and memorable, despite some downsides. But yeah at the end of the month I'm usually hoping for easy maps to blast through since I'm usually lagging behind.

 

MAP29: Kings of Metal

97% kills, 3/4 secrets

 

Awful lot of wood in this level for that title... this is a toughie from a pistol start, with the weapons difficult to reach and a lot of dangerous high-tier enemies in your way. I like @Crusader No Regret's idea of thinking of this as a puzzle map. Thankfully it's really just the two main areas, so you can spend your mental energy on figuring out how to crack open the arsenal instead of preparing for a grind of enemies. The real rough spot for me was the first cyberdemon, I wasn't really sure how to deal with it on the bridge and with no RL/PG yet, so I ended up just slowly whittling him down with the SSG from the upstairs window. After he was gone it was a lot easier to traverse the level. BFG was necessary for that double AV at the top of the lift. The teleporting cyber later on was cute. All in all, while I certainly wouldn't say it's a super-difficult map by today's standards, I do think the design lends itself to be enjoyed by those who really enjoy getting into the nitty-gritty of Doom combat rather than the more casual player who just wants to be able to straightforwardly blow up hellspawn.

 

MAP30: Backpack Farm

 

Sugerplum Fairy music, appropriate for the season. :) An inoffensive IoS with a decent amount of preamble, but nothing you can't easily blast through with all the weapons provided at the start. Thankfully the IoS is pretty straightforward (only thing that threw me off was not noticing the yellow/red keys right away high up on the pedestals, especially since I only saw blue/red switches thanks to ZDoom's automap color coding). I did find it humorous when the monsters telefragged each other thanks to the MAP30 tags.

 

Overall, I was pleasantly surprised by MM2... I usually expect older WADs to have not aged well, or at least requiring examination as artifacts of their time, but a lot of these maps have held up pretty well methinks. I think 90% of my dislike was maps not giving enough armor or heavy weapons early enough. Even the few not-so-hot maps had something to recommend them.

 

 

[gaspe]

MAP29: Perhaps the hardest level of the wad, also I had very few memories of this level compared to the other maps. Unlike the other (at least most) maps of the episode it isn't very long and it doesn't use many monsters (100 or so on UV) and it feels a like Plutonia for its fights with few monsters but that are very hard to tackle. One of Jens Nielsen traits is that he likes to make some rather obscure stuff and the progression isn't alwasy easy to understand, though here this stuff is mostly confined to the secrets. The map is split into two parts, in the first you can pick the first weapons and there's a very useful secret with the BFG and a megasphere. Then you sort of have 2 choices. If you take the teleporters on the southern corners in the main room you'll get to the courtyard with the turrets, going there first isn't the ideal way, you can't go ack from there and you won't find new weapons from that way until you face the first cyberdemon at the BK. The other way is to teleport from the eastern room (near the SSG), at least you can obtain the RL and clean more easily the area of the first cyberdemon. You can also get the secret plasmarifle from there, though you will be trapped in that tiny room with the cybderdemon. The BK is well guarded, killing that cyberdemon is awkward given its position and the weapons you have. Also near there it's particularly nasty the av you face on top of a lift. If you don't pick up the BFG the closet with the second cyberdemon at YK the won't be open, though it will teleport to the main cave where you can kill it with the help of some barons. It's a nice scary moment when you face it in that closed corridor. Not so much metal and mostly wood but it doesn't matter. Cool map.

 

MA30: Nice funny music that gets more serious in the end. The introduction is more silly than atmospheric, the corridor with the doors at the sides where the monsters start to teleport, the swarm of lost souls, the techbase room. The IoS fight is easy and straightforward, there's an invuln. and from the tower you are protected from the all monsters that will spawn.

[Catpho]

Heh, megawads finished alongside the DWMC since Super MAYhem17: 0.

Memento Mori 2 is undoubtedly one of the greatest mapsets ever made, perfectly encapsulating everything that made early Doom mapping so awesome. Really, can you expect anything less than greatness when you have a variety of talented and imaginative authors, a charming resource pack and an outstanding soundtrack from the ultimate musical dual Shaw & Kelm? Nowadays, some taste in level design found here are maybe a bit outdated, showing the shortcomings that come with age, but whenever MM2 hits it stride, it hits it with excellency. A timeless package, natural when you pack so much quality.

5 favs:

MAP15 - “The Devil’s Coterie” by Adam Windsor: Hands down the most enchanting level I've ever played from Capellan. It was a bizarre and wild adventure that kept me hooked with every encounter, and boy is the detailing crazy! Probably my fav of the entire wad too, a worthy addition to any "Doom maps you must play before you die" list.

MAP22 - “R.R.F. Refinary” by Thomas Möller: Möller at the top of his game, working his usual chaos and architectural magic :)))

MAP27 - “The Silos” by Paul Noble: Paul is shown to be pretty frickin capable at creating memorable maps, too bad he left so soon. There are choices in design that I don't agree with, mostly gameplay related, but his mastery at awe-inspiring visuals and creative ideas is just too appealing for me.

MAP21 - “Sanctuary” by Andy Badorek: Lovely and fun

 

MAP25 - “Forgotten Town” by Denis Möller: Gloriously action packed, with some neat looks along the way

 

Brief descriptions of maps that were cool too:

-Map04: tricks and trap king :)

-Map05 and Map07: Plenty of neat designs

-Map09: despite being relatively unsophisticated, it still manages to be a worthwhile journey

-Map12: Copying Romero tastefully!

-Map19: an epic, even if it was a tad exhausting to play

-Map28: I adore the map's progression gimmick and aesthetic, though it didn't quite stick the landing on gameplay terms

-Map29: For some reason there is only one Jens Nielsen map :(

 

Looking back, I should have managed time more efficiently so I could join in the club. Would have had a blast I reckon!

[Pirx]

 

so i got around to finish these, before switching to this month's pick 

 

 

MAP26 - “Base Exposure” by Mark Klem

 

very different from the previous map, which has aged well i think. this one has "90s map" all over it. large empty spaces with enemies lost in them, steel walls (i can't stand that sterile texture used for large parts of walls), rectagular corridors with useless pinkies in them. and then there's a wierd pacing, first a relative scarcity of ammo and a disturbing lack of ssg, then ammo is thrown at the player in bulk. so let's have a few bosses, because that's what the ammo is for... but said bosses can be tied up in infights or 2-shot unceremiously. and then you reach the pillars at the end with a megasphere and a bfg, and run into a handful of imps. 

 

 

 

MAP27 - “The Silos” by Paul Noble

 

@ella guro: yes, i liked the grand scale architecture in this map, impressive "demon city", an adventure that took me some time. however, i was slow at playing it not only because of the sheer size of the map, but also because of how i had to find some small, almost hidden passages in order to make progress. like the one where it's best to pick up the invuln in the "monitor room" before plowing through several barons and a vile in a small tunnel. or how i ssg'ed the cyb in a cramped room deathmatching it artistically from the entrance, only to find out that it had a crusher. so it's much quicker when you know it already. but nevertheless a good adventure.

 

 

 

MAP28 - “Corporate Hell” by Stephen Watson

 

infighting fun in the beginning, those arachnotrons from long range can splatter anything you direct their fire at. then you enter an evil corporation's (?) tower with a central elevator and levels branching off from there. neat concept, but i found waiting for that elevator and riding it up and down confusing and annoying. arrived with little ammo at the top level, where i lured the mancs out one by one and punching them to death because gzdoom allows that.

 

 

 

MAP29 - “Kings of Metal” by Jens Nielsen

 

lots of wood actually in a massive map that's the most difficult by far in mm2, actually the only one where i got my butt kicked, that silly poison lake plus a lot of chaingunners were too much for me running around aimlessly. there are a lot of secrets with ammo and other goodies that swing the balance quickly in the player's favor, even against several archviles and iirc 3 siege cows, but you have to find those first. i can recommend sav88's demo as an amazingly fast playthrough, especially the move for the megasphere + bfg. fine map as a last great adventure in this wad.

unfortunately just a standard map30 icon fight. 

 

 

 

i'm glad that we have played all 4 "great 90s" team wads at this point (mm, mm2, icarus and requiem), especially with @capellan still active here and sharing his thoughts, and @vdgg with other good points and demos. it has been quite different playing those 4 again from pistol start, instead of continuous as i had done many years ago, and read other people comments on many details. so, a bit belated of course, but still...  ;)

 

[AdamW]

On 11/8/2018 at 3:32 AM, vdgg said:

Well, I didn't find what I was looking for in the last post... Time for the next map, then, anyway.

MAP06

Last year I played AdamW's insrtion.wad map (MAP09) and wrote quite a leghty text critizing it. There was a bit about a door going up to the sky, and more. The text for those interested:

  Reveal hidden contents

| I think this map sucks. Let's describe it almost room by room.     |
|                                                                    |
| This starting area is good. It is an extended hub of sorts,        |
| in disguise as it is connected to another room/corridor by a smal  |
| portion of wall opened by an obscure switch. There is an           |
| inaccessible red key and a red key door, blue key door and yellow  |
| key door are all nearby. Plenty of windows and good opportunities  |
| for hitscanners to shoot you or get killed by you.                 |
|                                                                    |
| Once you figure out what the obscure switch do (it doesn't open    |
| the trap, it opens a passage in the caco/lost soul room), you can  |
| find a room with a mancubus and two barons on pillars (there are   |
| NINE barons in this medium level and their placement is sometimes  |
| very lame; some of them are UV only and replace hell knights       |
| present on lower skills). This room is buggy. In the ironman       |
| contest DotW got trapped there. The switch on top of a square      |
| structure opens another door leading further on, but it is a one   |
| time only switch. The door can be opened from the other side by    |
| monsters. Then it closes permanently. Or does it? There is another |
| one time switch which doesn't look like a switch, you need to      |
| "press" on the back of the structure (0:53 of the demo). Looks     |
| like an oversight or a bad "fix" of the previous error. Let's move |
| on...                                                              |
|                                                                    |
| Another room is pretty cool, two barons are OK (tricky and not     |
| totally lame), there are decorations which makes dodging fireballs |
| more difficult. The way a cetral wall raises and baron pillars     |
| lower is nice. Not sure what the "POISON" signs do, there is a     |
| "carpet of BLOOD" which is not a pain sector.                      |
|                                                                    |
| A teleporter which leads outside is revealed. Here we have a       |
| stupid lowering switch which can be pressed from below before      |
| being revealed (1:39 of the demo). But this is not the worst thing |
| here, the worst is the blue door which at the moment cannot be     |
| opened yet. We'll come back here.                                  |
|                                                                    |
| Then we have the yellow key and we can get into a maze of lowering |
| walls. Lost souls inhabit this area (they are tricky and I prefer  |
| to escape and to shoot them from a safe spot). The blue key is     |
| guarded by... mancubusarch-vile. Two monsters stuck together on UV.|
| What I learned is if you shoot them, the arch-vile dies first      |
| always and the mancubus gets freedom of movement. I think this     |
| wasn't tested at all rather than got through as a "fun" design.    |
|                                                                    |
| The blue door opening up to the sky is sooo amateurish, it looks   |
| even worse from the opposite side. After the door a baron guards   |
| a switch and the player may build up steps leading to his pillar...|
| or just press the switch without all this stuff which I don't do   |
| in the demo as it hardly saves any time, but is another mapper     |
| ommission.                                                         |
|                                                                    |
| Get red key, telefrag a baron if you're lucky and get to the final |
| area.                                                              |
|                                                                    |
| The idea is cool, the exit being slowly revealed by layers of      |
| walls lowering. Alas, we have other bunch of stuck monsters        |
| (a chaingunner and two sergeants) and not really a bug, but        |
| a thing that irks me a bit. You cannot escape this area and get    |
| more ammo. You'd better have max ammo when entering this area      |
| as otherwise you'd have to punch four mancubi in a claustrophobic  |
| room (I ran out of ammo there a few times). Exit! 80% secrets      |
| is maximum.                                                        |
|____________________________________________________________________|

AdamW replied:

 

(I didn't reply to this later, but I found it interesting, thus the quote).

 

So yeah, that's about the Sky Doors. I always bring the first map of TTP.wad as an example what to do: put a lift instead of a door and you don't have to worry about silly tiny roofs.

 

Now this map has got a fair share of critisism.

 

• "bad" pistol start
• awful gameplay (This map´s gameplay is just awful! (I hate to have to kill mancubi and revenants with minor weapons far away)" (Peo Sjoblom))
• SSG (the primary weapon) in a secret
• ugly
• HOM at the lift
• 2 stuck sergeants on UV

While I agree with all of these, I don't find this map really bad. It plays better as UV Speed than Max and I have to give credit for no critical bugs such as inescapable situations (MAP04) or broken progression (MAP03,04,05, though only the last one is awful). You have to run through the whole level as intended. This, and also a nice balcony preview of the penultimate area save this map for me and I give it a bit of a generous rating...

 

Redundant switches strike back. In the dark maze there are three switches lowering some bars leading to the red key. Only one of them is needed to be pressed though, as the gap is enough for the player to squeeze in.

 

Rating 3/5

 

Recommended demo

Nightmare demo by Xit Vono (link)

  Reveal hidden contents

 Overshadowed by his TNT MAP09 demo released in the same month... because IWAD. This run is maybe even harder due to amount of hitscanners and backtracking. I don't know what is the survival rate in the starting area, but once it's cleared it is a typical Xit Vono lengthy run. Little damage taken, slowly progressing, killing monsters at the front and rear. Collecting blue armor. A big chunk of health disappears after a few mandatory teleports. At the end he got hit by baron plasma and played with 5% health for a good while. Extreme luck at the exit, with the chaingunner dealing only 3hp damage.

 

Thanks for the reviews, vdgg and everyone :)

So a couple of late notes. One thing that's important to understand is this: at the time MM2 came out, most people just weren't very good at Doom. *I* certainly wasn't that good at it. So I don't even know how much I or anyone else on the team even really played the map in UV mode. Maybe we made sure it was possible to clear it, but that was probably about it. I don't recall that I did a lot of rigorous figuring out, like, can you 100% it from pistol start without it being really annoying, do all the enemies really *do* something useful - I did a lot more kinda 'editor level design', like, hey, this area looks a bit empty! Let's stuff an enemy in it! And I probably played it more on skill 2 or 3 in testing than 4.

I think there *are* inescapable situations, actually, but only right at the start - as someone noticed, IIRC, I don't think you can get out of the pits if you fall in.

The idea of the monster closets is not, IIRC (it's been a long time!) really to surprise you (except for a couple). My overall idea with the map was to try and make you keep coming back through those two areas you get to early on, but have them be different each time. The whole thing with the church (...it's a church. That's what it is.) opening up progressively was a big part of the whole design. So the point of the monster closets is mainly to restock existing areas with monsters as you pass through them, rather than being about surprise exactly. I don't recall why I didn't just teleport in more monsters, but it may just have been that I kinda personally don't like that way of doing things, it's finicky to implement and can be unreliable...

Finally, yeah, in the MM2 universe, the secrets of Sky Door and Sky Ceiling technology have been discovered. We can only imagine how life in this universe will improve once we finally master these in our universe. :P

 

[AdamW]

sorry, dunno how to fix the quoting on that last message :/ also, one other thing to remember - when I made that map I was either 13 or 14, so yeah. :P