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Aquila Chrysaetos

Eagle Mapping Project - RC2

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Yeah I also played the first three maps and came across the same issue as @galileo31dos01 on the second map regarding the Baron. I just left him alive and saved the hassle of the Cyberdemon. I also testing it with killing the Baron and poor Cyberdemon got stuck. Maybe make the lines block monster?

Screenshot_Doom_20181212_104428.png

Also @galileo31dos01 it's interesting you say the third map has too little ammo. I've had people say its an easy map. I myself did not regard it as easy and sat on the more tight on ammo stress just like you, but I've watched a demo and received written feedback and they finished it fairly easily for lack of better words, so I just think its down to the player and how they choose to use ammo and infighting tech

EDIT: Third not second map, sorry

Edited by Bushpig2dope

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On 12/11/2018 at 9:14 PM, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

Grey, blue, red, green, brown, orange, yellow, and purple are possible colors.

Oh, didn't realise orange was an option. Any chance I could change to that please?

 

I'll try and play through them all over the weekend

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So I was able to complete the first map. A very unique opener in the way it introduces so many enemies, yet stays relatively tame (even on UV). I like the layout, the look, everything about the level. My only gripe is that the SSG is possibly not the best weapon to try and snipe Revs on lifted platforms.

 

Taking a quick glance at the other maps, it reminds me to revamp my map for the final release, as my map's layout and architecture does not look anywhere near as good.

 

I will try and get more feedback tomorrow. Sorry if the feedback for map 01 is rushed; I can go more in depth later, when I have time.

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I apologize for not keeping my promise to review maps yesterday. Here are a few reviews, for maps 2-4:

Map 02: Turquoise Glow 

Short, sweet, looks good. Nice use of textures, especially lights. The Cyberdemon feels a little superfluous, but overall a good map.

 

Map 03: Reclaimed Facility

Talk about a surge in difficulty. This map is much longer, and more stressful. I particularly liked the use of Demons and Spectres; they were placed in fights effectively. I also liked the small details like holes in the walls, where Imps could reside and snipe from. I won't say the map is perfect, and some of it feels too dark. But it is overall a fun time. Perhaps it could be a later map, given the difficulty.

 

Map 04: Overgrowth

This one is weird. The architecture in the beginning is very boxy, and the lighting is very flat for the most part, which gives off almost a dreamlike feel. That said, I'd add a few shadows here and there, especially in the beginning area, just to make it a little more lively. The gameplay is interesting, going for small, disconnected setpieces rather than a free field for monsters to roam about. I do like the map and its quirks, but there can definitely be some improvements.

 

One room I found particularly odd, given that it is made almost entirely of lights. An interesting concept, but the textures could be broken up or refined to make it more appealing:

 


 

 

 

Screenshot_Doom_20181214_103938.png

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5 hours ago, obake said:

Map 04: Overgrowth

This one is weird. The architecture in the beginning is very boxy, and the lighting is very flat for the most part, which gives off almost a dreamlike feel. That said, I'd add a few shadows here and there, especially in the beginning area, just to make it a little more lively. The gameplay is interesting, going for small, disconnected setpieces rather than a free field for monsters to roam about. I do like the map and its quirks, but there can definitely be some improvements.

 

One room I found particularly odd, given that it is made almost entirely of lights. An interesting concept, but the textures could be broken up or refined to make it more appealing:

 

Screenshot_Doom_20181214_103938.png

Heh, thanks for the feedback! The inspiration for this map is actually loosely based on Portal 2- I wanted to give the feeling of clean and detached rather than flow-through.

Yeah, that orange hallway I had no idea what to do with, it's probably my least favorite part of the map but I wasn't sure how to fix it. So... lights everywhere. :P

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Some feedback...

 

First off, everyone's maps look great and well polished and given the wide range of play styles on display here, they all play well for the most part. I'm proud to have been a part of the project!

 

I'm playing through on HMP unless otherwise stated - sorry if that's not how you intended for your map to be played!
I made an effort to try and finish all the maps, and abused saves a lot in some cases. Unfortunately I didn't finish MAP11 or MAP12, mainly due to being worn out from the other maps.

 

I've tried to point out any genuine issues I found but most of the maps didn't really have any problems so, it's just kind of like my opinions maaaaaan.

 

MAP01 - The Old Way - Aquila Chrysaetos

Spoiler

I suck at maps like this so unfortunately I had to race through this with only 33% kills (HMP). Could have gotten more through infighting but I was too impatient, especially with the small amount of ammo. On my first run I though you had to arch vile jump to get the super shotgun but found on my second run you can just pick it up from below. Visually it's fairly basic but solid and consistent. I'd maybe move it to later on in the pack as for me it feels quite intense to have as the opener.


MAP02 - Turquoise Glow - DanielAlexander

Spoiler

Short and sweet map with some really great usage of the texture pack. In fact one of my favourites in the mapset visually. The colour theming works really well - nice touch with the blue SS guys as well. Gameplay-wise I like the potential for infighting and pressure to keep moving from the fights. A couple of minor niggles: it's difficult (impossible?) to avoid soulsphere at beginning. It would be nice to have the option to keep that for later. Also, the switch to get up the lift outside is quite difficult to use in the middle of a fight, although maybe that's intentional so you can't cheese the combat too easily. And lastly the cyber feels a little bit superfluous at the end but does keep the pressure on.


MAP03 - Reclaimed Facility - Bushpig2dope

Spoiler

 

The first longer map of the pack, but doesn't overstay its welcome. Really nice visuals with a mix of environments. I think I prefer the early and mid portions more than the tech base at the end, but it's all really nice world building and gives an interesting contrast. There's some cool details throughout the map, like the flooded area and all the holes in the walls etc. I like the very last room where it looks like something from the old abandoned tech base is being analysed in the new hi-tech area.

 

I really enjoyed the combat here too. Trying to cause more infighting in the spiderdemon fight by dipping in and lowering his platform then dipping out again was fun. There's a few points where you need to think and move quickly to avoid being wasted (the chaingunners appearing behind you at the start, falling into the spiderdemon pit, the AV at the end). Good stuff overall. My kind of map, one of my favourites.

 


MAP04 - Overgrowth - MajorArlene
 

Spoiler

 

As has already been said, the opening of this map feels very flat visually and the texture use throughout is a bit odd (lots of lights). Combined with the music though, the map has a kind of eerie sterile feel, and it makes you wonder what is going to be behind the next door. It would have been nice to see more height variation, as almost all the action takes place on the same height plane.

 

Apart from the final 2 fights, the combat takes place in quite claustrophobic environments where positioning is pretty important. Then the final two fights give you a lot more space to move around but throw a lot more at you, which is a nice contrast from the rest of the map but can take you by surprise if you aren't expecting it.

 

One thing I found is that there doesn't seem to be a way of getting out of the lava in the room after the yellow door, but there is a way out of a similar pit in a room earlier on (teleporter), which is inconsistent.

 

 

MAP05 - Hidden Beyond the Mountains - DMPhobos

Spoiler

Definitely one of my favourites of the set. This map looks incredible to me, using the texture pack perfectly, and has a sprawling non-linear layout which encourages exploration and resource gathering. The combat is also really well balanced, with open flowing combat mixed with a couple of nasty lock-ins. One very minor thing I noticed is that you can't leave the final area once you are locked in, although unless you're playing continuous or secret hunting, this isn't really a problem.


MAP06 - Hellish Reverse - Obake

Spoiler

Quite a dark atmospheric map. The tense music combined with the dark confined layout had me on edge for most of this map. You can have quite varied experiences with this depending on which way you go first, which is interesting. Combat keeps the pressure on as walls drop revealing more enemies. I think the look of the map is fairly basic, but it works well with the dark and moody aesthetic, and it plays well.

 

MAP07 - Pacing Death's Trail - WindbagJacket

My map.

 

MAP08 - Alpha Centauri - Aquila Chrysaetos

Spoiler

 

Oh wow, this map is huge and looks fantastic throughout, with tons of variety and detail. There were lots of architectural features that I really liked. Clearly a tremendous amount of time and effort was invested here and it pays off in the aesthetics of the map. I have to say though, I struggled on the gameplay side of things.

 

From the start, ammo felt very scarce. This is a massive map and I lost count of how many times I ran out of ammo, especially early on when you only have shells and bullets to mow down lots of enemies.


There were a few situations where there were lots of enemies on a platform above me, who couldn't reach me but I could easily shoot and dodge their fire, and it just took so long to mow them down with the chaingun or shotguns that it felt like a bit of a grind. Especially if I forgot to save beforehand and then died soon after, which happened a lot. The feeling of grind was intensified by the frequent use of barons, who soaked up a lot of my precious ammo throughout the map. On the flip side, there were times where it was very satisfying to blast through waves of fodder when I had the ammo for it.

 

Surprisingly, the spiderdemon fight turned out a lot easier than I thought it would compared to some of the earlier fights, and from then onward I didn't have any real problems. I was surprised to see that I was at the exit with ~250 enemies left alive, so I obviously missed some content (the red key stuff). Looking in GZDB, I see you can't actually access the red skull door after you've progressed so far into the map, any reason for that? It seems a curious decision.

 

Some specific issues:

In this room early on, the hell knights can't get down these stairs. Maybe intentional though.
 Screenshot_Doom_20181215_152508.png.4031ff40512f3554fdd352e11b1259d5.png

 

The switch leading to the blur sphere secret with all the zombiemen. It appears to be S1, was that intentional or should it be SR?
Screenshot_Doom_20181215_154052.png.e0482a4095f7c94e3fb51bc67991740b.png

 

I'm not sure how I did it, but twice I managed to accidentally activate the switch that leads back to the start area from later on in the map, from the wrong side of the wall. I wasn't able to do this again when I actually tried, so I'm really not sure what happened. This is the switch I mean:
Screenshot_Doom_20181215_161631.png.3956a50a44a45d291c1decd1d3b836ca.png

 

A few times I wasn't sure if you intended jumping to be used to progress. Maybe I just really suck at platforming but there's a couple of times where I had to jump to progress (getting out of the blue key room, traversing the area with the red eagle key, even a couple of secrets looked like they needed a jump).

 


MAP09 - Winter's Reach - Pegleg

Spoiler

 

I found this map really tough but fun to play through. Ammo felt tight, but I think it was due to my mismanagement of it. I probably wasted some ammo on the enemies outside after finding my way there from the starting room. That said, I think I'd find it hard to 100% this given the enemies high up outside, even with better ammo management.

 

I quite like the layout - there's a mix of tight and more open combat areas with lots of height variation. You also always have to be aware of windows because enemy fire can come at you from any direction when you least expect it, which is a nice touch that keeps you on your toes.

 

The plasma rifle appearing after grabbing the red eagle key felt a bit pointless to me, because I didn't need to kill anything else to get to the exit from that point. Also the mancubus spawn in afterward seemed broken for me. It appeared a few seconds after the plasma rifle and then stayed stuck and didn't attack me as I punched it to death.
Screenshot_Doom_20181215_175046.png.a7f8f022c83b539d42b75c4258b44088.png

 

Just before the red key - I don't think it's possibel to pick up this stimpack.
Screenshot_Doom_20181215_174953.png.4b6469eed6862de1d9cf6088e750a59b.png

 

I think it's possible to get stuck and not be able to progress here, if you fall off the platform after raising it, you can't get back up and therefore can't get to the red key.
Screenshot_Doom_20181215_174052.png.fc9c2f64034e9e438ffc7f3f5af9a442.png

 

Oh and the small room which looks like a secret but has an archvile in it was a bit of a dick move :D.

 


MAP10 - Dream State - NoReason

Spoiler

An all-out slugfest set among some dream-like megastructures. I typically don't like this style of map, and there were some pretty fiendish lock-ins here (looking at you archviles), but this was really good fun to play through. Some of the encounters were hard but fair, and I managed to find a way through them all without too much trouble or frustration. Visually the map looks really nice, very abstract with lots of interesting geometry, including lots of curves.


I was disappointed that there wasn't really anything down in the water. On my first play of this I spent some time searching everywhere down there, only to find nothing.


---
At this point I got a bit burnt out from playing so didn't really do the next 2 maps justice. Anyway...
---

MAP11 - Ancient Splinters - BioRenegat

Spoiler

Because of being burnt out, I couldn't face playing all the way through this - another large map. I did have a few brief attempts, and had done a god mode playthrough to poke around a couple of weeks ago. There's some really interesting ideas here, and the map looks fantastic, with the kind of rundown, rusty structures that this texture set works really well for. The black void area looks really interesting, and the room early on where you have to keep the archviles away by re-using the switch was really cool, I haven't seen that done before.


MAP12 - Miraculous - NoReason

Spoiler

This funky looking map is essentially a lobby and two small arenas with intense encounters with lots of enemies spawning in. Sadly, after a few tries I couldn't survive either of them, although again I couldn't face having too many tries after playing the rest of the set. The visuals are really cool looking and unique - the red and green is a nice fit for the holiday season too!

 

Overall, I had fun. It's a very diverse map set. Good job everyone!

 

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2 hours ago, WindbagJacket said:

Oh wow, this map is huge and looks fantastic throughout, with tons of variety and detail. There were lots of architectural features that I really liked. Clearly a tremendous amount of time and effort was invested here and it pays off in the aesthetics of the map. I have to say though, I struggled on the gameplay side of things.

Thanks, that's high praise on the visual structure. About that gameplay, I must admit that I expected this to happen for a few people.

 

2 hours ago, WindbagJacket said:

From the start, ammo felt very scarce. This is a massive map and I lost count of how many times I ran out of ammo, especially early on when you only have shells and bullets to mow down lots of enemies.

I understand what you mean, and I'll be sure to add some more ammo and take away a few of the beefier monsters that really just act as blockage earlier on.

That said, when I tested it, I found that I always wound up with a large surplus of ammo by the time I got to the classical ruins past the blue door.

 

2 hours ago, WindbagJacket said:

I was surprised to see that I was at the exit with ~250 enemies left alive, so I obviously missed some content (the red key stuff). Looking in GZDB, I see you can't actually access the red skull door after you've progressed so far into the map, any reason for that? It seems a curious decision.

Originally, the red eagle secret was supposed to be exitable with three keys before I changed it to the red card that it is now. I realized it would be possible to just leave the fight if the player already had the yellow eagle, so I made the door close off when you get to the classical ruins.

It's a strange decision, admittedly, but one I'd prefer to keep. I kind of like the way it works.

 

2 hours ago, WindbagJacket said:

In this room early on, the hell knights can't get down these stairs. Maybe intentional though.

I think I'll keep that. The only thing behind there is a switch that makes it easy to get out of the orange juice you just came from, so it's not really too important, and it keeps the first real fight from being too difficult, in my opinion.

 

2 hours ago, WindbagJacket said:

The switch leading to the blur sphere secret with all the zombiemen. It appears to be S1, was that intentional or should it be SR?

Completely intentional. I felt the player has enough time to get through the door after hitting the switch and that, given it's a secret area, a S1 action would be more appropriate.

 

2 hours ago, WindbagJacket said:

I'm not sure how I did it, but twice I managed to accidentally activate the switch that leads back to the start area from later on in the map, from the wrong side of the wall. I wasn't able to do this again when I actually tried, so I'm really not sure what happened.

Not sure I understand. Do you mean to say you activated it repeatedly or you activated it long before you got to that side of the wall?

 

2 hours ago, WindbagJacket said:

A few times I wasn't sure if you intended jumping to be used to progress. Maybe I just really suck at platforming but there's a couple of times where I had to jump to progress (getting out of the blue key room, traversing the area with the red eagle key, even a couple of secrets looked like they needed a jump).

Jumping isn't strictly necessary, and indeed, I didn't test the map with jumping in mind, it's just that the platforming is rather difficult.

For the blue eagle room, you need to SR40 across all the pillars in a single run, though SR50 might be able to carry you across the big gap.

In the red eagle cave, SR40 is enough to get you where you need to go, but getting to the eagle itself can be difficult because of blocking walls and needing to squeeze around them to cover gaps.

 

Thanks for the detailed feedback! I'm glad you enjoyed it (and the wad) overall.

If others want me to move The Old Way a little farther back, I can do that, I had just intended for it to be the opener map.

 

3 hours ago, obake said:

Hey, @Aquila Chrysaetos, I hope it's okay I added some wall details to some rooms for the next update of my map.

Looks nice! I was going to do it myself, but I changed my mind, thinking it might "ruin the authenticity" a bit.

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21 hours ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

Not sure I understand. Do you mean to say you activated it repeatedly or you activated it long before you got to that side of the wall?

I meant I activated it before I got to that side of the wall. Basically I activated it at the beginning of the level... somehow. Maybe just a freak bug though - I didn't even know it was there the first time.

 

21 hours ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

If others want me to move The Old Way a little farther back, I can do that, I had just intended for it to be the opener map.

Yeah thinking about it and playing through the rest, I don't know what other map I would put first instead, so forget I said that!

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If you've modified your map, go ahead and put it up so I have the updated versions for when I put up RC2 tomorrow.

After that, we'll do another ten days or so of playtesting and if no issues are found or changes are made, we'll get this thing up on idgames.

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On 12/15/2018 at 3:47 PM, WindbagJacket said:

MAP09 - Winter's Reach - Pegleg

  Hide contents

 

I found this map really tough but fun to play through. Ammo felt tight, but I think it was due to my mismanagement of it. I probably wasted some ammo on the enemies outside after finding my way there from the starting room. That said, I think I'd find it hard to 100% this given the enemies high up outside, even with better ammo management.

 

I quite like the layout - there's a mix of tight and more open combat areas with lots of height variation. You also always have to be aware of windows because enemy fire can come at you from any direction when you least expect it, which is a nice touch that keeps you on your toes.

 

Thank you. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I made some changes. @Aquila Chrysaetos Here is the latest version, which used the version in RC1 as a starting point. I left the sky transfer alone, because I didn't remember if you had fixed it or not.

 

On 12/15/2018 at 3:47 PM, WindbagJacket said:
Spoiler

The plasma rifle appearing after grabbing the red eagle key felt a bit pointless to me, because I didn't need to kill anything else to get to the exit from that point. Also the mancubus spawn in afterward seemed broken for me. It appeared a few seconds after the plasma rifle and then stayed stuck and didn't attack me as I punched it to death.
Screenshot_Doom_20181215_175046.png.a7f8f022c83b539d42b75c4258b44088.png

 

 

I was somewhat surprised to see the mancubus up on a pedestal. That wasn't my intention--I'm not sure why it's like that. I moved some sectors around and lowered that one down, because it should spawn on the floor.

 

On 12/15/2018 at 3:47 PM, WindbagJacket said:
Spoiler

Just before the red key - I don't think it's possibel to pick up this stimpack.
Screenshot_Doom_20181215_174953.png.4b6469eed6862de1d9cf6088e750a59b.png

 

 

I tried to fix that.

 

On 12/15/2018 at 3:47 PM, WindbagJacket said:
Spoiler

I think it's possible to get stuck and not be able to progress here, if you fall off the platform after raising it, you can't get back up and therefore can't get to the red key.
Screenshot_Doom_20181215_174052.png.fc9c2f64034e9e438ffc7f3f5af9a442.png

 

 

I changed the triggering, so just stepping on the platform should raise the switch that lowers the lift.

 

On 12/15/2018 at 3:47 PM, WindbagJacket said:
Spoiler

Oh and the small room which looks like a secret but has an archvile in it was a bit of a dick move :D.

 

 

That seems to be a relatively common response, down to the happiness afterward.

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EMproj-RC2.zip

 

Mostly tweaks from here, visual changes, or minor gameplay changes.

Map 8 has had the revenants removed from the aquaduct area because they really just served as fluff to shoot from below. Aside from that, no major changes I can think of.

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Giving this one last bump before I move on to the more proper release.

Any playtesting or bugs you want to work out, do it now or forever hold your peace.

If there's no activity on the thread, I'll move on to idgames release by the 3rd.

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3 hours ago, obake said:

Hopefully there will be a few streams soon!

 

Maybe we could ask someone to stream it. Whether it should be @Aquila Chrysaetos making the request, since he's the lead, is a separate question.

 

I once saw Ancalagon request for Megablast to stream 4800 Hell Knights and he did (back when the mapset was just in the first or second alpha and so was nowhere near ready to see the light of day, but that's a different story). This CP is basically ready for a final release, so it wouldn't be someone agreeing to stream a buggy mess.

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Possibly. I do want to see some fresh eyes on this before we get it out the door, and I don't expect many problems or bugs to crop up, but they might, and it's best to get them noticed now rather than after release. Reuploading to idgames is not something I am terribly inclined to do.

 

I already plan to ask MrZzul, Mega, and Nevanos to record a demo each for this, it might not be much of a stretch to ask them to stream any bits of it they want.

Other than them, if you have any ideas for someone in particular you want to stream the wad, feel free to name them here and/or ask them directly.

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If you're interested in having your map appear in one of the title demos, speak up now. I got MrZzul to agree to record one and Nevanos to record another. If Mega can't, I'll provide the last demo.

If I don't hear anything, I'll most likely choose at random for each of us.

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46 minutes ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

If you're interested in having your map appear in one of the title demos, speak up now. I got MrZzul to agree to record one and Nevanos to record another. If Mega can't, I'll provide the last demo.

If I don't hear anything, I'll most likely choose at random for each of us.

I'd like to have mine appear but I don't really have the knowledge of recording it (Though I'm sure a quick google search would inform me)

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1 hour ago, Aquila Chrysaetos said:

If you're interested in having your map appear in one of the title demos, speak up now.

*raises hand*

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I'm sure Major will make videos for the wad, I just don't know when. Suite is currently busy with Eternal Doom and other projects, so it's understandable he may not get to it. Perhaps if I start streaming, I could tackle it.

 

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@Dime and @MegaBlast were both streaming JoM 6; when they're done, they may be willing to stream Eagle.

@Bridgeburner56 may be tied up with his Refracted Reality map, but he might be willing, too.

I don't know if @Major Arlene is still streaming the Top 100 WADs, but I agree that she might be happy to do it.

 

I think any of the 4 of them would be good candidates. (They're all on your Discord channel, so this may have come up; I haven 't been able to get on Discord for the last few days to know, so sorry if that's the case.)

 

Otherwise, just looking at the Doom streams thread, I noticed that @Mr. Meanor is finishing Jenesis, so if he doesn't have anything else lined up, he might be open to streaming this mapset. And he hasn't been connected to this project at all, so it may be nice to get a completely fresh perspective.

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I'll probably be doing a video series (not a stream) on Eagle soon if it's ready now. Just had a lot of people at my house lately so it's been difficult to record. Hopefully will be able to do it next week.

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Pegleg said:

  

"Otherwise, just looking at the Doom streams thread, I noticed that @Mr. Meanor is finishing Jenesis, so if he doesn't have anything else lined up, he might be open to streaming this mapset. And he hasn't been connected to this project at all, so it may be nice to get a completely fresh perspective."

 

Actually just started Adventures of Square by @Jimmy last night, and when I'm done with that, then yeah, maybe I can take a look at this mapset on stream. Hope it's a good one *crosses fingers*

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