Mappers: What are some things that you'd like to incorporate more of in your designs, but find yourself struggling with?

[BLλZING_DUST]

Fun.

[hardcore_gamer]

1 hour ago, Chipchase said:

But then people complain that it's a "maze".

 

Very non-linear maps suck honestly. There should not be 4 different doors leading to 4 different places in every single fucking area.

[Antnee]

1 hour ago, Chipchase said:

But then people complain that it's a "maze".

 

It highly depends on how much backtracking there is, and whether or not there are clear directional cues to be picked up on.

 

If you make a gigantic map with tons of locked doors that require a button push in some random room with no way to tell what the hell the button just did...  Personally I'm probably done with the map at that point.

I like more linear maps with some "side paths".  I think there's a lot of weird ire directed at linear maps, and I'm not sure what the deal is with that.

[Novaseer]

Fun.

EDIT: tfw the person right at the top of the page made the exact same comment and you didn't see

Edited November 14, 2018 by Novaseer

[Deadwing]

1 hour ago, hardcore_gamer said:

 

Very non-linear maps suck honestly. There should not be 4 different doors leading to 4 different places in every single fucking area.

 

I love it (it shouldn't be doors, though)

[whirledtsar]

3 hours ago, Chipchase said:

But then people complain that it's a "maze".

It depends on how it's constructed. If there's a lot of windows/interconnected areas and landmarks, that shouldn't be the case.

[Roofi]

I have a lot of fun making diagonal layouts but it can be quite difficult and long.  I try consequently to make accurate diagonal structures faster without copy pasting

 

I also train myself to make rooms with various shapes instead of uninspired square rooms.

[hardcore_gamer]

2 hours ago, Deadwing said:

 

I love it (it shouldn't be doors, though)

 

I mean if the map is taking place outdoors it CAN work if done right. But if it's just a complex network of corridors and other indoor areas it just makes the map hard to navigate.

[Denim Destroyer]

Releasing more than one map a year or figuring out how to make more realistic location that doesn't have a ton of doors.

[Deadwing]

On 11/14/2018 at 5:09 PM, hardcore_gamer said:

 

I mean if the map is taking place outdoors it CAN work if done right. But if it's just a complex network of corridors and other indoor areas it just makes the map hard to navigate.

 

Nah, Mechadon's map on BTSX is just one huge non-linear facility (it even gives you the automap in the beginning) and it is my favorite from the wad.

[DooM_RO]

Everything, really, but especially layouts. I don't understand how people can just block out/sketch amazing and intricate layouts in just a few days. What another would do in a day, it would take a week or more to get done. I'm just really slow when it comes to this and it really frustrates me.

Edited November 24, 2018 by DooM_RO

[DooM_RO]

I think I have some kind of mental blockage because I think I am definitely capable of making cool maps. I've had a few dreams where I was in very intricate and detailed environments that would fit any classic game. One time, I was in a mansion with huge gothic architecture, with lots of winding, interconnected paths and verticality. The first thing that came to mind when I woke up "that would make a great Thief level."

 

If my mind cand conjure these kinds of places in a few moments, why do I get stuck when making levels? My creation process usually involves making a square room and then just staring at it like a dumbass until I make something good. There is little to no planning as well. I just kind of make it as I go, banging my head until it looks good, plays well and flows well.

[elend]

Well, same here. Outside I see lots of cool architecture (especially in China, where you can see lots of "brutalist" architecture and "non conventional" things) but once I want to map something in GzDoom Builder I create a square room and basically also stare at it for a while. I go from there without a real plan and sometimes just connect things randomly, just to see how it looks. Then, once I am finished, I noticed that my room is still kinda "square", it just has a bunch of detail in it.

 

I try to excuse this behaviour by saying: "Well, it's my second map. First I want to just build stuff and get to know the editor." For my next map I definitely want to think about gameplay first, block out a real layout and even think about encounters, before even placing a single texture.

[⇛Marnetmar⇛]

I have a very setpiecey dungeon crawler mentality when it comes to mapping, which doesn't translate well to Doom. I've tried doing more combat oriented spaces but I always get stuck and don't know what to do next.

[Not Jabba]

4 hours ago, Marn said:

setpiecey dungeon crawler mentality...doesn't translate well to Doom. 

I'm not sure I agree with this even an little bit :P

 

Quote

If my mind cand conjure these kinds of places in a few moments, why do I get stuck when making levels? My creation process usually involves making a square room and then just staring at it like a dumbass until I make something good.

Because it takes more than a few moments to build a room, imo. To actually do the building, you have to focus on a piece at a time. Take one thing out of the picture you had in your head and start working on it. Then do another piece. To paraphrase 40oz (and this is hands down my favorite mapping quote), the only reason your room looks bad is because it's not done yet. No matter what state it's in, if it's not something you like, then it's not done -- and the question you have to keep asking yourself is, what individual steps do i take, one at a time, to make it better?

Edited November 24, 2018 by Not Jabba

[AD_79]

Suggestion for those who say they build a square/rectangle room and then don't know what to do with it: just don't make a square room to start with, and if you can avoid it, almost never make them as well, heh. Pretty much any other shape will allow for more interesting designs and hopefully less staring at the editor not knowing what to do next. Sometimes it's good to just draw some semi-complex shapes and then just see how the layout develops from there.

[SOSU]

5 minutes ago, AD_79 said:

Suggestion for those who say they build a square/rectangle room and then don't know what to do with it: just don't make a square room to start with, and if you can avoid it, almost never make them as well, heh. Pretty much any other shape will allow for more interesting designs and hopefully less staring at the editor not knowing what to do next. Sometimes it's good to just draw some semi-complex shapes and then just see how the layout develops from there.

I just draw a bunch of squares and combine them so that it becomes a weird shape :)

 

On topic:

Detailing that isn't shit on walls and making outdoor enviorments and caves

[Breezeep]

I want to be able to start on a map and not lose interest almost immediately.

[SOSU]

16 hours ago, Breezeep said:

I want to be able to start on a map and not lose interest almost immediately.

Ever tried just taking all the scrapped maps and combining them all together? ;D

[NeptunesTyrant]

Detailing maps is my bane.

 

Also finding the balance between too much and too little resources in a map.

[DynamiteKaitorn]

A few things:

 

1 - Not making every map feel extremely linear

2 - Not constantly using the same few techniques to decorate a map

3 - Stop building the entire map constantly on the 64x64 parts of the grid, even when in 16x16 grid size (GZDBBF)

4 - To not give up so easily when I quickly lose track

5 - Making a map bigger without it feeling like I'm dragging out the map length for the sake of size

[wolfmcbeard]

Consistency, I've looked back at every map I'm working on and some areas are just dull while others seem very detailed...
and proper item/monster placement, this I've realized, I'm not very good at.   :/

[VanaheimRanger]

Puzzles.  I'm not sure how to make puzzles properly really.  It is probably because I don't really like puzzles, but a doom map without a puzzle is just "shoot enemies until you get to the exit"...I mean, that is fun too I guess, lol.

[Dutch Doomer]

Large indoor areas scare the shit out of me, just don't know what to do with all that space, something to work on I suppose...

[Optimus]

I focus too much on designing the spaces, sometimes mimicking things from other detailed maps I like (like splitting sectors to make smooth shadows, using many sectors to make real like things like broken pillars, debris, etc) so I entirely focus on this and then the gameplay becomes an afterthought. Then I decide to just fill monsters everywhere without much thought about monster placing. I also forget to bother about ammo/health balance, but usually I just put too much of it to make sure I gave enough to the player.