Oldschool Doom player, new to custom WADs, which are worth downloading?

[galileo31dos01]

1 minute ago, DoomNoob said:

Is it a safe bet to correlate "limit-removing" with prboom complevel 9 if nothing else is mentioned in a given txt?

 

It is advisable to search information in the internet, like the page I posted above, what other people used for recording, so you have an idea of what's best to use. Otherwise, see what mappers used for testing or what they suggest. Or else, yes complevel 9 should be fine, the most common thing you'll see is pushing monsters off a ledge that doesn't have invisible block lines. 

[Master O]

3 hours ago, DoomNoob said:

I've downloaded both Crispy Doom and PrBoom+.

What are some of the more popular / favorite WADs worth downloading? So far I've only downloaded Survive in Hell (Release #2) but looking for more. :)

 

https://www.doomworld.com/cacowards/

[DoomNoob]

Do most of you create dedicated shortcuts for each individual WAD with the correct command-line parameters for easier replayability?

 

Or do you pretty much just read the readme / run things manually every time?

[bioshockfan90]

21 minutes ago, DoomNoob said:

Do most of you create dedicated shortcuts for each individual WAD with the correct command-line parameters for easier replayability?

  

Or do you pretty much just read the readme / run things manually every time?

 

dude, youre loaded with questions tonight jesus (not a bad thing though, glad to answer them)

 

anyway, that'd be pretty silly to do, making shortcuts for each WAD. if you're using GZdoom, you can just go into the compatibility settings in the engine and set your compatibility ingame to whatever the wad requires (for example, -cl9 is Boom (Strict)).  if you're using PRboom or any other command-line based port, it's up to you to decide whether you're gonna just alt-D in your prboom folder, type "powershell" and just type up a command/paste one in from a notepad doc for a wad with the proper parameters or, like you said, create shortcuts. I personally wouldn't, that sounds like a lot of hassle based on all the wads you're downloading, so if you're playing in GZdoom it's not that big a deal, for PRboom it's a bit more work but that's up to you if you like either engine more

[Salt-Man Z]

1 hour ago, DoomNoob said:

Do most of you create dedicated shortcuts for each individual WAD with the correct command-line parameters for easier replayability?

 

Or do you pretty much just read the readme / run things manually every time?

I do the shortcuts thing. Once upon a time I used batch files, now they're just Windows shortcuts. Super easy to copy/paste to set up a new one, and each one specifies port, iwad, pwad(s), any mods, etc. I also use custom icons so I can tell at a glance if it's Doom, Doom 2, Heretic, Hexen, etc.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Salt-Man Z

[Pegleg]

47 minutes ago, DoomNoob said:

Do most of you create dedicated shortcuts for each individual WAD with the correct command-line parameters for easier replayability?

 

Or do you pretty much just read the readme / run things manually every time?

 

Alternately, there are various launchers and front ends you could try. I don't personally use them, but I play sparingly enough that loading maps manually is not too inefficient (for me). However, there are people that do use them and that think highly of them, and you can check out these (which are actually just different parts of the same thread, but they have different links within them):

 

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/1769805

 

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/1805079

 

 

[DoomNoob]

Thanks, guys. :)

 

I just finished downloading (most) of the Cacowards files plus the top 100 or so from that megathread (along with a small handful of other suggestions from random posts, etc). Oof there's a lot to go through, haha.

[Salt-Man Z]

54 minutes ago, DoomNoob said:

I just finished downloading (most) of the Cacowards files plus the top 100 or so from that megathread (along with a small handful of other suggestions from random posts, etc). Oof there's a lot to go through, haha.

And the community will continue to produce more quality content than you can ever hope to keep up with. Good luck! :)

[Doomkid]

If you want to commentate over gameplay, OBS is the thing to use, as mentioned by Tango. I knew nothing about streaming when I first used it and I still managed to get it working the first time, straightforward software and just as good for screen recording as FRAPS and so forth.

[Bauul]

Just to provide an alternative, arguably simpler, viewpoint to all of the above:

 

Don't worry too much about comp levels. 95% of vanilla/limit-removing/Boom wads will work fine with no comp level selected in prBoom+ at all. They exist primarily for demo playback (where a single microscopic change in the engine behavior can de-sync the demo) and those wads that utilized very specific engine hacks, features or effects. Just drag and drop the wad onto the .exe and off you go.

 

For any wad that is described as "ZDoom" or "GZDoom" use GZDoom. GZDoom also runs pretty much any other wad too, albeit with some minor (and they really are minor) gameplay differences. Personally I use GZDoom for every wad, unless I want that sweet hit of nostalgia, then I use Crispy.

 

Finally if you want to record yourself, personally I just use Windows 10. If you have it, it has full video and voice recording built natively into the OS. Just hit Win-G on the keyboard once the game has loaded, click "yes this is a game" and the rest is self-explanatory. 

[Kira]

9 hours ago, DoomNoob said:

Do most of you create dedicated shortcuts for each individual WAD with the correct command-line parameters for easier replayability?

 

Or do you pretty much just read the readme / run things manually every time?

I sort everything in folders with .bat files that are set according to what I see in the readme. I favor prboom+ so I'm mostly making sure I have the proper complevel and sometimes intended deh to use for specific maps (see slaughterfest 2011 in the example below). I like it because I can then create folders where I sort my .bat files according to how much I like the maps or the gameplay style, or even copy paste and change a file so that I go straight to the map I focus on. Quite useful when you have dozens of pwads to juggle with over decades.

For (g)zdoom it allows me to easily juggle with different config files so I can e.g. play with mouselook + jump on some pwads and "vanilla" controls on others.

The con is that you must plan a good folders tree to keep the command lines as simple as you can. Usually I have a dedicated "sourceports" folder with a subfolder for each, and unzip all wads into their own folders then proceed to cut and paste the wads themselves into a common one (so I can keep the -file command super easy plus convenient prboom+ demo playback, while avoiding conflicting readme filenames etc).

[DoomNoob]

1 hour ago, Kira said:

I sort everything in folders with .bat files that are set according to what I see in the readme. I favor prboom+ so I'm mostly making sure I have the proper complevel and sometimes intended deh to use for specific maps (see slaughterfest 2011 in the example below). I like it because I can then create folders where I sort my .bat files according to how much I like the maps or the gameplay style, or even copy paste and change a file so that I go straight to the map I focus on. Quite useful when you have dozens of pwads to juggle with over decades.

For (g)zdoom it allows me to easily juggle with different config files so I can e.g. play with mouselook + jump on some pwads and "vanilla" controls on others.

The con is that you must plan a good folders tree to keep the command lines as simple as you can. Usually I have a dedicated "sourceports" folder with a subfolder for each, and unzip all wads into their own folders then proceed to cut and paste the wads themselves into a common one (so I can keep the -file command super easy plus convenient prboom+ demo playback, while avoiding conflicting readme filenames etc).

 

Can you post a sample .bat? I'm curious how deep into the settings one might normally go when launching a specific WAD. Do you typically customize anything in the way of settings or mostly just setting the iwad and file, etc? Do you also set complevels or anything else?

[Nine Inch Heels]

13 minutes ago, DoomNoob said:

Can you post a sample .bat? I'm curious how deep into the settings one might normally go when launching a specific WAD. Do you typically customize anything in the way of settings or mostly just setting the iwad and file, etc? Do you also set complevels or anything else?

phmlspdM12NM.zip

[Salt-Man Z]

1 hour ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

phmlspdM12NM.zip

All that .bat does is run a command line (not that there's anything wrong with that), which can also be done with a Windows shortcut.

 

3 hours ago, Kira said:

The con is that you must plan a good folders tree to keep the command lines as simple as you can. Usually I have a dedicated "sourceports" folder with a subfolder for each, and unzip all wads into their own folders then proceed to cut and paste the wads themselves into a common one (so I can keep the -file command super easy plus convenient prboom+ demo playback, while avoiding conflicting readme filenames etc).

I honestly don't see how a good organizational system is a "con". I do the same, but since I use GZDoom for 99% of my WADs, I don't have to unzip them; I just rename them to something readable, "BackToSaturnXEp1.zip" for example. (And then I have my "WADs" folder subdivided by IWAD.)

[Nine Inch Heels]

3 minutes ago, Salt-Man Z said:

All that .bat does is run a command line (not that there's anything wrong with that), which can also be done with a Windows shortcut

that is he point of such a bat. You run it and it starts recording right away.

[Kira]

3 hours ago, DoomNoob said:

Can you post a sample .bat? I'm curious how deep into the settings one might normally go when launching a specific WAD. Do you typically customize anything in the way of settings or mostly just setting the iwad and file, etc? Do you also set complevels or anything else?

Here is the Slaughterfest 2011 example once more on my current setup (I've been lazy about sourceports here and paths aren't portable at all):

"D:\Program Files (x86)\Doom\files\prboom-plus\prboom-plus.exe" -iwad doom2.wad -file sf2011.wad -complevel 9

for the wad and here it is for the maps 28/29, where another wad was supplied to improve visibility when there are hundreds of cacodemon corpses:
 

"D:\Program Files (x86)\Doom\files\prboom-plus\prboom-plus.exe" -iwad doom2.wad -file sf2011.wad sf2011tod.wad -warp 28 -skill 4 -complevel 9

I don't have a zdoom example right now but I essentially use the config parameter and don't bother with compatibility flags.

It isn't much of an overhead to set it up because indeed, most of the time I simply copy-paste another bat and change the -file and -complevel bits. As you can see in the second example, you can also directly give the map and skill you want to play at, which I often use since I only do pistol starts and never use saves.

But we are in 2018, maybe there are good apps that allow the same level of case-by-case customization and organization.

Edited November 20, 2018 by Kira : Commas save lives

[KVELLER]

Something I want to add to the topic of source ports: While, as Bauul said, you can use GZDoom to run anything, be aware of the fact that due to the great amount of additions to the code, its performance can be less than ideal on complex maps, even if you have a high-end PC. Also, while it is an extremely rare occurrence, there is a chance that you come across some maps whose authors relied on behaviour that is specific to the vanilla/Boom engine without even noticing, resulting in the player being flat out unable to complete the map under GZDoom. Personal experience.

[DoomNoob]

Do most people usually keep the default graphics settings when playing Crispy / PrBoom / GZDoom / etc?

[Misty]

Well, I always check settings to make port, controls, mouse feel comfortable for me. No fun to play doom stuff if controls aren't rebinded to comfortable scheme for me. 

[Nine Inch Heels]

13 minutes ago, DoomNoob said:

Do most people usually keep the default graphics settings when playing Crispy / PrBoom / GZDoom / etc?

Dude, who cares? Nobody ever gets to see your graphics settings anyway when you record a demo.lmp, because all it does is it records player input, and some other stuff that is gonna be irrelevant for you in the first place. Use the graphic settings that work for you

[Bauul]

^^^ This times a hundred.  Change them to whatever you want.  The simpler source ports have fewer options while the more advanced ones have absolutely loads.  But they're all just graphics at the end of the day, set them to whatever you like the look of.

 

That being said, one thing most people will agree on is to turn off Texture Filtering in GZDoom.  Doom graphics are pixel art, and are generally considered to look best without the pixels being smushed together (although of course it's a personal choice and if you like Texture Filtering then all power to you!)

[DoomNoob]

I only asked because I wasn't sure if even different graphic settings would sometimes impact how a wad was meant to be experienced -- I came across a few where they specifically mention things like this.

Thanks for the tip about GZDoom though -- things like that are what I'm trying to get at as well.

(I know some of these questions are noob... just didn't want to go to the hassle of recording something only to have people go "lol, why didn't you turn on/off [insert obscure setting here everyone usually turns off/on]")

[Nine Inch Heels]

1 minute ago, DoomNoob said:

I only asked because I wasn't sure if even different graphic settings would sometimes impact how a wad was meant to be experienced -- I came across a few where they specifically mention things like this 

Not relevant for actual gameplay in most cases. Some wads that focus more on visuals may want to have brightmaps active for fancy lighting effects, but that's about it. And even if that is the case, a recorded demo will not care about that when played back.

[Kira]

The only sticky point to me is that some vanilla effects don't display properly with opengl rendering (like the deep water in Alien Vendetta Map 01). I used to routinely bug devs about that (don't leave immature brats around doomworld) but there's nothing to be done I think. "Thankfully" software rendering grew on me again after a while. Maybe it won't bug you as much as it did to me.

Anyway, I didn't know how to add a quote that's mentioning an user when editing with this "new" interface, so I was waiting for new posts:

2 hours ago, Salt-Man Z said:

I honestly don't see how a good organizational system is a "con".

You are right! I worded it poorly but I assume it's an hassle to plan this beforehand when you are new to pwad and sourceport goodness. I strongly recommend doing it ASAP if you enjoy your time here though.

 

By the way I guess it's true that shortcuts give the same functionality as a .bat with how me and @Nine Inch Heels use them, but I find it quicker to access the command parameters I want to change with notepad. I am a super lazy user.

[KVELLER]

1 hour ago, Kira said:

The only sticky point to me is that some vanilla effects don't display properly with opengl rendering (like the deep water in Alien Vendetta Map 01).

 

Not entirely true. GZDoom is capable of emulating this perfectly nowadays, but it's true that not every port can (GLBoom+ can't at least).

[Bauul]

1 hour ago, DoomNoob said:

I only asked because I wasn't sure if even different graphic settings would sometimes impact how a wad was meant to be experienced -- I came across a few where they specifically mention things like this.

 

There's a scale.  Playing a classic vanilla Doom wad with all of GZDoom's bells and whistles turned on is like watching a 1920's silent movie on an OLED TV.  While yeah you're not viewing it how it was "meant to be experienced" (namely in a cinema with a live pianist surrounded by cigarette smoke), and there might be some minor things (like color and aspect ratio) that aren't quite the same as the true projected original, at the end of the day it's still the same movie, and the other modern quality-of-life improvements are often worth it.

 

How much you choose to balance between the "authentic experience" and the ease of modern source ports is entirely a personal choice.  Some people refuse to play anything other than Chocolate Doom (about the closest to the original DOS experience we have) while others insist on the latest version of GZDoom and a dozen graphical mods to make it look all fancy.

 

Where you personally feel most comfortable is something you'll learn as you start to play the wads and try out the source ports.  You'll start to get a sense of what feels "right" for you.  The best thing to do is to try out as much as you can, because a: this gives you the widest selection of choices from which to pick your preferred approach, and b: having a good knowledge of the various source ports can be handy in the unlikely event your approach of choice doesn't work with a particular map.

 

Generally though you're going the right way around it: play lots, try lots, and sooner rather than later you'll settle into your own personal groove.

[DoomNoob]

5 minutes ago, Bauul said:

 

There's a scale.  Playing a classic vanilla Doom wad with all of GZDoom's bells and whistles turned on is like watching a 1920's silent movie on an OLED TV.  While yeah you're not viewing it how it was "meant to be experienced" (namely in a cinema with a live pianist surrounded by cigarette smoke), and there might be some minor things (like color and aspect ratio) that aren't quite the same as the true projected original, at the end of the day it's still the same movie, and the other modern quality-of-life improvements are often worth it.

 

How much you choose to balance between the "authentic experience" and the ease of modern source ports is entirely a personal choice.  Some people refuse to play anything other than Chocolate Doom (about the closest to the original DOS experience we have) while others insist on the latest version of GZDoom and a dozen graphical mods to make it look all fancy.

 

Where you personally feel most comfortable is something you'll learn as you start to play the wads and try out the source ports.  You'll start to get a sense of what feels "right" for you.  The best thing to do is to try out as much as you can, because a: this gives you the widest selection of choices from which to pick your preferred approach, and b: having a good knowledge of the various source ports can be handy in the unlikely event your approach of choice doesn't work with a particular map.

 

Generally though you're going the right way around it: play lots, try lots, and sooner rather than later you'll settle into your own personal groove.

Makes sense. Thanks. :)

In what ways is Chocolate Doom only "the closest" thing we've got to the original / are there any actual noticeable differences? When I was trying it out it seemed darn near identical (at least, to my memory).

[KVELLER]

1 hour ago, DoomNoob said:

In what ways is Chocolate Doom only "the closest" thing we've got to the original / are there any actual noticeable differences? When I was trying it out it seemed darn near identical (at least, to my memory).

 

There aren't (or at least shouldn't be) any differences at all. The only real differences are under the hood (the fact that it can run natively on modern OSs, etc), but the goal of that port is to be as faithful as possible to the DOS original.

[Bauul]

The other thing it's worth knowing about Chocolate Doom is it faithfully retains the 'limits' of the original Doom executable.  Originally there were a bunch of hard limits on level complexity that would crash the game if a mapper made a level too detailed.  One of the first things source port authors did was to remove many of those limits, allowing for bigger and more detailed maps, even without any advanced features present in later source-ports.  These maps are described as "limit-removing", and most wads (even if they use no advanced features at all) tend to be at the very least limit-removing.  True vanilla maps (i.e. maps that work within the original limits) are relatively rare in comparison.

 

Chocolate Doom will crash if you try to run any of these limit-removing maps, but people still liked the authentic experience it provided.  The solution came about in the form of Crispy Doom, an offshoot of Chocolate Doom that adds just a few quality of life improvements, most notably higher resolutions and the removal of those limits.

 

Chocolate is an incredibly important source port, but if you find its authentic limits are a little too authentic for your liking, Crispy is the way to go.

[Kira]

2 hours ago, KVELLER said:

 

Not entirely true. GZDoom is capable of emulating this perfectly nowadays, but it's true that not every port can (GLBoom+ can't at least).

This is good to know. I remember being told back then that it wasn't something that could be solved, but I'm glad it eventually happened.