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Phoby

Does anyone else find Doom 3 mediocre?

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Don't get me wrong, I've played through Doom 3 several times, but it just feels like another linear alien themed fps game. The only parts of the game that I really loved were the hell levels. Personally, I think Resurrection of Evil works better as a 'Doom 3' than the actual Doom 3.

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Nah, "mediocre" is too strong a word from my POV.

 

It's a good game but it has some deep flaws in its design (very linear levels with little exploration to do and variety, overused jumpscares, weirdly balanced weapons such as the pump shotgun, etc. Corridor from corridor with a few exceptions). I agree that the Hell levels are also the best because it presents a rather unique atmosphere not seen in most horror (or hell) themed shooters. It's not just dark and gloomy but also bizarre, and frightening in its strangeness.

 

It would've been a better game if it didn't focus too much on the element of horror as a sort of mechanic as opposed to just an element to create atmosphere. Had it abandoned the "IT'S SCARY IN THIS BASE INVADED BY DEMONS!!!" cliche it would've been a more enjoyable experience.

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On 11/23/2018 at 4:12 PM, Phoby said:

Personally, I think Resurrection of Evil works better as a 'Doom 3' than the actual Doom 3.

 

Why? It doesn't do anything fundamentally different than the main game.

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5 hours ago, Tetzlaff said:

 

Why? It doesn't do anything fundamentally different than the main game.

It's a lot more visually hellish and the plot is more akin to what Doom should be in my opinion.

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the main DooM 3 flaw, i think, is its length. you just cannot build a scary game of that length by utilizing the same tricks again and again: it becomes boring quite soon. yes, i understand that making it two hour length game won't work from commercial point. but... first 30 minutes or so are good: i felt myself scared, and alone, and "wtf is going on there?" first 20-30 minutes of hell part were good too. but that is how long i enjoyed it before it started to be boring.

 

dunno... i can't call it "mediocre", but it is not good too. something inbetween, i guess. better than mediocre, but worser than good. ;-)

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42 minutes ago, ketmar said:

the main DooM 3 flaw, i think, is its length. you just cannot build a scary game of that length by utilizing the same tricks again and again: it becomes boring quite soon. yes, i understand that making it two hour length game won't work from commercial point. but... first 30 minutes or so are good: i felt myself scared, and alone, and "wtf is going on there?" first 20-30 minutes of hell part were good too. but that is how long i enjoyed it before it started to be boring.

 

dunno... i can't call it "mediocre", but it is not good too. something inbetween, i guess. better than mediocre, but worser than good. ;-)

 

Average would probably be the word. Eh, synonym for mediocre but less negative nonetheless.

 

The length and its repetitiveness are the main flaws. Indeed, just like you said you can literally spend 30min or an hour on the base and that's it, you know how all those levels work, same for Hell. This is why I think that it would've been a better game if it shifted the focus from horror to action later on in order to keep things exciting and do something more creative with the base levels. Heck, Black Mesa Research Facility is a more interesting place to explore lol.

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I agree with @ketmar with the length. The game being amazing with its lighting, graphics and technology makes it feel like a really good and memorable 30 minute tech demo spread out to last 10 hours.

 

I keep mentioning this but that leaked (and terribly buggy) Alpha blew my mind. I craved for more but in the middle of Doom 3 I was over it except for the Hell levels.

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compaired to now, ya, doom 3 is pretty mediocre. When it came out it was pretty wonderful. It has not aged well, in design.

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Well I played and enjoyed it for the first time in ages, I find it still has generally better mechanics and longer length than say the CoD games and other mediocre shooters of this day. I have found barely many good FPS games these days, Deus Ex Mankind Divided was one which I did enjoy but not as much as the previous game Human Revolution.

Edited by Avoozl

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Mediocre... not really.

 

But very one-note, and only good if you like jumpscare-style scares. Which personally bores me to death.

 

And coming off the first few Doom games, it was a definite letdown.

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On 11/24/2018 at 2:41 AM, Agent6 said:

very linear levels with little exploration to do and variety

Well to be fair quite a few games from that time were also linear, Half Life 2, Halo CE and to an extent even Far Cry.

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On 11/23/2018 at 7:41 AM, Agent6 said:

POV

are you aware that that is a porno term

Anyways, I personally strongly dislike Doom3. DooM and DooM II: Hell on Earth are amazing and seeing how Doom3 tried to do what it did to the DooM franchise, I got really pissed off. Thank god DOOM 4 and DOOM Eternal are much better. I may not have played DOOM Eternal but it look very promising and is just like what DooM II is to DooM: Something that even before you play it, you know it'll be very similar and just as awesome.

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Basically, it tried to take DooM, amplify the horror aspect, but then completely erase the fast-paced high-action thrills of the first two. Which is why I in fact hate Doom3.

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You kidding right?  I'm currently playing Doom3 and it's awesome, the ambience/horror atmosphere really catches me and sometimes make me jump scared, really well done, different pace from classic Doom, but I think it's a very cool different approach to the genre

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I think the game is strictly average. Never really felt anything particularly positive or negative about it.

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7 hours ago, Avoozl said:

Well to be fair quite a few games from that time were also linear, Half Life 2, Halo CE and to an extent even Far Cry.

 

True, but Valve for instance at least tried to add some exploration to otherwise straightforward games, whereas in Doom 3 even when I wanted to explore there wasn't anything to look for.

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Doom 3 (as well as Quake 4) is ok-ish.

 

Half Life 2 was better than Doom 3 in almost every way tho (even in the horror department because of the "We don't go to RavenHolm" Level in HL2)

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The only things I think HL2 did better was the story, the characters and the puzzles.

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1 hour ago, ReaperAA said:

Doom 3 (as well as Quake 4) is ok-ish.

I thought, and still think quake 4 is quite terrible due to how abysmally slow it is.

 

41 minutes ago, Avoozl said:

The only things I think HL2 did better was the story, the characters and the puzzles.

I actually like the gunplay a lot more in hl2. more interesting combat scenarios to me as well.

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2 minutes ago, MrGlide said:

I thought, and still think quake 4 is quite terrible due to how abysmally slow it is.

 

Which is why i used the work ok-ish(which translates to average). Both Doom3 and Quake 4 are just run-of-the-mill games.

 

47 minutes ago, Avoozl said:

The only things I think HL2 did better was the story, the characters and the puzzles.

 

In addition to those, HL2 was also better at environment/level design, graphics, and combat (using environment to ur advantage)

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I was never too fond of Doom 3 either. It's repetitive and very slow-paced to begin with. There's too few enemies around and I never liked the fact that you had to have a special suit to remain outdoors and also that it never lasted long at all. A very average and quite disappointing game all in all to me. 

 

I really liked Doom 4 though and I think Doom Eternal seems promising as well.

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by the way, outdoor areas were nice. each time i moved out of corridors to see Mars surface, i wished the game to actually let me have some fun with guns there. but alas...

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10 hours ago, Agent6 said:

whereas in Doom 3 even when I wanted to explore there wasn't anything to look for.

These are mere the first things I came to recall after mentioning exploration.
In alphalabs2

Spoiler

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And even the BFG in hell.

Spoiler

pZ7304L.jpg

 

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23 hours ago, Phoby said:

It's a lot more visually hellish and the plot is more akin to what Doom should be in my opinion.

 

Visually more hellish? There aren't any new hell themed textures or assets and the new monsters are in the same slightly alien demon style like the other monsters. Actually the hell level in RoE is much weaker than the one in Doom 3, it mainly consists of lava caves.

 

The plot is just a spin-off from the main Doom 3 plot, which is much more fleshed out. Also the progression of level settings is better in the main game. RoE starts right away with the mysterious ancient Martian temples, which is anti-climatic.

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For the most part I found the gunplay weak compared to most other FPS games around the time.

Edited by Avoozl

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8 hours ago, Avoozl said:

The only things I think HL2 did better was the story, the characters and the puzzles.

 

I strongly think the combat was much better as well, odd since many would actually say that that's the weakest part of the game. Well, definitely not for me, and HL2DM only demonstrated that.

 

9 hours ago, ReaperAA said:

Doom 3 (as well as Quake 4) is ok-ish.

 

Half Life 2 was better than Doom 3 in almost every way tho (even in the horror department because of the "We don't go to RavenHolm" Level in HL2)

 

Well, Ravenholm (or Quarry Town as it was known originally during development :D ) surely had a hostile atmosphere filled with madness you could almost cut through with a knife, only amplified by Grigori's behavior, demented laughs and traps, but I see its point as being that mysterious and sad place no one was supposed to ever revisit, supported by the other characters' unwillingness to talk about it.

 

It wanted to make the players feel uneasy the whole time because they were never supposed to be there as opposed to trying to make them shit bricks at every step. Though it tried something to this effect right before entering the mines I guess, I dunno but the track that plays right after saying goodbye to Grigori is something you don't just get out of your head, like ever. Even after all these years it still manages to send shivers down the spine.

 

 

 

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Doom 3 would've been much better had they (iD) just gone the Doom 64/PSX Doom route and kept the action the same, weapons had better balance (I'm looking at you Pistol, Shotgun, and Chaingun >-<), those cheap, annoying hurt camera effects (aka the ones where Doomguy get's friccin seizures from a Cherub dealing 3 damage) were non-existent or toned down, and most beneficial one: had Trent Reznor managed to stay on in Sound Design.

Doom 3 I still love with every other doom game (and honestly) prefer it over DOOM (4/16)

Also another point, people who state the "iTs nOt lIkE DoOm & dOoM 2", those aren't arguments, actually criticise the game on it's actual objective quality & substance; not with rose tinted nostalgia-glasses lmao.

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28 minutes ago, XLightningStormL said:

Also another point, people who state the "iTs nOt lIkE DoOm & dOoM 2", those aren't arguments, actually criticise the game on it's actual objective quality & substance; not with rose tinted nostalgia-glasses lmao.

but this game is titled "DooM" after all. so it is fair to compare it with other franchise installments. if the game would titled "SPISPOPD" -- then ok, compairing it to first two dooms is quite pointless. but being 3rd installment... nope, that easy escape route for id is closed. ;-)

 

after all, they titled it "DooM" to avoid PR costs for brand new IP. i am pretty sure that "oh, it is next DooM!" made quite a number of sales. but doing so has inevitable consequences -- like being compared to previous parts.

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On 11/23/2018 at 5:41 PM, Agent6 said:

very linear levels with little exploration to do and variety

 

Not really true. For starters, you can find every weapon in secrets, some of which are quite well-hidden. Not to mention all the other goodies you can find in secrets. And by that I donțt mean stuff found in lockers or under catwalks. Definitely has more exploration than your average shooter.

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Doom 3 is a personal favorite.

 

I think Doom 3 is at its best when you treat it as a kind of art gallery. I totally disagree with the notion that there isn't any variety in the levels. Sure, the whole place is made of steel, but there's a good deal of variation in color, motifs, sounds, and set pieces that keep a good sense of progression throughout the game. I think you're really meant to spend a decent chunk of time soaking up the environments while outside of combat.

 

The combat is fun IMO, but clearly flawed. The scripted encounters do end up becoming predictable (though after a few playthroughs I've picked up on a few subtle sequences where they're obviously manipulating you, stuff I've never seen anybody mention, which were nice to notice). The problem is that most players were fine enough just relying on their reflexes and didn't really have any need to pay attention to anything. There's nothing at stake for the player, you barely take damage, you have an endless supply of ammo, and you can savescum. Teleporting monsters pose next to no threat since their entrance is so telegraphed and then they stand wide open for a few seconds, I started waiting for them before shooting just to keep things interesting.

 

The story is a standard B-level horror plot that doesn't do much beyond serving its purpose, which feels appropriate. The PDA logs were a cool way of peeking into the thoughts and attitudes of the people working at the facility, and the spam emails and the martianbuddy website were a fun gag at the time.

 

As a whole package I really like the game and I like the fact that id was still only about 20 to 30 people when they made it. It shows how much is possible with a relatively small team. I don't find it mediocre at all.

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