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haruko haruhara

how come the deathmatch wads always have the best map design an the best midis why

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well i have been finding wads on wad archive that are death match wads some up to 32 to 33 like the 32in24 wads an so much more i don.t  know why the singleplayer wads can.t get that much effort like the death match wads can :(

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Well, because you only saw few dm sets. There are so many bad or meh dm maps in archives. And single player maps these days get a lot of effort to be made. I believe, that doom multiplayer related people could say more about this. 

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I’m surprised to hear this, I lament the lack of new DM turf and in contrast am constantly seeing new SP stuff being released. The only DM release I can think of for many months now is pyrrhic 2. In the 90s it seems like DM / DM mapping was all the rage but nowadays it’s lucky to even come across a new Doomer interested in mapping for DM. (The greatest game mode and believe me, I know game modes. Nobody loves deathmatch more than me. It’s yuge. Tremendous in fact.)

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I lament the lack of new DM turf

 

A big part of that is due to singleplayer doom being about exploring new places and taking in the sights in addition to fighting monsters. DM is all technical and eventually if you avoid altering the fundamentals you're gonna start rehasing the same concepts over and over. A change of scenery matters little in PVP if your maps all play the same.

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Excuse me, what the fuck?

 

BTSX? Ancient Aliens? Sunlust? Valiant? Going Down? That's only a tiny list, and that's only relatively modern vanilla/Boom-compatible megawads, not to mention projects for ports like ZDoom. Have you heard these soundtracks? Many of these projects have entirely original soundtracks, from scratch. You're telling me Jimmy, Viscra Maelstrom, Xaser, stewboy, and Esselfortium (to name a few) make shitty midis? You must have never played a megawad in your life if you've reached this conclusion.

 

Singleplayer wads have no effort? Have you ever tried to map? I've been trying for five years and can't do jack shit. Mapping takes so much time, effort and skill, and everyone here does it for free. No one is being paid, there's hours, days, months, years being poured into these projects, and it shows, because they're really damn good! To imply that there's almost no singleplayer wads that have equal effort put into them as the 32in24 wads (not even 24 hours worth of effort? What?) is so completely wrong and utterly disrespectful to the community. 

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6 minutes ago, TheMightyHeracross said:

Excuse me, what the fuck?

 

BTSX? Ancient Aliens? Sunlust? Valiant? Going Down? That's only a tiny list, and that's only relatively modern vanilla/Boom-compatible megawads, not to mention projects for ports like ZDoom. Have you heard these soundtracks? Many of these projects have entirely original soundtracks, from scratch. You're telling me Jimmy, Viscra Maelstrom, Xaser, stewboy, and Esselfortium (to name a few) make shitty midis? You must have never played a megawad in your life if you've reached this conclusion.

 

Singleplayer wads have no effort? Have you ever tried to map? I've been trying for five years and can't do jack shit. Mapping takes so much time, effort and skill, and everyone here does it for free. No one is being paid, there's hours, days, months, years being poured into these projects, and it shows, because they're really damn good! To imply that there's almost no singleplayer wads that have equal effort put into them as the 32in24 wads (not even 24 hours worth of effort? What?) is so completely wrong and utterly disrespectful to the community. 

 

someone spike your coffee this morning? i don't think he took a personal jab at you

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Yes I played a megawad before I am not a dumb shit I I have so many wads that I can.t count An they are almost all megawads the only I wanted to know is there is a 32in24 wad that starts the first map with undertale midi an I thought this sounds awesome why can.t  people put that midi in a singleplayer wad An yes I know what btsx is an sunlust An going down an valiant  an so many more An please don.t think I am a  idiot I am not ok :)

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I never called you an idiot. I said that your implication that singleplayer wads don't "get as much effort" as a series of DM wads literally made in 24 hours each was both objectively incorrect and very offensive to many of the people here who have spent countless months, if not years, making wads. It doesn't have to be a personal jab at me for me to find that infinitely frustrating, offensive, and wrong.


I haven't heard Undertale music in any wad before but that doesn't mean they don't have good music choice. Like I said, there are so many talented composers in this community who write amazing original track for wads all the time. Even when this is not the case mappers generally make very nice music choices and it's a bit silly to say that singleplayer maps don't have good music choice merely on that one DM map having a song you like.

Edited by TheMightyHeracross

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1 hour ago, Doomkid said:

I’m surprised to hear this, I lament the lack of new DM turf and in contrast am constantly seeing new SP stuff being released. The only DM release I can think of for many months now is pyrrhic 2. In the 90s it seems like DM / DM mapping was all the rage but nowadays it’s lucky to even come across a new Doomer interested in mapping for DM. (The greatest game mode and believe me, I know game modes. Nobody loves deathmatch more than me. It’s yuge. Tremendous in fact.)

 

I make maps that support all modes of play, but I only ever seem to get feedback about the SP experience, even when I explicitly ask for MP feedback.

 

If that's an indicative experience of how much feedback DM maps get, that may be a contributing factor to the lack of new material being released.

 

(Also, there's still 24 hours left to give DM feedback on Doom 404.  Just sayin'.)

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Your english is very broken

Anyways, I personally find that there are too many deathmatch wads with good mapping than singleplayer ones with good mapping too. not sure why

thonk.jpg

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19 hours ago, Capellan said:

 

I make maps that support all modes of play, but I only ever seem to get feedback about the SP experience, even when I explicitly ask for MP feedback.

 

If that's an indicative experience of how much feedback DM maps get, that may be a contributing factor to the lack of new material being released.

 

(Also, there's still 24 hours left to give DM feedback on Doom 404.  Just sayin'.)

Getting one guy to play your map is easy, getting two people to play your map at same time is much harder. Now add in the need to know how to set up a multiplayer server, small size of dm community and the fact that dm people like to play the maps they already know, it's hardly a surprise that people just don't care. It certainly doesn't help that Doom multiplayer bots even today seem primitive compared to offerings of other idshooters.

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It's counterproductive to make DM arenas in singleplayer maps. To make a dent in the establishment you need to 100% focus on your DM play and provide something that stands out in addition to having good fundamentals. I'd advise anyone who wants to make DM maps to do so seperately from Singleplayer projects.

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Absolutely what Marcaek said. Nobody wants to play your single player map with dm starts shoehorned in - that's just the reality of the situation. 

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40 minutes ago, Ralphis said:

Nobody wants to play your single player map with dm starts shoehorned in

Maybe, but I still think that's an interesting premise for a 32in24; Build maps that can be played in both deathmatch and singleplayer/co-op.

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4 hours ago, Ralphis said:

Absolutely what Marcaek said. Nobody wants to play your single player map with dm starts shoehorned in - that's just the reality of the situation. 

 

I give DM play considerably more thought than just shoehorning in some starts, but since the effort to support that playstyle is clearly wasted, I shall stop bothering in future.

 

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If you play 10 hours the same map with the same song, you will most likely to start likeing the song over time without really noticing it. Just like with any song that gets repeated over in the radio.

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I wouldn't echo the same concerns as OP necessarily, but I have definitely noticed a lot of cool DM/CTF maps with nothing quite like them in the singleplayer realm. there are a lot more cases in the other direction no doubt, though. but 32in24 has a ton of cool maps that I would love to see expanded into singleplayer, and I am really fond of old ctf compilations like stctf/uctf, zdctfmp, etc. and would love to see singleplayer analogues of much of the maps in those sets, with the same music and everything. I would absolutely love to play singleplayer versions of all the Exl and Izm maps from stctf

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That'd be fun to see Tango: singleplayer maps in the style of the less fortunate CTF and DM maps out there. I'd like to see something akin to greenwar 2's resource used in a SP set myself.

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I was gonna mention that SP conversions from (originally) DM maps might be the better way to go (as opposed to SP->DM) for any attempts to capture both in one map/wad, but looks like Tango's thinking the same thing ;D

 

About a year ago I made a heretic dm map and converted it to SP. Not gonna say the DM was the best, as I have little experience in building DM maps, but inserting SP switches and events into it at the end was really easy and the SP aspect of it turned out pretty well.

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15 hours ago, Marcaek said:

That'd be fun to see Tango: singleplayer maps in the style of the less fortunate CTF and DM maps out there. I'd like to see something akin to greenwar 2's resource used in a SP set myself.

 

yes! greenwar 2 is one I would love to see in singleplayer. there are a lot of great looking maps in that set in both the mayan/gothic theme and grungy techbase theme, and I would love to play a full collection of maps like that in singleplayer. UDM2, UDM3 and UDMX are other sets that come to mind when I think of maps I would most like to see converted, though I'm not sure those qualify as "less fortunate." Dynamite DM would be sweet too, if only for the Villa map whose charm I think is quite unique

Edited by Tango

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