Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
MajorMan

hello i would like to make doom maps and i need some advice

Recommended Posts

i would like to be a doom map maker im using the doom map maker doom builder 2 and id like it if someone could offer me advice to make high quality maps people will enjoy mechanically speaking i know i need to make the maps but i need advice and help on how to make them function properly ok?

Share this post


Link to post

Play good wads and try to do what they do. Open them in the Doom Builder if you have any questions on how they do specific tricks. I'd recommend you'd start out Boom: Doom 2 (Doom Format) or Doom: Doom 2 (Doom Format) as they are easier to use and learn.

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Juza said:

Play good wads and try to do what they do. Open them in the Doom Builder if you have any questions on how they do specific tricks.

This is a great place to start, as it will give you the specific mechanics behind the various mapping techniques. So,

  • Examine other's maps in your map editor.
  • Check out the Doom Editing forum on this site for detailed instructions on basic and advanced techniques.
  • Browse through the Doom Wiki for a wealth of knowledge on all things Doom.
  • Search the Doomworld forums for variations on the phrases "good maps", "fun levels", "map editing", etc. Frequently, there are topics about good level design.
  • Find as many mapping guides as you can - each one has something to offer. Learn how and where to search for these guides.

But, most important of all:

  • Don't build high-quality maps. Build any ol' thing that's playable. Then build another. And another. Most people's first few maps really suck. That's ok - don't get discouraged. First crawl, then walk, then run. You first have to learn the editor - keyboard shortcuts, using the mouse buttons, etc. Then, you'll pick up on various line and sector tricks. Making a map look and play well comes after learning the techniques.

Welcome to the forums, and best of luck making maps! If you get stuck, there are lots of great mappers here who are willing and able to steer you in the right direction.

 

Share this post


Link to post

It'll get easy for you as you make maps, I've got at least twenty maps that I made for the singular purpose of learning things such as doors, lifts, poly objects, 3d floors ,ect....

That was my method, I'm still novice, but this was how I learned enough to tackle some of the more advanced mapping stuff.
Just figure out a process to mapping that suits your tastes and pace yourself.

And avoid the "UDMF" format for now, it's got a lot of advanced features that are nice to have, but try to figure out the basics first with just "Doom" format

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, wolfmcbeard said:

And avoid the "UDMF" format for now, it's got a lot of advanced features that are nice to have, but try to figure out the basics first with just "Doom" format

Now they tell me...

Share this post


Link to post

I'd say, start off making 1-map wads. Once that becomes simple, try adding 1-2 custom textures in the map. Then maybe a custom animated texture or a new enemy or a new gun. Just slowly expand outwards. And finally, just remember this: If you feel like you're producing stuff that's too low quality and when you see people do amazing things in the editor, don't be discouraged! They may have had years or even a decade or two of practice with DooM! Stick with it and soon enough you'll go from box rooms with 1 demon and a super shotgun to a full blown *insert map amount here* semi/full megawads.

Share this post


Link to post
On 11/30/2018 at 7:51 AM, MajorMan said:

i would like to be a doom map maker im using the doom map maker doom builder 2 and id like it if someone could offer me advice to make high quality maps people will enjoy mechanically speaking i know i need to make the maps but i need advice and help on how to make them function properly ok?

 

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/53-editing-tutorials/

https://forum.zdoom.org/viewforum.php?f=39&sid=968305db5659f74b90f26652c560a350

https://zdoom.org/wiki/Tutorials

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, guitardz said:

Now they tell me...

 

I'm as deep into UDMF mapping as they come, and I would also agree to never start with it. It's far too overwhelming.

 

Personally I wouldn't even start with GZDoomBuilder. I'd start with DB2 (or DBX) and target limit-removing Doom 2 in Doom format. It is so important to get your head around the fundamentals of the engine before jumping into the extended functionality of full-fat GZDoom in UDMF format.

Share this post


Link to post
12 hours ago, wolfmcbeard said:

.......
And avoid the "UDMF" format for now, it's got a lot of advanced features that are nice to have, but try to figure out the basics first with just "Doom" format

 

Worst advice I've seen in a while.

 

While the basic architectural features of an editor are the same in any layout, starting out by limiting oneself to editing in DOOM format simply means that one has to relearn all specific features for GZDoom (Eternity, EDGE, etc.).

 

To learn what is possible in various mapping formats read all available tutorials (sse above) and WIKIs

https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Doom

https://zdoom.org/wiki/Main_Page

https://3dfxdev.net/edgewiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

http://eternity.youfailit.net/wiki/Main_Page

 

http://slade.mancubus.net/index.php?page=wiki

For features of GZDoom Builder - Bugfix see the Refmanual which comes with the editor

Share this post


Link to post
17 minutes ago, Kappes Buur said:

Worst advice I've seen in a while.

 

While the basic architectural features of an editor are the same in any layout, starting out by limiting oneself to editing in DOOM format simply means that one has to relearn all specific features for GZDoom (Eternity, EDGE, etc.).

 

I couldn't disagree more! It'd be like a kid saying they wanted to draw something, and instead of handing them paper and a pen you give them Photoshop. It'd be completely overwhelming. 

 

For complete newbies I'd say it's more important for them to understand the basics like sectors, linedefs and things in a simple, uncluttered and easy to digest format. That's why I'd also suggest not starting with GZDB, simply because there are so many buttons and toolbars it can be really offputting when you're just trying to understand what a sidedef is.

 

Full UDMF mapping doesn't require you to "relearn" anything as it doesn't change any fundamentals about mapping, it merely adds a thousand extra features. Features that just cloud the fundamentals when you don't understand what the fundamentals even are. I totally get where you're coming from if the workflow in UDMF was different to vanilla, but it isn't, it's just more advanced.

 

love UDMF, Elementalism is unsurprisingly entirely made in it, but I am so glad I started mapping a couple of years ago with basic limit-removing Doom. It means I could naturally graduate to UDMF over time as I got better and more advanced with the options available. 

Edited by Bauul

Share this post


Link to post

Personally I'd advise starting with GZDB to familiarise yourself with the tool but start with a simple format (ie not UDMF). I wouldn't want to sink time into a different editor when you are going to inevitably end up with GZDB but that's just me.

 

UDMF definitely has a steep learning curve. I've been using it for 10 months now and I still learn new stuff pretty much every week. Although there's something to be said for a good ol' fashioned baptism of fire :P

Share this post


Link to post
43 minutes ago, Bridgeburner56 said:

.....

UDMF definitely has a steep learning curve. I've been using it for 10 months now and I still learn new stuff pretty much every week. Although there's something to be said for a good ol' fashioned baptism of fire :P


Starting out with UDMF is no different than starting out with vanilla Doom format. In both cases it is necassary to do some learning, except that Doom format offers a very limited feature set completely different from, for example, Doom in Hexen format or UDMF. While it appears that the advanced ports are more difficult to learn that is not true at all. One does not start out by creating a map with all features offered by the advanced port, that process is a gradual one. Start out with a simple layout and progress from there.

 

As I mentioned before, mapping for Doom format to begin with only limits the features available for the map creator, having to relearn a completely different feature set when progressing to more elaborate map constructions later on with other ports. However, luckily modern editors like DB2, GZDB, GZDBBF and Slade3 help a lot in that respect. Inevitably one winds up mapping for an advanced port. Who does not want to incorporate a 3D floor in a map, which is not possible in DOOM format.

 

I would recommend to play maps in various ports and decide which one is the preferred one and create maps for that port. If that is vanilla DOOM, that it be then. If it is GZDoom, then there are countless tutorials, both in text and video formats. If it is Eternity, 3DGE, etc  then this is more difficult as there are not too many tutorials for those ports.

 

Ultimately, it is up to the beginning mapper to figure out which way to turn.

Help is always available just for the asking.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Bauul said:

.....

Full UDMF mapping doesn't require you to "relearn" anything as it doesn't change any fundamentals about mapping, it merely adds a thousand extra features. Features that just cloud the fundamentals when you don't understand what the fundamentals even are. I totally get where you're coming from if the workflow in UDMF was different to vanilla, but it isn't, it's just more advanced.

.....

 

 

In your opinion there is nothing different from, for example, DOOM linedefs 

 

dKoIT5O.png

 

to linedef types in Doom in Hexen or UDMF

 

PK6qllU.png

 

How many times has someone asked where such and such feature is in DOOM format only to be told to use Doom in Hexen or UDMF.

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, Juza said:

Just because he wants to play some meme wad?

It's a standard Ken M format troll, ask a seemingly normal question, wait for a couple of normal replies, then hit them with the punchline comment and disappear.  The only thing that makes me think it might not actually be a troll is that he hasn't come back to deliver a punchline comment on this post yet.

 

As for all the commotion over where to start out in mapping.  Yeah, UDMF is probably not the best place, it's overly complex and there is a ton to take on.  I conciously made the decision to start there for the features, and that's okay, but I do have a lot of experience with build engine editing from years ago, I just wanted the features.

Share this post


Link to post

I had a hard time with UDMF at first, I had an easier experience in gzbd (was the first thing I found to be honest) using some of the other formats, the advanced stuff seemed easier to pull off in UDMF, so I say it out of personal experience and someone who's only other experience with screwing around with a game at at all was FalloutNV's geck.

Share this post


Link to post

For me it was the opposite: Started out with UDMF because I really liked the removal of limitations of the oldengine. Sure there is a lot of stuff to discover and figure out but as KappesBuur said, you don't cram every single feature into your first map anyway. Most people will focus on actually learning the basics first. That's what I did at least.

Share this post


Link to post
On 12/1/2018 at 1:21 AM, guitardz said:

I'm retty sure this guy is a troll, guys...

 

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/post/1940325

 

Yeah, the complete lack of capitalization and punctuation screams "troll" to me, although why someone would troll here instead of a community for a more recent game with a larger membership is strange.

Share this post


Link to post
23 hours ago, Bauul said:

Personally I wouldn't even start with GZDoomBuilder. I'd start with DB2 (or DBX) and target limit-removing Doom 2 in Doom format. It is so important to get your head around the fundamentals of the engine before jumping into the extended functionality of full-fat GZDoom in UDMF format.

I found gzdoom builder easier to understand when I started mapping. Mostly of its drawing tools, which don't require use right mouse click and keep it to draw sectors or any wanted shape unlike in db2 or dbx. Also, it has guidelines to help if you have problems with drawing, but only on normal drawing mode. 

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×