My first WAD

[Austinado]

SCOURGE

doom2

 

Hello, this is my very first Wad, very simple, amateur-ish. 12 Levels where DoomGuy main objective is to end each level until the end. After the 12 level, the game ends. There is some puzzle type levels, NO JUMPING and NO CROUCHING type of game. Its meant to be played in HURT ME PLENTY difficulty. Only after i have done the upoad, i have noticed that i left another "start player" in the middle of the first level at time of editing...very sorry for that.

I can handle the critics, but i would like to know what you think about it. I have tested all the levels...there are some secrets...and by the way for you to end the last level you must find a secret. I hope you have fun...please tell me about it when you guys can.

 

https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/s-u/scourge

 

 

[Misty]

Congrats for your first release! Not sure what to say about maps, because they are clearly first mapping tries, so I'm better to tell some general tips, if you want improve forward. 

1. Study your favourite mapsets to learn about how they applied texture consistency, height difference and created convincing gameplay. 
2. Do more single map releases, they are easier to make and helps you to improve your skills and get criticism faster.  
3. Hold on with idgames release, it's better to create thread and keep your map on google drive or dropbox, if wad will need some bugfixing or changes.
4. Depending on what format you're going to work, you will need one or two additional ports for testing. For example, if you do vanilla maps, you should get chocolate doom and prboom+ for more testing and see if things are working as intended. 

[DynamiteKaitorn]

So, this may come across as harsh but, I've got to mention a good few things when it comes to level design:

 

1 - Keep an eye on Mis-alligned flats/wall textures. This can quickly show how well/poor your maps look

 

2 - Utilising some pretty terrible texture choices. (Oh jeez where to begin) Firstly, NEVER use switches as a wall texture. It never looks good. 2: You don't need to have a huge wall of the gargoyle face dripping blood into lava (which makes little sense) or using the MARBFACE1 (or whatever the baron's face number was) across 1 linedef. Don't be scared to add more detail.  DORTRAK1 is the best texture to use as the sides of a door instead of the yellow key bar texture.

 

3: Overly long hallways. DooM1 did have some very long hallways and they were ugly. Try not to repeat ID's mistake.

 

4: Why was the lava sections so forced when it came to damage and you either didn't give a rad suit or a load of stimpaks/medikits to help offset it's damage?

 

5: Also on health, the first level practically lacks ANY HP what-so ever.

 

This small list was only a fraction of the issues I had with your first WAD. Personally, stick at WAD making but be mindful that not every player can play your WAD the same way or can handle certain difficulties.

 

 

3/10

[Nine Inch Heels]

Alright.... pretty weird maps, some were relatively fun. After pistol starting maps 01 through 04 it became evident that you assume people play these maps continuous, because the maps start providing ammo for weapons which are usually not given out, except in previous maps. And that's the reason map02 buries players in shotgun shells right at the start without giving out a shotgun or an SSG straight away. If you intend for people to play these without pistol starting ever, then that is something that would have been good to write down in the op, because it is basically considered par for the course to support pistol starting in maps since that's the way id themselves did it. Speaking of things that belong in the op: Mapping format used, source ports tested with, just to be safe.

 

By the way I think in map02 there is a falsely(?) placed player start in the playable area of the map.

 

I liked some ideas you worked into these maps, a little bit of "the chasm" in map02 for example was pretty fun, also enjoyed some of the fights in later maps, so gameplay isn't all as dreadful as the first map may suggest, because seriously map01 is a dreadful corridor fest with nothing else on the menu. As soon as map03 it feels like we're talking about something that slightly resembles thought through maps, rather than pure experiments in mapping, and that was also the point where my interest in what's next to come came alive a bit. Sadly by the time I reached map 07 it also died down to one of the most boring and grindy corridor fests I've seen in a long time.

Some oversights in mapping show throughout: I don't remember if it was map03 or not, but I jumped on a platform to grab a chaingun from a dead monster, and it turned out that platform was hurt floor just like the surrounding area, and oversights carry on through other maps in the form of keylocked doors that aren't "marked" visually, unnecessarily slow raising lifts, or lack of indication whether or not a switch results in an exit or in something else (or if it is even a switch to begin with). Speaking of switches, there were several instances where a switch did something in an area relatively far away, or simply out of sight, so it might be worth giving either visual clues where to go next, or in some cases setting up a teleport to bring players to where the switch changed something.

 

Visually, I'm not one to turn down sets that seem strangely textured, especially not when it's pretty obvious that these choices were (sort of) deliberate, but one thing I find slightly annoying is inconsistency in texture use: Something that was a lift or a switch in one map does nothing in the next map, etc... I wouldn't mind that if the maps were entirely "unrelated", but since the continuous play-notion is so strong I kinda expected that consistency to be there at least.

 

Anyway, some interesting stuff, but unfortunately also a lot of one-dimensional and extremely slow paced stuff with very little spice to it: Shotgunning HKs and Barons in corridors like that just fundamentally sucks:

Edited December 8, 2018 by Nine Inch Heels

[riderr3]

I only can say that layouts is not so bad, but it can be much better with proper texturing and detailing. Use textures SUPPORT2/SUPPORT3 (24 units) and WOOD8 (32 units) to distinguish between areas with different heights and lighting.
 
Just open any official Doom/Doom2 maps and take a look which types of textures is used depending on map layouts.

Also it's better first upload wads to file storage somewhere, rather dropping to IDgames ahead of time.

[Austinado]

On 12/8/2018 at 11:45 AM, Misty said:

Congrats for your first release! Not sure what to say about maps, because they are clearly first mapping tries, so I'm better to tell some general tips, if you want improve forward. 

1. Study your favourite mapsets to learn about how they applied texture consistency, height difference and created convincing gameplay. 
2. Do more single map releases, they are easier to make and helps you to improve your skills and get criticism faster.  
3. Hold on with idgames release, it's better to create thread and keep your map on google drive or dropbox, if wad will need some bugfixing or changes.
4. Depending on what format you're going to work, you will need one or two additional ports for testing. For example, if you do vanilla maps, you should get chocolate doom and prboom+ for more testing and see if things are working as intended. 

Thanks, i should test it more! I still dont know very much about uploading here...

[Austinado]

On 12/8/2018 at 12:24 PM, DynamiteKaitorn said:

So, this may come across as harsh but, I've got to mention a good few things when it comes to level design:

 

1 - Keep an eye on Mis-alligned flats/wall textures. This can quickly show how well/poor your maps look

 

2 - Utilising some pretty terrible texture choices. (Oh jeez where to begin) Firstly, NEVER use switches as a wall texture. It never looks good. 2: You don't need to have a huge wall of the gargoyle face dripping blood into lava (which makes little sense) or using the MARBFACE1 (or whatever the baron's face number was) across 1 linedef. Don't be scared to add more detail.  DORTRAK1 is the best texture to use as the sides of a door instead of the yellow key bar texture.

 

3: Overly long hallways. DooM1 did have some very long hallways and they were ugly. Try not to repeat ID's mistake.

 

4: Why was the lava sections so forced when it came to damage and you either didn't give a rad suit or a load of stimpaks/medikits to help offset it's damage?

 

5: Also on health, the first level practically lacks ANY HP what-so ever.

 

This small list was only a fraction of the issues I had with your first WAD. Personally, stick at WAD making but be mindful that not every player can play your WAD the same way or can handle certain difficulties.

 

 

3/10

Thanks ;)

I thought it was a good thought the gargoiles dropping "lava" instead of blood, that was the purpose. But..got it. Long hallways...got it.

[Austinado]

On 12/8/2018 at 3:04 PM, riderr3 said:

I only can say that layouts is not so bad, but it can be much better with proper texturing and detailing. Use textures SUPPORT2/SUPPORT3 (24 units) and WOOD8 (32 units) to distinguish between areas with different heights and lighting.
 
Just open any official Doom/Doom2 maps and take a look which types of textures is used depending on map layouts.

Also it's better first upload wads to file storage somewhere, rather dropping to IDgames ahead of time.

Thanks for the advises ;)

[Austinado]

On 12/8/2018 at 1:37 PM, Nine Inch Heels said:

Alright.... pretty weird maps, some were relatively fun. After pistol starting maps 01 through 04 it became evident that you assume people play these maps continuous, because the maps start providing ammo for weapons which are usually not given out, except in previous maps. And that's the reason map02 buries players in shotgun shells right at the start without giving out a shotgun or an SSG straight away. If you intend for people to play these without pistol starting ever, then that is something that would have been good to write down in the op, because it is basically considered par for the course to support pistol starting in maps since that's the way id themselves did it. Speaking of things that belong in the op: Mapping format used, source ports tested with, just to be safe.

 

By the way I think in map02 there is a falsely(?) placed player start in the playable area of the map.

 

I liked some ideas you worked into these maps, a little bit of "the chasm" in map02 for example was pretty fun, also enjoyed some of the fights in later maps, so gameplay isn't all as dreadful as the first map may suggest, because seriously map01 is a dreadful corridor fest with nothing else on the menu. As soon as map03 it feels like we're talking about something that slightly resembles thought through maps, rather than pure experiments in mapping, and that was also the point where my interest in what's next to come came alive a bit. Sadly by the time I reached map 07 it also died down to one of the most boring and grindy corridor fests I've seen in a long time.

Some oversights in mapping show throughout: I don't remember if it was map03 or not, but I jumped on a platform to grab a chaingun from a dead monster, and it turned out that platform was hurt floor just like the surrounding area, and oversights carry on through other maps in the form of keylocked doors that aren't "marked" visually, unnecessarily slow raising lifts, or lack of indication whether or not a switch results in an exit or in something else (or if it is even a switch to begin with). Speaking of switches, there were several instances where a switch did something in an area relatively far away, or simply out of sight, so it might be worth giving either visual clues where to go next, or in some cases setting up a teleport to bring players to where the switch changed something.

 

Visually, I'm not one to turn down sets that seem strangely textured, especially not when it's pretty obvious that these choices were (sort of) deliberate, but one thing I find slightly annoying is inconsistency in texture use: Something that was a lift or a switch in one map does nothing in the next map, etc... I wouldn't mind that if the maps were entirely "unrelated", but since the continuous play-notion is so strong I kinda expected that consistency to be there at least.

 

Anyway, some interesting stuff, but unfortunately also a lot of one-dimensional and extremely slow paced stuff with very little spice to it: Shotgunning HKs and Barons in corridors like that just fundamentally sucks:

Thanks ;)

Yes...alot of mistakes. I sure need to test more source ports. I must say that im very recent in this type of thing, and for sure i should had "studied" more about it. I must confess, i was too much excited to try it, with a few levels, in this case 12...Im starting a new wad...trying to be more carefull about.."everything". Thanks for all the advices.

[Suitepee]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/350512581

 

(my playtesting of your wad starts just after the hour mark, after doing IronEagle #3 and Doom_RO's map)

 

An interesting mapset overall. It started off reminding me of 90's-style mapping and......kind of remained as such, but I sensed the quality of the level design increasing as the maps wore on. Some good ideas in there, marred by wonky texture/prop usage and weak execution. In some ways, I saw a bit of joe_ilya in his earlier mapping days within this wad, and I sense some potential from @Austinado as well, as did some of the Twitch chat.

 

Strive to improve, and keep on making things.

[Phobus]

Hey @Austinado - as you played my Volume 1, I figured I'd play yours! I got through it all ok, with an abundance of ammo playing UV continuous. I won't give too much critique, as you've obviously moved on and made newer things, which I'll get round to looking at in time! The main takeaway for me is that you've done some good experimentation and, over time, have clearly made steps in the right direction. Plenty of moving parts, height variation was becoming more and more of a thing, texturing was slowly becoming coherent and the errors were... Well, they were still there! Particularly missing lower textures after floors had moved.

 

I'm afraid I don't really do recording, so I've got nothing for you but (encouraging) words. The last map in particular had an impressive scale and some good complexity. I'm keen to see where you go.

 

If you want to be amused, my first ever released WAD was also called Scourge!

[Austinado]

@Phobus

 

Man, i have to tell how honoured i am for you to play my first WAD with the same name that yours was. Yeah, that was my beggining with alot of expectations, greed and mistakes :D

The name SCOURGE...i tried to find something different so i could start...and that was it...from there i have done SCOURGE II / III / IV and i want to close it with SCOURGE V - CATHARSIS THE FINAL EPISODE. Of course ill take my time...and i have no prevision when im gonna start it and finnish it

.

Im sorry about the name...not intended to copy or something like so. I already downloaded your first WAD SCOURGE...it will be my pleasure to play it and record it! 

[Phobus]

No worries about the name Scourge - a single word like that, I'm sure I wasn't the first to use it for a Doom WAD! Good ambition with the megaWAD - I think you've shown you've got map finishing credentials. Hopefully you can take your time and polish things up a little so that the release goes well!