SIGIL v1.21 - New Romero megawad [released!]

[SleepingVillage]

I for one will happily take a full episode from one of the creators of the game which this community owes it's whole existence to... for free. Not sure what some are feeling pissy about with this.

[Mordeth]

10 hours ago, hardcore_gamer said:

What makes these levels special other than the fact Romero made them? There are arguably even better level designers already in the Doom community.

 

It's like making abstract art. Take Mondriaan's "composition 2in red, blue, yellow" for example. it's famous, yet you can copy it easily. But it's coming up with the composition in the first place that's the hard part.

[Maes]

It will obviously be the long-awaited SPISPOPD.

 

 

8 hours ago, EtherBot said:

Sorry, am I just confused, or are they taking pre-orders for a thing they haven't even bothered announcing yet? Is John Romero's name the only thing spenders have to go on here? Sounds kinda scummy to me.

 

Oh common, what's the worst that could happen?

 

 

[Walter confetti]

This is a awesome news, but... There's something that doesn't make me hyped...

From what i've seen in the trailer looks like E1M8b in hell, that is not a awful thing mind you, but doesn't make me scream in anticipation.

 

However I still waiting for February for playing this thing and making my idea...

 

And yes, i've expecting something new for this new Romero work, at least on episode style, not inferno 2.0

[Beginner]

Quote

Fanboy-ish? Naw, that's just inappropriate right there. I can't imagine getting pushed into a state where I would feel like being that callous.

Judging by your reply "dicksucking" would be a more fitting term.

Anyway, the reaction on par with "How dare you not rate this megawad "5 stars, 10\10, I was Romero's bitch for twenty five years!" based solely on Romero name-brand attached to it?" looks pretty silly to me.

[A Nobody]

Well I'm glad Romero still cares about the old Doom.

[DooM_RO]

Well look at it from another perspective. Romero is making a new game besides the Sigil expansion. He can't just rely on his name alone for it to be popular. In fact, that would be quite arrogant. I mean let's face it, this is a warm-up for his next game but it is also an indication of how much effort he's willing to put in a project. I won't accept anything less than the best he can offer. I don't care that he made the best game of all time 25 years ago because that was 25 years ago. The way I see it he has to prove himself all over again. I don't care that it's free, I expect better from him. I'm not saying it won't be good, I'm just saying it won't be good enough, it won't be Cacoward material, it'll be just another Doom 1 episode. 

[Nancsi]

Boohoo, more than 30 people will play a Doom mapset, which is not my favourite out of place funky colored 3000 enemy slaughterwad, boohoo.

[leodoom85]

grabs popcorn...

Keep going folks...I'll wait and play the wad no matter how bad or good it is and THEN formulate an opinion.

[DooM_RO]

24 minutes ago, leodoom85 said:

grabs popcorn...

Keep going folks...I'll wait and play the wad no matter how bad or good it is and THEN formulate an opinion.

 

I'll play it too, I'll most likely even enjoy it, it's just that I expected more, especially with all the fanfare Romero seems to be generating around it. I mean, an official site, logo, merchandise?

[DooM_RO]

And before you start, the fact that it's free is irrelevant because it has official merchandise. It's clearly more than just another WAD or at least that's how he seems to see it.

[leodoom85]

Dude.....hype is bad for your mind if you expect much. It's that simple.

In fact, watching that wad is different than playing it and I haven't saw anything related to those maps aka avoid "spoilers". I prefer to see it by myself from the release day.

[Solarn]

God, waiting for this is going to be torture. From the video, it seems that John has already fully assimilated modern mapping practices into his style, which wasn't the case in his E1M4 and E1M8 replacements, and it makes me want to play these maps so much.

[Noiser]

7 hours ago, kb1 said:

"Boo hoo :( Romero's new levels are not the absolute best levels from the list of 100,000 levels I've seen in 25 years - I'm disappointed..."

 

He and his team made the game. It was Romero and his team's insights that brought everything that makes the game what it is, even today.

It's like saying Black Sabbath sucks 'cause there's faster guitarists out there now.

 

+1

 

5 hours ago, DooM_RO said:

Well look at it from another perspective. Romero is making a new game besides the Sigil expansion. He can't just rely on his name alone for it to be popular.

 

Yes, he can. It's like when people complains that Kraftwerk doesn't release new material anymore. They created a gigantic legacy already. If they don't want to, they don't need to do anything else. It's funny because I think it's far more arrogant when people don't recognize that.

And hey, that's not even the case. The level design looks very promising AFAIK, it's not like he is not caring about quality. If there is a chance of something as good as E1M8B, I can't see why it can't be nominated for a Cacoward as well. A lot of award-winning maps doesn't relies on new resources, but gameplay and pure level design skills.

Edited December 11, 2018 by Noiser

[leodoom85]

17 minutes ago, Solarn said:

God, waiting for this is going to be torture

Nah man....time flies faster without noticing and you know that.

[SOSU]

14 hours ago, hardcore_gamer said:

1.lmao Romero is getting roasted.

 

2.Well to be honest it does seem kinda dumb that this is considered news seeing as the new episode is just a new level pack and nothing else. I mean there are like 5 million Doom mods/level packs already. What makes these levels special other than the fact Romero made them? 

3.There are arguably even better level designers already in the Doom community.

 

1.That's not a roast

2.The thing is that those maps he will be releasing are better than 99% of those wads

3.What's wrong with having more mappers make more good maps?Just because Skillsaw makes better maps than me does that mean that i should quit mapping?

 

Dude seriously you seem to be doing this for years now...try to read what you wrote before you post it but before than try to say it out loud but before that start thinking about it real hard :V

 

@kmxexii I hope you review it as soon as possible!I really like your ONEMANDOOM reviews :)

[Nine Inch Heels]

33 minutes ago, Nancsi said:

Boohoo, more than 30 people will play a Doom mapset, which is not my favourite out of place funky colored 3000 enemy slaughterwad, boohoo.

Except nobody has a problem with others having fun. It seems you guys have a much larger issue with people who don't join in for the circlejerking because their taste is different from yours, or they simply have some reservations of their own.

 

I can accept that Cynical likes the iWADs (or hell revealed) more than I do and let him do his thing, but I cannot accept motherfuckers telling others that they're sad shit, and their lifes must be miserable, just because they have a different taste; that's an easy 11 on a 10 point scale of asshattery. I've been told to have a dick-ish attitude at times, but fuck me I never told people their lives were a pile of crap or anything along those lines.

 

It turns out some people aren't born with your sense of nostalgia, dude I was a toddler when doom came out, I didn't grow up playing it every day. I don't care if you like something I'm not interested in, and I don't wanna see Romero getting roasted either, because he doesn't deserve that for putting work into something he gives away for free (but also monetizes), nobody does.

And also agreed with Doom_Ro, don't gimme those stories of how "it's just a free christmas gift, so it must not be questioned ever", because Romero does expect to sell those Boxes, and he is on record for saying he might make more maps if the boxes sell well enough. By that logic every review of every wad this community made would have to be 10/10 would play again because it's free, but thank fuck that's not the case. I'm not holding the 2018 Romero over every other mapper in this community, but that doesn't mean I don't realize that we wouldn't be here flinging shit at one another if Doom never saw the light of day.

 

Quote

Well look at it from another perspective. Romero is making a new game besides the Sigil expansion. He can't just rely on his name alone for it to be popular.

4 minutes ago, Noiser said:

Yes, he can

No, he can't. Daikatana proves this quite nicely. Everybody was hyped for the new Romero game, but Daikatana was a flop regardless. It flopped so hard that it created the "John Romero is gonna make you his bitch meme" in the first place, and it's currently at a 14% rating on Google reviews, which is a pretty clear indication that "Romero™" is not a brand that turns lead into gold.

[Noiser]

 

11 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

No, he can't. Daikatana proves this quite nicely. Everybody was hyped for the new Romero game, but Daikatana was a flop regardless. It flopped so hard that it created the "John Romero is gonna make you his bitch meme" in the first place, and it's currently at a 14% rating on Google reviews, which is a pretty clear indication that "Romero™" is not a brand that turns lead into gold.

I think you don't get what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying he can't do bad stuff, but he is not obligated to reinvent the wheel anymore. You can't compare some maps made for a game that already exists with something like Daikatana (which it's not even that bad to be honest, regardless of popularity).

[Lazorical]

New doom episode comes out, after 25 years, by the same dev(?). Really cool tbh. Not that hyped but i'm not careless either.

Romero made Doom 1 (and 2?), and if it wasn't for him, nothing here would've probably existed. To me, it doesn't really matter if the maps are extraordinarily good, as in, it's better than anything else. Romero's trying to do this to celebrate the anniversary, maybe bring people back together. To me, this isn't a dev trying to remake an episode or a game to try and be the best, and we shouldn't expect that either.

This isn't just a level pack. I don't really know how to explain it, but i guess it shows that Romero is dedicated to make the new episode, and i think it's mostly for the community.

 

All i gotta say is that even if this isn't good, or a slaughterwad, or whatever else.. It's Romero showing that, even after 25 years, he's willing to make another episode. We're not supposed to hate him for making it too easy, or too difficult- We're not supposed to fight because of what we think or like- I'm not saying you should honor or praise him- But please be respectful at least.

[Sparktimus]

1 hour ago, Nancsi said:

Boohoo, more than 30 people will play a Doom mapset, which is not my favourite out of place funky colored 3000 enemy slaughterwad, boohoo.

Nice strawmanning there, partner. Literally no one here is saying that.

[DooM_RO]

@Noiser

 

Yes, yes, he does have a legacy but hasn't put up anything of note over almost two decades except an extremely controversial game, a failed Kickstarter and a couple of cool Doom maps.  So he's going to have to prove himself all over again, which is why he can't rely just on his name anymore. I'm not saying he's lost the magic, I'm saying he needs to try harder.

 

I do believe he can do it, he just needs to try harder. Again, I'm sure his maps are going to be really good but they won't be Skillsaw or Jimmy level. 

[Nine Inch Heels]

1 minute ago, Noiser said:

I think you don't get it.

Somebody says Romero can't simply make games popular just by slapping his name on them, which is a claim we can support with actual evidence (lots and lots of it within just the gaming industry alone). You argue that he can, which is easily proven false.

 

Sure he gets some free publicity, because he's Romero, but that's where it's gonna end. Whatever game he may or may not make needs to deliver decent reviews, no matter if he does reinvent the wheel or not (so don't even rope that into the argument).

 

Sure Daikatana may be better than its popularity suggests, but the core of the argument is popularity, not quality, so let's not move goalposts here, shall we?

[DooM_RO]

You guys are basically tell me that amateur modders can make amazing stuff like custom weapons, great texture sets like OTEX, even entire total conversions like REKKR and Adventures of Square as amateurs and he can't. Come on, if we hold every other game company to such standards then why wouldn't we hold him to the same standards? I would have bought the boxes to support him if he had put more effort in this. I know he is making a new game and I know he needs the support but he needs to try harder. 

[Sparktimus]

2 minutes ago, DooM_RO said:

@Noiser

 

Yes, yes, he does have a legacy but hasn't put up anything of note over almost two decades except an extremely controversial game, a failed Kickstarter and a couple of cool Doom maps.  So he's going to have to prove himself all over again, which is why he can't rely just on his name anymore. I'm not saying he's lost the magic, I'm saying he needs to try harder.

 

I do believe he can do it, he just needs to try harder. Again, I'm sure his maps are going to be really good but they won't be Skillsaw or Jimmy level. 

Ehhh. I don't think Romero needs to do anything. That sort of implies that he owes something to the community, which he doesn't at all. He was involved with the creation of the game which has spawned this community, so I don't think he has anything to prove. He isn't releasing this because he wants to prove his worth to us. Again, he's releasing this because he is still passionate about a game he had a direct hand in creating.

[Noiser]

26 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

Somebody says Romero can't simply make games popular just by slapping his name on them,

And yes, I'm saying it can be popular (niche-wise) even because the maps are looking good so far. I also said it doesn't make any sense to compare it with Daikatana.

But whatever man, i think I already said enough
 

26 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

 You argue that he can, which is easily proven false.

heh 8D
 

Edited December 11, 2018 by Noiser

[DooM_RO]

6 minutes ago, Sparktimus said:

Ehhh. I don't think Romero needs to do anything. That sort of implies that he owes something to the community, which he doesn't at all. He was involved with the creation of the game which has spawned this community, so I don't think he has anything to prove. He isn't releasing this because he wants to prove his worth to us. Again, he's releasing this because he is still passionate about a game he had a direct hand in creating.

 

You would be right if it didn't have a boxed release, complete with a collector's edition official site too. I mean it's obvious this is meant to generate hype, perhaps indirectly, for his new game. No matter what he puts out, I want him to try harder because I know he can do much better.

 

 

[DooM_RO]

If he could get Buckethead to make new music then why not a couple of artists too? Hell, since this is a free project he could have easily hired a few talented individuals from our community. 

[Nine Inch Heels]

Just now, Noiser said:

And yes, I'm saying it can be popular (niche-wise)

Moving the goalposts again.

 

It seems like it's you who doesn't "get it". Core argument was: If Romero made a new game, his name alone won't make it popular.

 

Also:

 

>Popular
>Niche

Pick one

 

 

1 minute ago, Noiser said:

it doesn't make any sense to compare these maps with Daikatana

Nobody compares these maps to Daikatana. Daikatana merely serves as evidence that a brand name alone doesn't cut it anymore, and that is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

[DooM_RO]

Just now, Nine Inch Heels said:

Nobody compares these maps to Daikatana. Daikatana merely serves as evidence that a brand name alone doesn't cut it anymore, and that is a good thing as far as I'm concerned.

 

You could argue the same about the Kickstarter.

[Sparktimus]

1 minute ago, DooM_RO said:

 

You would be right if it didn't have a boxed release, complete with a collector's edition official site too. I mean it's obvious this is meant to generate hype, perhaps indirectly, for his new game. No matter what he puts out, I want him to try harder because I know he can do much better.

 

 

I don't understand why him advertising his wad with some (optional) boxed stuff is inherently a bad thing. I personally wouldn't give Romero my money just to get some cool merch or whatever, but the wad itself is free to get. If he had locked it behind a paywall, I would be singing a different tune, but that's not the case.