SIGIL v1.21 - New Romero megawad [released!]

[Nine Inch Heels]

2 minutes ago, Gez said:

Certainly he gets more name recognition than most but that's fine and no reason to begrudge him

Do you guys have an army of strawmen at home? I never said that I don't like how people give him credit, all I said was that I'm not doing that. How hard is it for you people to tell these two things apart?

5 minutes ago, Gez said:

Let me put it that way: I don't spend time going through every single project thread to post in those that don't interest me

Guess who else doesn't do that. I'm here because I am interested, but that doesn't mean I need to blow sugar up Romero's ass ahead of time. Simple.

[Jon]

Plenty of time for us to patch e5* support into prboom+

[leodoom85]

Still in this thing?

Linguica made the whole point very clear. There's no need to discuss more...

And, being discussed about compatibility to specific sourceports doesn't matter to me. I just want to play and enjoy it...it's not hard really...

[BadLuckBurt]

I'll judge it when it's out. Even if I end up not liking it, I do like the fact Romero's doing this. I would've liked it even more if he included Tom Hall but that's his decision to make. I hope Tom still makes the map he wanted to do and puts it out but time will tell. In any case it'll be fun to see what John comes up with and in the meantime I have plenty of other wads to entertain me.

[TheMightyHeracross]

18 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

What you assume is irrelevant, and testing something in "source port X" does not guarantee that it will be made compatible in case it doesn't run.

I am well aware of that, but the numbering scheme as it stands still is kicking some popular source ports in the crotch, regardless of what you think may happen. Also demo compat is primarily a source port issue (except for GZ-exclusive maps because one update to the port breaks demo compat).

7 minutes ago, Jon said:

Plenty of time for us to patch e5* support into prboom+

 

I have plenty of faith that once John realizes that the numbering scheme is the only thing preventing it from running in Crispy or PrBoom, he will change it to replace an existing episode. He has stated many times that the mapset should work in any limit removing port, he merely hasn't tested it outside of ZDoom yet, so what probably happened is that he is just unaware that simpler ports lack MAPINFO support. He is well aware of and has directly addressed the demand for compatibility with other ports, particularly Crispy Doom, and he even asked the comments for suggestions for ports to test in, so he's clearly listening.

 

But, worst case scenario, let's assume he doesn't, and he leaves it as E5Mx. The solution is simple: after laughing at me and saying "I told you so," just make your own copy with the maps renamed to replace an existing episode, and make your PrBoom demos with that instead. It's a free PWAD! People do this with megawads all the time for those compilation packs like Compendium and 18-in-1. Seriously, it's not the end of the world, guys!

 

(That being said, basic MAPINFO functionality would be a fine addition to PrBoom+ anyway, especially given recent mappacks such as Valiant and Eviternity which split the game into episodes.)

[geo]

3 hours ago, GooberMan said:

It's more of a Doom 1.5 ⅓ though, which does have a 3 in it I'll admit.

Oh... so it's more like Star Wars: Rogue Squadron as episode 3.9 made 25+ years after the fact?

 

I'm happy he's doing it. I can only hope he charges money for it so Bethesda / ZeniMax have to step in to guard their intellectual property.

Edited December 13, 2018 by geo

[Gunstar Green]

You can buy the physical goodies if you want but they've been careful to have nothing Doom branded about them for Bethesda to throw a stink about. The wad itself is free like any other piece of fan content.

 

I'm not a lawyer though, I'm not sure if they'd have an argument or not if they want to say he's profiting of of Doom.

[NuMetalManiak]

I'm willing to check this out when it comes.

 

also everyone stop overthinking for the 10293874234 time or whatever

[Dark Pulse]

3 hours ago, Gez said:

More like Doom The Way Id Would If It Was Still The Old Team From The Nineties And They Made Limit-Removing Maps With Modern Tools Over Two Decades Later; but DTWIWIIWSTOTFTNATMLRMWMTOTDL is a less catchy acronym than DTWID I must admit.

Nice to meet you, D. Teweweew Stoft Natmler Mwem Totodile. How'd you get that name? 

[ImpieEyez95]

Spoiler

So we know that some of the music in the 5th episode is "Buildor pt. 2", "456",  and that as this is "like a compilation from all of his albums" along with one of the levels (either E5M2 or e5M3, being called "Containment Area".

Spoiler above. 

Edited December 13, 2018 by ImpieEyez95

[Dark Pulse]

1 hour ago, ImpieEyez95 said:

  Hide contents

So we know that some of the music in the 5th episode is "Buildor pt. 2", "456",  and that as this is "like a compilation from all of his albums" along with one of the levels (either E5M2 or e5M3, being called "Containment Area".

Spoiler above. 

I don't know how much faith I'd put into that. E5M4 was simply called "Sigil 4." I have a feeling the names aren't final.

[kb1]

12 hours ago, drfrag said:

 I find the attitude of some guys pretty offensive and i think they've managed to derail this thread and that's a shame.

Yeah, me too. I never expect people to share the same opinion, but I do hope that they think about who might read their posts.

 

Some people get off on controversy. Some people feel "cool and ironic" trying to buck the system, separate from the crowd - stand on their own.

And, some people are so miserable in their life that they try to "share the pain" as a way to somehow reduce their own pain. "Misery loves company".

 

NOTE: I'm not claiming to describe anyone here.

 

It takes real guts to actually care about something, because you can get embarrassed, or hurt. And, after experiencing enough trauma from being hurt, the easy way out is to develop an "uninvested, eveything bounces off of me" attitude, but it's just a front. I pity these people - they've got it all wrong.

 

When I see this, I tend to say something when I should probably just shut up. I just can't help but imagine Romero reading pages like this, and wondering how it makes him feel.

 

12 hours ago, drfrag said:

Considering this is a Doom forum i also was wondering some things:

Could that attitude be considered trolling? What do they intend? Just do some damage for the sake of it? Should moderation actions be taken? Should this thread be sanitized? Just a few questions nothing more. Shameful.

No, nothing needs to be done. It's your typical forum page with typical responses.

 

12 hours ago, drfrag said:

I'm also excited and hyped and i'd take a Romero wad over most of those megawads any time. I'm the guy who played E1 over 200 times back in the day after all and that was on a 386sx.

 

I promptly started my PC introduction with a 486-50, but, yeah, I was blown away too!

 

10 hours ago, DooM_RO said:

Right uuuh, so sorry again for my outburst.

 

Anyway, here's another perspective: While Romero is obviously a really good designer, it doesn't seem like he has really touched Doombuilder in years so even if he wanted to make the next Sunlust, I'm not sure he's there yet. Even if he'd like to make such maps/megawads in the future I doubt he has the time to invest to get to that level. In other words, he hasn't grown with us over the years and it seems he has only just recently got back into the loop. So for what it is, the WAD is looking pretty good. 

That is true, though I'd have to counter that this is Romero we're talking about. He's literally made hundreds of games, most from scratch. The man knows what it takes to make a game fun. And, you can bet that he's been playing a lot of Doom like the rest of us. My guess is that he's been checking out the tools, the ports, and everything else, for many years. But, he's not going to release just any map. With his reputation on the line, he probably has been experimenting with the new tools for a while. And, if not, he's the man I'd trust to get the job done.

 

5 hours ago, Gez said:

Romero hasn't been employed by id Software for a long, long while and he's working on Sigil as an individual, not as a company. Basically, Romero is in the community now. Certainly he gets more name recognition than most but that's fine and no reason to begrudge him. Let me put it that way: I don't spend time going through every single project thread to post in those that don't interest me that I'm not impressed or that such or such other project is more to my taste.

 

More like Doom The Way Id Would If It Was Still The Old Team From The Nineties And They Made Limit-Removing Maps With Modern Tools Over Two Decades Later; but DTWIWIIWSTOTFTNATMLRMWMTOTDL is a less catchy acronym than DTWID I must admit.

Ok, someone has to make that map!

 

[GarrettChan]

11 minutes ago, kb1 said:

NOTE: I'm not claiming to describe anyone here.

Then why though... BTW, I'm not hyped, so I think I'm miserable.

[baja blast rd.]

On 12/11/2018 at 6:56 PM, Nine Inch Heels said:

I propose an unnecessary exception to the rule that gives the "honorary iWAD" (hiWAD, in short, if you will) status to any and all WADs made by any person who participated in creating classic doom.

 

SIGIL.wad

 

[Varis Alpha]

4 hours ago, Gunstar Green said:

You can buy the physical goodies if you want but they've been careful to have nothing Doom branded about them for Bethesda to throw a stink about. The wad itself is free like any other piece of fan content.

 

I'm not a lawyer though, I'm not sure if they'd have an argument or not if they want to say he's profiting of of Doom.

interestingly enough, all the items on Limited Run has been renamed to "John Romero's X" (X being what edition and content there is). the only reference to Doom on there now is a disclaimer that Doom is a trademark of the respective owners, and i guess it being called a "megawad" in the item description.

[Gez]

Pretty sure the term "megawad" has only ever used by the community and that id never trademarked it.

[Knee Deep In The Fan]

9 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

You forget that some of us didn't grow up playing doom, including yours truly. I don't have that strong sense of nostalgia that some of you have, so obviously a lot of these "Romero is back with new Romero stuff" notions are lost on me, and maybe also others around here too.

"Millennials are killing Doom."

[D4NUK1]

1 hour ago, kb1 said:

Yeah, me too. I never expect people to share the same opinion, but I do hope that they think about who might read their posts.

 

Some people get off on controversy. Some people feel "cool and ironic" trying to buck the system, separate from the crowd - stand on their own.

And, some people are so miserable in their life that they try to "share the pain" as a way to somehow reduce their own pain. "Misery loves company".

 

NOTE: I'm not claiming to describe anyone here.

 

It takes real guts to actually care about something, because you can get embarrassed, or hurt. And, after experiencing enough trauma from being hurt, the easy way out is to develop an "uninvested, eveything bounces off of me" attitude, but it's just a front. I pity these people - they've got it all wrong.

 

When I see this, I tend to say something when I should probably just shut up. I just can't help but imagine Romero reading pages like this, and wondering how it makes him feel.

 

 

 

Dude, i thrink you are overreacting too, yeah it's great that John Romero is making a entire Episode, but when you call people sad and trash for not have you same reactions, that some douche things to say, also posting your opinions like is betters than others opinions. Also thrinking Romero will be hurt for some real opinions and not "HUUHUD is NOT BRUTAL " is kinda silly, Romero is a grand-father for trashtalking so maybe try to get own you own shoes first.

 

Also kinda ironic you also want some controversy. But anyway that not change the fact that Sigil looks better that No Rest fot the living, and with they work on E1M8b im will be pleased to play this Episode like a new Free-share wad.

[Space Marinara]

10 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

You forget that some of us didn't grow up playing doom, including yours truly. I don't have that strong sense of nostalgia that some of you have...

For me it's not what age it was played at but whether it was played on a CRT that determines the nostalgia. So much atmosphere is lost now on my LCD with it's over-exposed shadows. (Not knocking LCDs mind you, it's just not what the palette was made for).

[Linguica]

On his Twitch stream today Romero said that E1M8B and E1M4B were both kind of "warm up" activities and he didn't really feel like he had gotten back all his faculties until he was working on the full episode, and that he believes all the levels in Sigil are, on a technical level, better than those maps were (and I think he thinks, better than any of his earlier Doom levels as well).

[Chezza]

I'm pretty sure when Romero released those maps he stated they were warm ups anyway. I thought they were fine.

[Gez]

Yeah, they were said to be warmups in preparation for level design for Blackroom.

[Soundblock]

2 hours ago, Gez said:

Yeah, they were said to be warmups in preparation for level design for Blackroom.

Heck, do it in the Doom engine.

[ella guro]

56 minutes ago, Soundblock said:

Heck, do it in the Doom engine.

 

one of my secret hopes is that they'll dump trying to make Blackroom look all AAA and go the route of Dusk or something similar and do it in a Quake 1 sort of low-poly style. i mean, he's supposedly working with Adrian Carmack on this after all.

[SOSU]

13 minutes ago, ella guro said:

 

one of my secret hopes is that they'll dump trying to make Blackroom look all AAA and go the route of Dusk or something similar and do it in a Quake 1 sort of low-poly style. i mean, he's supposedly working with Adrian Carmack on this after all.

Considering that Romero showed of his plans in Doom (with e1m4b) and that all Romerogames games are retr styled games it may be the case that it will be a throwback to the late 90s :D

[Jon]

17 hours ago, leodoom85 said:

Still in this thing?

Linguica made the whole point very clear. There's no need to discuss more...

And, being discussed about compatibility to specific sourceports doesn't matter to me. I just want to play and enjoy it...it's not hard really...

 

I'm not sure if you are replying to me directly or not, but I'll reply on the assumption you are.

 

I think you might be mistaking my position to be aligned with some of the winging earlier in the thread, but that's not my position. I don't think of Prboom+ as some kind of immovable object. If there's a Romero E5 episode, then I see no reason why prboom+ couldn't be patched to support it, assuming e6y would merge the patches. It's still an open source port, albeit a slow-moving one. I've got code in there before, I might do so again. (I still have an account on the SVN, I think, but I wouldn't commit to the master branch w/o e6y's permission.)

 

I have no salt on Romero doing this. Good for him. I look forward to playing it. I won't lose sleep over it either way.

[leodoom85]

8 minutes ago, Jon said:

 

I'm not sure if you are replying to me directly or not, but I'll reply on the assumption you are.

 

I think you might be mistaking my position to be aligned with some of the winging earlier in the thread, but that's not my position. I don't think of Prboom+ as some kind of immovable object. If there's a Romero E5 episode, then I see no reason why prboom+ couldn't be patched to support it, assuming e6y would merge the patches. It's still an open source port, albeit a slow-moving one. I've got code in there before, I might do so again. (I still have an account on the SVN, I think, but I wouldn't commit to the master branch w/o e6y's permission.)

 

I have no salt on Romero doing this. Good for him. I look forward to playing it. I won't lose sleep over it either way.

Nope sir. It wasn't even remotely directed at you.

About prboom+, I think all of us are waiting for a sort of mapinfo to solve a lot of problems. Until then, we have to deal with it and wait.

[Jon]

2 hours ago, leodoom85 said:

Nope sir. It wasn't even remotely directed at you.

Fair enough. It was hard to tell because you replied immediately after me but didn't quote anyone.

[leodoom85]

6 minutes ago, Jon said:

Fair enough. It was hard to tell because you replied immediately after me but didn't quote anyone.

Sorry for that Jon. It's just that this thread is dragging badly for nonsense, without saying that the wad is NOT released yet.

I'll just wait for february cuz time flies fast enough and enjoy the wad as I usually do.

[drfrag]

3 hours ago, leodoom85 said:

I think all of us are waiting for a sort of mapinfo to solve a lot of problems.

 But there's already UMAPINFO support in Graf's cleaned up PrBoom+ repo. It's in GZDoom and about Eternity i'm not sure.

 Fabian could add support to Crispy if necessary or myself to RUDE (with tutti frutti galore).

 But we don't know what Romero will do yet.