Epyo Posted June 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Welfare Prodigy said: Anyone notice anything different after the 1.1 update? Another big change not mentioned in the patch notes in the pastebin above: E5M4 now has all 3 keys, so players won't be confused anymore about why they went through each path. 3 Share this post Link to post
Gunstar Green Posted June 1, 2019 Looks like someone's been reading this thread, lol. 3 Share this post Link to post
Edward850 Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Welfare Prodigy said: Anyone notice anything different after the 1.1 update? In E5M2 at the end of the level, where the health pack was that lowers the wall to the exit now has a health bonus (potion) and it has a bright glowing orb around it. That's obviously the mod you're playing on top, not Sigil. 8 Share this post Link to post
Welfare Prodigy Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Edward850 said: That's obviously the mod you're playing on top, not Sigil. I thought so and should have waited to comment to try out other options first: Pr+, GZDoom (without Brutal DooM, like in first post) So yes, I highly agree @Edward850 lol GZDoom/Pr+ without mods are fine. One question I do have tho. I emailed @beloko and waiting for response but I can't get SIGIL to run in Chocolate DooM, I keep getting error messages and I have tried all variations of what wad type I'm supposed to be using and still getting errors: 0 Share this post Link to post
Gunstar Green Posted June 1, 2019 SIGIL requires a limit removing source port so it won't run in Chocolate, you'll need to use Crispy. 5 Share this post Link to post
Welfare Prodigy Posted June 1, 2019 46 minutes ago, Epyo said: Another big change not mentioned in the patch notes in the pastebin above: E5M4 now has all 3 keys, so players won't be confused anymore about why they went through each path. Lol that sure confused the shit out me hahaha like ...uummmmm 0 Share this post Link to post
DefilerPhil47 Posted June 1, 2019 2 hours ago, banjiepixel said: Many people seem to feel that E5M8 is anticlimactic finish but I think it is supposed to be more of a reward for surviving E5M7. E5M8 is just so much fun for me. It seems to be a map where you are supposed to run past the monsters instead of killing them, even the last moments seem to be about just running past spider mastermind and cyberdemon. It seems to me that there are many moments in Sigil where Romero wanted the player to just avoid certain monsters instead of fighting them and E5M8 is a great way to finish with that. I have now completed Sigil four times, twice with prboom-plus, twice with gzdoom. Two times of those time I did it with HMP and two times with UV. I think it is now safe to say that I do really like Sigil. I think only E5M7 has some bad parts, other levels are very good and fun to play. And on that note, i can't wait to see some speedrun times on E5M8 because of the pretty good bypass in the level that just skips half the level. 1 Share this post Link to post
Ripspleen Posted June 1, 2019 I almost didn't like si666il. But then I played through it a second time and now I want more. 1 Share this post Link to post
Revenant100 Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, esselfortium said: Weighing in on the controversy: Loading SIGIL_COMPAT.WAD also breaks E4M8's ending, thereby creating another technically all-new episode in that it establishes an alternate canonical outcome wherein Doomguy's defeat of the Spider Mastermind(s) achieves nothing and does not reveal a hidden doorway leading back to Earth, rendering him contained to Hell and unable to avenge the death of Daisy (which he never learns of). However, leaving Doomguy trapped in Hell is certainly a deliberate artistic choice to instead prematurely lead the storyline directly into the events of Doom 64's ending and, consequently, Doom 2016, which as we all know clearly established that all PWADs are canon. In other words, Sigil's non-canon canon-ness has led to its canonization by non-canonizing the canon events to lead into the canon which canonized all previously non-canon canon. This is truly a mind bending twist to the lore on Romero's part. Si6il isn't just a new episode. It's a whole new Doom paradigm. Edited June 1, 2019 by Revenant100 19 Share this post Link to post
Budoka Posted June 1, 2019 I've been quite successful at finishing off all/most enemies in each map on UV so far. It's not like it's impossible or anything. 0 Share this post Link to post
WH-Wilou84 Posted June 1, 2019 4 hours ago, Welfare Prodigy said: Anyone notice anything different after the 1.1 update? In E5M2 at the end of the level, where the health pack was that lowers the wall to the exit now has a health bonus (potion) and it has a bright glowing orb around it. It's because there are like 5 or 10 health potions here instead of just 1, so the glow effects of the mod you're using might be adding up. 1 Share this post Link to post
NightFright Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) If there was a stimpack before and it's less than 10 stacked potions, it's a nerf. Not sure why this was done, but maybe as a marker, even though that only really works with dynamic lights (lights.pk3 loaded in GZDoom) activated. 0 Share this post Link to post
noisebloom Posted June 1, 2019 5 hours ago, dugan said: You can edit the gzdoom ini file and add them there. https://zdoom.org/wiki/How_to_autoload_files Thanks - this is exactly what I was looking for! Now Sigil has a permanent home when I boot up GZDoom. :) 1 Share this post Link to post
Quasar Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) 47 minutes ago, NightFright said: If there was a stimpack before and it's less than 10 stacked potions, it's a nerf. Not sure why this was done, but maybe as a marker, even though that only really works with dynamic lights (lights.pk3 loaded in GZDoom) activated. Apparently the player needs to go over there, but if they have >= 100% health they'd have no reason to do so (can't pick up a stimpack). By making it health potions, they're more useful (up to 200%) and are also required for 100% item collection. 10 Share this post Link to post
CyberDreams Posted June 1, 2019 9 hours ago, DynamiteKaitorn said: So yeah. Sigil. The guy who brought E1M1 - E1M8 + E1M9 (more or less) brings us Sigil! A collection of hard maps, unfair challanges and the generic "overly detailed" problem I usually see in DooM maps. You can make a terrible looking map with a fantastic gameplay and you can make a gorgeous map play like someone being tortured. You should try playing on HMP or lower as i'm going to assuming that you played on UV. Even if the style isn't to your liking persay, maybe you can at least finish it without cheating. It's definitely worth it imo. 7 hours ago, Mk7_Centipede said: whoa! Downloaded this today and beat a couple levels and died in map 3, Cages of the Damned. I was happy to get it running on basically every port i have. But how do I get rid of the mouse-move in prboom? I feel like these maps have layers. Very nice layouts and fun gameplay- at least on normal. <3 I only use PrBoom+ 2.5.1.4 which is the older version but assuming that you are talking about vertical mouse movement all you have to do is go to the Options->Mouse Sensitivity->Vertical and turn that down all the way (move the slider to the left). 6 Share this post Link to post
mattjoes Posted June 1, 2019 8 hours ago, NuMetalManiak said: To add on to that I was definitely not a fan of that thin maze with lost souls in it. Quite boring really. I liked it, myself. I was fascinated by how cramped it was (in a good way). I think the stairs in the last building could've been wider. Nonetheless, probably my favorite map in the set, along with the secret level (which I believe has not been a favorite of people, at least in this thread.) 0 Share this post Link to post
mattjoes Posted June 1, 2019 Just now, Quasar said: Apparently the player needs to go over there, but if they have >= 100% health they'd have no reason to do so (can't pick up a stimpack). By making it health potions, they're more useful (up to 200%) and are also required for 100% item collection. The change makes sense. On my second playthrough, I didn't go inside because I had more than 100% health. I hadn't realized before how the final room was meant to be opened. Much better if it's a potion. 2 Share this post Link to post
EANB Posted June 1, 2019 I saw some complaints that there isn't enough ammo to get 100% kills on map 9 from a pistol start, but it is definitely possible. If you save all the cells and rockets for the cyberdemon it should only need a few shotgun hits to finish off. The 2 barons in the map can easily be taken care of with infighting and many of the imps and demons can be berserked down. It requires more than a typical amount of planning and advanced knowledge of the map, but you can't expect to get 100% your first time through most maps. 4 Share this post Link to post
Vermil Posted June 1, 2019 I've played the episode in UV now and I have to say I'm disappointed; these maps seemed nowhere near the standard of Mr Romero's original Doom maps, in visuals or gameplay. As my disappointment was consistent throughout, I can't really highlight any particular areas. 1 Share this post Link to post
seed Posted June 1, 2019 31 minutes ago, CyberDreams said: You should try playing on HMP or lower as i'm going to assuming that you played on UV. Even if the style isn't to your liking per say, maybe you can at least finish it without cheating. It's definitely worth it imo. I'm actually almost amazed to see how many people seem to have a problem with the difficulty on UV. Sheesh, but it might just be me being used to high difficulty at this point because yeah, that's the kind of Doom wads I seem to play these days. Still, I think Sigil on UV is pretty tame, an expected ramp up from Thy Flesh Consumed. HMP is extremely easy in comparison. 11 Share this post Link to post
Varis Alpha Posted June 1, 2019 i think it's just an ingrained, collective consciousness in the community to always play a new wad on UV the first run, combined with the fact that people might be more used to Doom 2 wads than Doom 1 ones, whose game design is considerably different because of the bestiary being half the size here and the SSG is missing, which makes it harder to kill meatwalls like Cacos and Barons. the difficulty becomes rather different as a result, because now you can put Cacos and Barons in strategic situations to oppress the player, either draining them of their ammo because of the shotgun's small effectiveness compared to the SSG, or make them ignore direct confrontation and either don't engage them or find other means to take them down. i didn't have too much problem with ammo management on continuous playthrough becaquse i usually just ignored the Barons in earlier levels to conserve ammo, which gave me enough ammo to more handily deal with them in the later levels. i'll admit i haven't played E4 in a while, but i do recall some situations where Barons and Cacos were used to oppress the player in similar ways like they do in Sigil. 3 Share this post Link to post
holaareola Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) I think complaining about difficulty being too hard if you're playing on UV makes as much sense as complaining that a wad is boring if you're playing on ITYTD. If a wad is too hard, well you know what, that is why there are difficulty levels. With UV, you've essentially asked for the hardest experience of a wad that's still ordinarily possible to complete. If you're getting repeatedly trounced, drop a level, aren't we all playing for fun? Sometimes I wonder if a good idea would be for a WAD to start with a taster room roughly as difficult as the hardest part in the level set, just so you know straightaway, without losing progress, that oh, my typical difficulty choice isn't the one I want here and I need to restart. 18 Share this post Link to post
Touchdown Posted June 1, 2019 I have played through Sigil several times now (I've got the "registered" version with Buckethead soundtrack) and I have to say I greatly enjoy it. These levels are definitely a big step up from E1M8b and E1M4b which I thought were really underwhelming (and certainly undeserving of a Cacoward). Sigil has managed to remain unswayed by modern design tendencies and I'm glad to see it features a lot of unpopular gameplay and design elements: damaging floors are everywhere, there are lots of thin walkways and inescapable pits, ammo scarcity is pretty high, a lot of areas are really dark. It's hostile and sometimes deliberately confusing... All of those elements remind me of how it felt playing DOOM back in the day and it's really nostalgic for that reason. In many ways Sigil captures exactly what DOOM is to me. It's dark and oppressive, cramped as hell, stingy with resources and there are a lot of environmental hazards. It's not pure run&gun, rip&tear, endless badassery nonsense like what most people consider DOOM to be these days. Despite what he says, levels speak louder than words - Romero gets it. It's not a demon-killing vacation where you're an unstoppable demigod. You have to pay attention, be careful and not careless, keep an eye on the ammo you have. You're capable but vulnerable. This is DOOM. And it's kind of funny how some people complain about those elements. They've been inundated with this new-fangled idea of what DOOM is and they can't fathom how come you can't survive by playing it like a pure action game. I'm glad Romero didn't abandon those aspects of the game because I think they're instrumental to the true essence of DOOM. As someone who likes to pistol-start levels I have to say I'm very disappointed with how hostile Sigil is towards that kind of thing. The worst offenders here are maps 5, 6 and 7 that for some reason do not give you a Chaingun at all. So if you try to pistol-start them have fun shooting stuff with a Pistol when out of shells. I understand that maybe continuous gameplay is intended here but there's no reason to not provide at least one Chaingun on each map - killing anything with a Pistol is obnoxious. That's not really making those maps harder, it's just making them more annoying and slow. I'll be completely blunt regarding Buckethead soundtrack and say that I do not understand whatsoever how exactly all this solo-ridden guitar music makes sense in DOOM. The only track that really fits the game and enhances the atmosphere is the one that plays in E5M5. I also really like the music in E5M6 even though it doesn't fit Hell at all. Other than that it's a mix of good but completely unfitting music. I haven't played with the midis, only kind of skimmed through them so I can't say much about that. The only real low points in the episode for me are levels 8 and 9. The secret map is extremely uninspired and it feels like Romero needed to fill the slot but didn't really have any specific ideas for it. Likewise the finale is pretty poorly designed. I don't mind the beginning but the last fight feels obligatory if you catch my drift. If there's anything else I can complain about it would be the fact that most levels are really straightforward. There's not a whole lot happening in terms of openess and most of the interconnectivity is there for convenience rather than providing alternative paths. It also sometimes feels a bit contrived, like there's only one intended way to play and you can't really improvise in terms of progression. That's not really detracting from the experience too much but it's something to mention. Other than that I think some detail/texturing is a bit questionable, like the flesh bits in E5M7. I enjoy playing most of the levels in the set though my favourites would probably be E5M2, E5M5 and E5M6 - the last two being unpopular choices from what I can tell. E5M7 is fitting for the penultimate level and has a sense of a journey towards the finale. In terms of atmosphere it's a very competent Hell episode that feels both hellish and surreal at times. Overally I think Sigil is really good. I'd be happy to see more classic DOOM maps from Romero, preferably this time something based on DOOM2. 16 Share this post Link to post
DynamiteKaitorn Posted June 1, 2019 3 hours ago, CyberDreams said: ou should try playing on HMP or lower as i'm going to assuming that you played on UV. Even if the style isn't to your liking persay, maybe you can at least finish it without cheating. It's definitely worth it imo. I rarely touch UV. This WAS on HMP and I still found it sadistic. 0 Share this post Link to post
Rathori Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Touchdown said: As someone who likes to pistol-start levels I have to say I'm very disappointed with how hostile Sigil is towards that kind of thing. The worst offenders here are maps 5, 6 and 7 that for some reason do not give you a Chaingun at all. So if you try to pistol-start them have fun shooting stuff with a Pistol when out of shells. I understand that maybe continuous gameplay is intended here but there's no reason to not provide at least one Chaingun on each map - killing anything with a Pistol is obnoxious. That's not really making those maps harder, it's just making them more annoying and slow. I agree about E5M7, but why would you need the chaingun on E5M6 when you get the plasmagun at the very beginning of the map, and plenty of ammo throughout? Also I didn't really miss chaingun on E5M5 either, you get plenty of shotgun ammo and berserk and can just go tyson on most of the enemies. I think there was only one or two spots where having a chaingun really makes things easier, but otherwise it's doesn't make much of a difference. But on E5M7 it really sucks without the chaingun, especially the chasm with the cacos and lost souls, although in many places the BFG makes up for it. Still, even on this map my pistol start run suffered more from poor health management on my part than ammo starvation. Edited June 1, 2019 by Rathori 3 Share this post Link to post
Loud Silence Posted June 1, 2019 E5M2 100% is really possible on UV without losing all ammo. Cyberdemon didn't require ammo at all, two Cacos and Baron in last room didn't need much ammo too. 2 Share this post Link to post
Rathori Posted June 1, 2019 (edited) I think a lot of people who complain about ammo starvation in SIGIL forget infighting is a thing in DOOM. A lot meatwall fights have both cacos and barons in them - I mean, it's pretty clear what to do there to conserve ammo ;) You can often berserk punch or saw the barons while they're dealing with cacos, spending literally 0 ammo. 8 Share this post Link to post
seed Posted June 1, 2019 3 hours ago, holaareola said: Sometimes I wonder if a good idea would be for a WAD to start with a taster room roughly as difficult as the hardest part in the level set, just so you know straightaway, without losing progress, that oh, my typical difficulty choice isn't the one I want here and I need to restart. I think that's a good idea, and some wads have actually done this one way or another. Skillsaw himself said that the Cyberdemon on the first map of AA was meant to tell the player what they are getting into, therefore if they weren't capable of handling UV or prepared for that kind of stuff, well, that was where they knew they had to choose another difficulty setting, at the very beginning of the wad. 7 Share this post Link to post
pcorf Posted June 1, 2019 26 minutes ago, Rimantas said: E5M2 100% is really possible on UV without losing all ammo. Cyberdemon didn't require ammo at all, two Cacos and Baron in last room didn't need much ammo too. Yes it is important to have them fight so circle strafing is the key and make sure you don't accidentally walk onto the exit if you want max kills. 1 Share this post Link to post
pcorf Posted June 1, 2019 6 hours ago, WH-Wilou84 said: It's because there are like 5 or 10 health potions here instead of just 1, so the glow effects of the mod you're using might be adding up. Yep there are 10 health bonuses there. It is a bit like a stimpack that will get you past 100% health. 0 Share this post Link to post