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MsKaye

SIGIL v1.21 - New Romero megawad [released!]

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Maybe he's currently in progress of adding specific support for Sigil and testing stuff? I dunno.

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Jimmy's "Title Screen - Lands of Ire" track is the hook from "A Past and Future Secret", by Blind Guardian, isn't it.

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On 6/4/2019 at 10:49 AM, Get Phobo said:

Very nice.

I'm so sorry about the offtopic but your nickname and pic are the best I've seen in a forum, ever

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8 hours ago, xttl said:

Maybe he's currently in progress of adding specific support for Sigil and testing stuff? I dunno.

Yep.

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So I've played SIGIL and think it's really cool, but wanted to mention that I still have yet to receive my package. I live in Australia but still, I feel like it aught to be here by now..

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I received the box today (I am in Australia).  The cover art is embossed, which I wasn't originally expecting (I first found out about that when someone else got theirs).  The build quality of the physical items is reasonably good, though if I had to nitpick, the jewel case is a little difficult to open (the hinge is really tight on my copy), and there are a few white creases and tears along the bottom front of the box for some reason.  LRG defects aside, I'm happy to have another big box in my DOOM collection.

 

Photos of the inner packaging:

 

Spoiler

1173064482_sigilunboxing1.jpg.94eb37145ef25e7cb0217657993831f3.jpg

1748646697_sigilunboxing2.jpg.f10eb837271418a56c7afbc28980c6e3.jpg

 

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11 hours ago, xttl said:

 

Yes, it's indeed possible to just run to the exit without touching any boss monsters, but since fabian is the coder of Crispy Doom I believe he's referring to how in vanilla engine if you load the map as E5M8, it will end as soon as you either kill the Spider, the Cyber or all the Barons due to how p_enemy.c:A_BossDeath works (boss enemy type is only specifically checked for episodes <= 4 and the default behaviour is to end level instantly when all boss monsters of a particular type are dead, only triggering 666 tagged sectors in episodes 1 and 4).

 

Yes, this is exactly it! There are three types of potential boss enemies on map E5M8 and since there is no specific support for episode 5 in any source port, the map will end as soon as one of the (types of) boss monsters is killed. I find it hard to believe that this is really an oversight!

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I have been exploring the first level, finished it a couple of times, i did not get more far than that yet, but i just had to use idclip and then the wiki because there was no rational way of discovering the secrets beyond the soul sphere one, which is disappointing.

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8 minutes ago, D88M3R said:

I have been exploring the first level, finished it a couple of times, i did not get more far than that yet, but i just had to use idclip and then the wiki because there was no rational way of discovering the secrets beyond the soul sphere one, which is disappointing.

The radsuit requires walking off a ledge after the Soulsphere while the other two are simply found by exploring the lava. I wouldn't call any of them obscure.

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This may be a stupid question, but... Any chance of Sigil being released as an add-on for numerous still sold console versions of Doom? XOne? PS4?

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Spectre01 said:

The radsuit requires walking off a ledge after the Soulsphere while the other two are simply found by exploring the lava. I wouldn't call any of them obscure.

There was no visual clue in how to get there, and now i am standing right in front of the Icon of Sin, i just shot at it and i cant finish the level, i pressed the space bar and it also did nothing, pretty obscure design i would say, it is confusing, a shame because besides that i do like the first level.

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1 minute ago, Szuran said:

This may be a stupid question, but... Any chance of Sigil being released as an add-on for numerous still sold console versions of Doom? XOne? PS4?

Unlikely, Romero doesn't own Doom, and Sigil is basically a PWAD- Just made by a very prolific and important figure. I doubt Bethesda is interested in releasing Sigil in any capacity, considering the licensing and such that would have to happen.

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Just now, D88M3R said:

There was no visual clue in how to get there, and now i am standing right in front of the Icon of Sin, i just shot at it and i cant finish the level, i pressed the space bar and it also did nothing, pretty obscure design i would say, it is confusing, a shame because besides that i do like the first level.

The cue is that you get a radsuit. There's quite a few secrets like this in classic doom. Think about e1m1, there is a secret that only opens once you enter the exit room, and another one that only opens after crossing a very specific line near a lamp in the corner. These are pretty obscure secrets, and most of us wouldn't even consider them if they weren't so deeply in-bedded in our Doom-senses.  

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1 minute ago, Egg Boy said:

Unlikely, Romero doesn't own Doom, and Sigil is basically a PWAD- Just made by a very prolific and important figure. I doubt Bethesda is interested in releasing Sigil in any capacity, considering the licensing and such that would have to happen.

However it was sold on PC but without the licensing. How does that work? Is it like: we're selling the box and the soundtrack, and the WAD was a free bonus, or other legal tricks?

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Just now, Szuran said:

However it was sold on PC but without the licensing. How does that work? Is it like: we're selling the box and the soundtrack, and the WAD was a free bonus, or other legal tricks?

Romero sold the .wad which can be distributed as he pleases, as long as it doesn't contain any copyrighted material, which it doesn't since you need Doom.wad to run it.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, fabian said:

Yes, this is exactly it! There are three types of potential boss enemies on map E5M8 and since there is no specific support for episode 5 in any source port, the map will end as soon as one of the (types of) boss monsters is killed. I find it hard to believe that this is really an oversight!

 

Well, you could argue that the WAD added specific support for ZDoom and Eternity MAPINFO lumps, it was actually designed for them. Does it behave like that in those ports?

 

I noticed Doom Retro removed the logic previously added to have the Spiderdemon finish the level (like Episode 3, which would have made sense if that was intended, since it's what sigil_compat replaces). The commit mentions that it's related to Sigil v1.1's release notes, but I can't find any statement about that in the txt files.

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43 minutes ago, Ferk said:

Well, you could argue that the WAD added specific support for ZDoom and Eternity MAPINFO lumps, it was actually designed for them. Does it behave like that in those ports?

I don't think so. I couldn't find any hint in any of the other *MAPINFO lumps in the PWAD regarding which of the three types of boss monsters is supposed to end the level.

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Posted (edited)

Yes, I also didn't find it. That's why I'm wondering if it actually behaves as you described, I cannot test it right now.

I expect it's intentionally not specifying any monster, probably it's not meant to end when killing them, and that would explain why Doom Retro made that change.

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13 hours ago, dugan said:

Jimmy's "Title Screen - Lands of Ire" track is the hook from "A Past and Future Secret", by Blind Guardian, isn't it.

 

I thought it sounded familiar. I think you're onto something.

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4 hours ago, D88M3R said:

There was no visual clue in how to get there, and now i am standing right in front of the Icon of Sin, i just shot at it and i cant finish the level, i pressed the space bar and it also did nothing, pretty obscure design i would say, it is confusing, a shame because besides that i do like the first level.

Just walk forward. You probably need to replay all of Ultimate Doom as a refresher because I feel you are going to suffer too much for your own good.

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7 hours ago, Szuran said:

However it was sold on PC but without the licensing. How does that work? Is it like: we're selling the box and the soundtrack, and the WAD was a free bonus, or other legal tricks?

Pretty much. The main .wad is freely available and therefore is not counted as part of the transaction, which allows you to skirt around the licencing.

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7 hours ago, fabian said:

I don't think so. I couldn't find any hint in any of the other *MAPINFO lumps in the PWAD regarding which of the three types of boss monsters is supposed to end the level.

 

6 hours ago, Ferk said:

Yes, I also didn't find it. That's why I'm wondering if it actually behaves as you described, I cannot test it right now.

I expect it's intentionally not specifying any monster, probably it's not meant to end when killing them, and that would explain why Doom Retro made that change.

 

I'd say the only intended way to end the level is to cross the exit linedefs which are near the invuln sphere inside the pentagram. This is how the non-compat WAD works in GZDoom. The compat version comes with an internal DEHACKED lump which removes the A_BossDeath call from the Spiderdemon's death frames, which is enough because only Spiderdemon deaths can end the level when gameepisode is 3.

 

It's a bit dumb perhaps because the player can just run to the exit, but I guess it had to be made this way so the compat version could work in all ports without supported means to specify custom boss death behaviours from the WAD, the port just needs to have internal DHE support. (well in theory something could maybe have been done using A_KeenDie since DHE support was already accepted as a requirement...)

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On 6/3/2019 at 9:11 PM, fraggle said:

Just out of curiosity I decided to compare the original pics of the clay mold for the Icon of Sin figure against the final figure as shipped:

 

u2Z98b0.jpg 45BbkTg.jpg

 

eouc08B.jpg ITOV03E.jpg 

 

Looks like we got a shapelier chin and a cutback on the gibs budget.

Looks like Romero had a stroke in the new one. The right side of his face is drooping.

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11 hours ago, TheUltimateDoomer666 said:

I received the box today (I am in Australia).  The cover art is embossed, which I wasn't originally expecting (I first found out about that when someone else got theirs).  The build quality of the physical items is reasonably good, though if I had to nitpick, the jewel case is a little difficult to open (the hinge is really tight on my copy), and there are a few white creases and tears along the bottom front of the box for some reason.  LRG defects aside, I'm happy to have another big box in my DOOM collection.

 

Photos of the inner packaging:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

1173064482_sigilunboxing1.jpg.94eb37145ef25e7cb0217657993831f3.jpg

1748646697_sigilunboxing2.jpg.f10eb837271418a56c7afbc28980c6e3.jpg

 

I'm in the US and haven't heard word of my box I ordered. I'm on mobile and haven't checked up on or kept up with the thread but is something going on with the boxes? I expected to have it around the time Sigil released and have heard or seen nothing of the boxes.

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Posted (edited)

Perhaps it depends on how quickly you ordered. My standard box arrived in the uk a couple of days a go and also included a card with a number on it.

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1 hour ago, xttl said:

I'd say the only intended way to end the level is to cross the exit linedefs which are near the invuln sphere inside the pentagram. This is how the non-compat WAD works in GZDoom. The compat version comes with an internal DEHACKED lump which removes the A_BossDeath call from the Spiderdemon's death frames, which is enough because only Spiderdemon deaths can end the level when gameepisode is 3.

 

So, the correct behaviour is to not even trigger BossDeath() at all - or return early if (gameepisode == 5)?

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, fabian said:

 

So, the correct behaviour is to not even trigger BossDeath() at all - or return early if (gameepisode == 5)?

 

Either one would really work just as well, but the latter should be easier to add into the code because you don't have to modify the state tables on startup. I think GZDoom and Eternity both trigger BossDeath but it just does nothing in E5M8.

Edited by xttl

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43 minutes ago, xttl said:

I think GZDoom and Eternity both trigger BossDeath but it just does nothing in E5M8.

Just did the same in Crispy, thanks! 

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Wait, the MIDI was by Jimmy??? I just assumed it would be a conversion of the BH soundtrack!! Sign me up!!!!

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