Top 25 Cacoward Snubs

[Gez]

6 hours ago, Scuba Steve said:

I remember this project coming up last year. The verdict was... it just isn't that fun. Jumping and whipping candles on walls in a 2.5d engine is extremely tedious and the standard ZDoom jumping mechanics are frustrating (this is largely why Golden Souls 2 easily won a Cacoward over Golden Souls 1).

I know I enjoyed Golden Souls 2 a lot (and a lot more than GS1), while for Simon's Destiny just watching the trailer video was enough to dissuade me from even trying it.

[FrancisT218]

I already think Batandy got his recognition worth in the main event awards this year with GS2 which is clearly his opus (so far), so given that the inclusion of GS1 was already a waste of a snub spot IMO and including Simon's Destiny would likewise have been.

 

On that regard IMO there's three bad (mainly because they seem redundant) uses of spots on the list:

-Golden Souls (explained above)

-Rylayeh (visuals over gameplay; and already awarded author for Crimson Canyon the prior year)

-Sacrament (already included ALT by BOS on the list which is only better so much like GS1 it's kind of redundant)

 

Three (out of many!) possible alternative choices for these:

-Flashback to Hell (or Oblivion; poor Stormwalker!)

-Gene Tech Before the Storm

-Needs More Detail

 

There are other wads on the list of course where the author already got recognition for another one of their works, but in those cases the snubbed wad is superior to or at least very different from anything they made that did get awarded, or (Scythe X) is a project that would have been basically a shoo in if finished, so they still seemed like good chouces. As such when including the consideration that the 'severity' of snubbing them at the time is of greater relevance here than how they hold up now, I can't fault the other 22, it's a well thought list. :) 

Edited December 17, 2018 by FrancisT18

[kmxexii]

4 hours ago, FrancisT18 said:

I already think Batandy got his recognition worth in the main event awards this year with GS2 which is clearly his opus (so far), so given that the inclusion of GS1 was already a waste of a snub spot IMO and including Simon's Destiny would likewise have been.

 

On that regard IMO there's three bad (mainly because they seem redundant) uses of spots on the list:

-Golden Souls (explained above)

-Rylayeh (visuals over gameplay; and already awarded author for Crimson Canyon the prior year)

-Sacrament (already included ALT by BOS on the list which is only better so much like GS1 it's kind of redundant)

 

Three (out of many!) possible alternative choices for these:

-Flashback to Hell (or Oblivion; poor Stormwalker!)

-Gene Tech Before the Storm

-Needs More Detail

 

There are other wads on the list of course where the author already got recognition for another one of their works, but in those cases the snubbed wad is superior to or at least very different from anything they made that did get awarded, or (Scythe X) is a project that would have been basically a shoo in if finished, so they still seemed like good chouces. As such when including the consideration that the 'severity' of snubbing them at the time is of greater relevance here than how they hold up now, I can't fault the other 22, it's a well thought list. :) 

 

This is approaching Brandon D. Lade levels of micro-management. Also I disagree with the idea that GS1 is a superfluous inclusion since it seems to be based on the fact that the 2018 Cacowards and 25th anniversary celebration happened to be contemporaneous.

[TimeOfDeath666]

Just saw this, thanks for the esp write-up rdwpa :)

[Bauul]

On 12/17/2018 at 1:46 AM, EtherBot said:

No thats totally fair, I just think that the point of the cacowards is to reward excellent mods more than excellent 'games' if that makes sense. Sometimes the sheer vision or technical know-how behind a mod is enough for it to deserve something imo

 

I think most people would disagree with you to be honest. At the end of the day a mapset needs to be fun. Not to dimish the efforts put into these mods, but to be truly worthy of a Cacoward it must be first and foremost a great gameplay experience. Most of the maps than have won one are not technical tour-de-forces for exactly that reason. Gameplay is always more important than technical achievement.  

[Da Werecat]

They're both important, it's just that when one is very neglected it's hard to appreciate the other.

[Linguica]

3 hours ago, Bauul said:

but to be truly worthy of a Cacoward it must be first and foremost a great gameplay experience.

 

I think this is overstating it. To win a Cacoward something must provide a great experience, bar none. What does it mean to provide a great "gameplay" experience? Does that apply to every winner ever? Even stuff like Comatose or Lilith or Sheer Poison where the "gameplay" is second fiddle to the mood and aesthetic?

[TerminusEst13]

I play stuff and try to have fun, and then try to talk about the stuff I think was the most fun.

 

That's really all it boils down to, for me.

[Bauul]

32 minutes ago, Linguica said:

To win a Cacoward something must provide a great experience, bar none. 

 

Oh completely, I just meant the experience of playing it is what matters, not purely the technical achievement. 

[OliveTree]

13 hours ago, Bauul said:

I think most people would disagree with you to be honest. At the end of the day a mapset needs to be fun. Not to dimish the efforts put into these mods, but to be truly worthy of a Cacoward it must be first and foremost a great gameplay experience. Most of the maps than have won one are not technical tour-de-forces for exactly that reason. Gameplay is always more important than technical achievement.  

5

I agree that for a consumer, gameplay is more vital than technical achievement. That is true. However, for a general 'greatest doom mods of the year' selection of awards, I think that the pure innovation or ability on display is often award-worthy, regardless of how fun or not fun something is for a consumer to play as if it were a standalone game.

 

EDIT: hit enter prematurely

 

For instance: Doom 64 Retribution is a fantastic mod, despite the fact that often times Doom 64's level design and encounters aren't very fun at all. The way that they managed to faithfully recreate Doom 64 on the gzdoom engine though, and even tastefully improve some areas, is definitely worth a cacoward once the mod is finished if you ask me.

[Doom Marine]

On 12/11/2018 at 6:44 PM, Scuba Steve said:

From 2004-2010, I was the primary gatekeeper to winning a Cacoward; if you had a problem with the winners, it was entirely my fault. Starting in 2011, other contributors were brought on to take the fall and defend why the map they selected was worthy of being a top 10 winner. Let's be blunt-I/we probably made a lot of mistakes. From the outright vitriol I took for my selection of KDiZD to the chaos caused by lilith's award, there was never a shortage of forum resentment on what SHOULD have won! Well... here we are, 15 years later, to rectify some of those mistakes! While I can't take back awards for 'undeserved' projects, we can present you with the 25 best wads that never won a Cacoward.

 

...in hindsight, I really kinda blew it with Deus Vult I, didn't I?

2

 

I think you tried your best. There's just too many sub-categories for any one person to tackle. If I was the gatekeeper of awards, I doubt I could remain as objective. I was excited to have even been mentioned that year.