Does Anyone else think that TNT has godawful level design?

[StevenC21]

Thanks for the responses all. I will say that I did in fact really like TNT before MAP20, but after that my enjoyment quickly fell. I am definitely going to finish it though. I'm glad to know that I'm not alone in this...

[Novaseer]

Still better than anything I can make.

[TakenStew22]

14 minutes ago, StevenC21 said:

Thanks for the responses all. I will say that I did in fact really like TNT before MAP20, but after that my enjoyment quickly fell. I am definitely going to finish it though. I'm glad to know that I'm not alone in this...

Good luck on Map 27. You're gonna need it.

[valkiriforce]

If you'd like some additional help on TNT, there's some really nice map renders created by Mr8 available under the maps section of Doom Depot. It includes key locations, teleporters, secrets and the map exit locations.

[Erick]

Some of the map layouts in the first two episodes of TNT are pretty underappreciated, I love playing through MAP20 and running through the huge outside area. MAP32 also has some nice design to it, maybe not the same as MAP31 but I still enjoy having a good view on the map.

 

I wouldn't say the third episode is all terrible, but it really did had a bunch of stinkers. Going into MAP21 greets me blandness and just not having a clue on what am I supposed to look at. That and most other maps feel either plain or have ideas that fall flat. If neither, then it's MAP22: Habitat.

[Dime]

Lots of people mentoning the Casali map Heck. If you shoved that one into plutonia It would be a weaker entry.

[Fonze]

I thought the final episode of TNT was awesome and had some of the best levels of the iwads.

[The_SloVinator]

After map 20, it goes downhill, especially map 27.

[Koko Ricky]

I found that I only like Final Doom on the Playstation. Both episodes are kind whatever on the PC when you've got 64 goddamn maps to slog through.

[Rayziik]

I've never completed TNT because I can't play it long enough to do so.

[SaladBadger]

TNT definitely embodies a different feel of mapping that isn't as popular today, or at least things have gotten better since. As much as I love the novelties of things like warehouses with crate conveyor belts and the ever-so-famous TNT truck, many maps just ultimately feel like they didn't work out. Tried themes that the mappers and resource set both just weren't really able to pull off convincingly.

 

Also after playing it in co-op with a few friends, we have decided that the mapper Drake O'Brien is a sadist who wants to watch people suffer. agh.

[ImpieEyez95]

So I viewed this thread when it was originally posted last night, and then played some of TNT (currently on Map 15 - Dead Zone) -- some maps I liked, others i didnt :/ 

[ReaperAA]

11 hours ago, Fonze said:

I thought the final episode of TNT was awesome and had some of the best levels of the iwads.

 

Here is something u don't see everyday. I respect ur opinion nonetheless.

[rehelekretep]

i really like TNT; so much that i played the whole thing without saves, and i ENJOYED it!

demos

Edited December 15, 2018 by rehelekretep

[Spie812]

My current stance on TNT is that it's very much a product of its time. The maps were made in 1995, and for the most part they look and feel that way, which both helps the mapset and hurts it a lot. I feel like the striving for realistic locations also makes it unique, which again makes some great maps (Map12) and some godawful ones (Map22). I'm not strictly opposed to TNT overall, but I feel like it was immediately outclassed by its contemporaries like Memento Mori or Plutonia.

[Koko Ricky]

It should have just been one level set. 64 is too many to maintain quality throughout.

[Juza]

I hate TNT. The first few levels are only but memorable, and most of the rest is just mediocre. Plutonia FTW

[DJVCardMaster]

Being one of the first ever Megawads is difficult to say it had an horrible design back in the day, the truth is that, as the first Memento Mori, it aged like cheese. Making you feel is a really bad map set for today standards.

I feel I'm being kind of biased by nostalgia, since I enjoyed TNT more than Plutonia when I was younger, but I can recognize all the problems this mapset has. Plutonia looked way more professional and it's weird since it was made by only two people, instead of a team of mappers like TNT, and I think that is the main problem, as with the first Memento Mori, or the first Community Chest (As a newer example), having an unnorganized team of mappers can result on a mixbag of good, average or bad maps. At least TNT tried to mantain a 'plot', but the problem was still there, in terms of good or bad map design choices.
Also I feel like the last part of the mapset was kind of rushed.

[Gez]

Plutonia has better map design, but it feels much more repetitive. TNT is a mixed bag but it has variety.

 

And though some maps are really weak, at least none of them are as bad as Sewers or Betray.

[seed]

3 hours ago, Gez said:

at least none of them are as bad as Sewers or Betray.

 

Habitat begs to differ.

[pcorf]

Also Mount Pain (MAP27) was painful. Very painful!

 

The Disaster Area was not that disastrous as there was much more pain in other places of this mostly uninspired and rushed map.

[TakenStew22]

18 minutes ago, pcorf said:

Also Mount Pain (MAP27) was painful. Very painful!

 

The Disaster Area was not that disastrous as there was much more pain in other places of this mostly uninspired and rushed map.

Fuck that sewage area. My OCD got the best of me and I wanted to kill and collect as many demons and items as possible. But I was running out of radiation suits and my health was draining rapidly. The only truly annoying part of the map imo.

[Fonze]

How is a vanilla level from the 90s that spawns an endless supply of lost souls (which is an interesting mechanic by itself) uninspired? Also, how many radsuits do you need to explore the tiny sewers section with only token enemy placement? The largest let-down on mt pain was the inclusion of an invul sphere for the disaster area; some more health in the tight beginning would have easily mitigated the need for the powerup in that fight, though after getting the berserk pack in the sewers you should be easily going into the fight at 100% hp. 

[TakenStew22]

11 minutes ago, Fonze said:

Also, how many radsuits do you need to explore the tiny sewers section with only token enemy placement?

It`s actually pretty long from what I can recall. I think I was too busy going into other areas which depleted the time of the rad suit. My memory is pretty dim from that point.

[Poncho1]

7 hours ago, Gez said:

Plutonia has better map design, but it feels much more repetitive. TNT is a mixed bag but it has variety.

 

And though some maps are really weak, at least none of them are as bad as Sewers or Betray.

Betray isn't Plutonia. It's a semi official Doom 2 map. 

[Foodles]

to be fair, that mountain that spawns the lost souls looks pretty cool even if the rest of the map is tedious, ugly and dark.

[jazzmaster9]

When people talk about how Doom 2 or Doom 64 is the "worst in the classic series", I casually point towards TNT and just leave it at that.

[valkiriforce]

Only Habitat and Baron's Den are the two levels that don't do much for me; thankfully both are easy to run through so that doesn't really dampen my experience with TNT. I still think there's a lot of great designs and themes to be had in TNT, even though the general community seems to be in disagreement with that (at least that's been my impression of it over the years).

[TakenStew22]

1 hour ago, jazzmaster9 said:

When people talk about how Doom 2 or Doom 64 is the "worst in the classic series"

Wait, people actually say that?

[Doomkid]

21 minutes ago, valkiriforce said:

Only Habitat and Baron's Den are the two levels that don't do much for me; thankfully both are easy to run through so that doesn't really dampen my experience with TNT. I still think there's a lot of great designs and themes to be had in TNT, even though the general community seems to be in disagreement with that (at least that's been my impression of it over the years).

For me it’s a true mixed bag. The opening half has some of my favourite techbase iwad maps, calling it bad would be totally unfair imo - it’s more accurate to say “it’s fun despite being the weakest classic Doom campaign”. Being the worst of a great bunch is still not so bad, at least not to me!