End of E1 gateway scene transferred to Doom 3?

[dsm]

I was thinking about this sequence in the end of E1 of the old Doom, where you enter the gateway and *zap*, you wound up in a dark room filled with baddies that almost kill you before you exit.

I always interpreted this as a series of hallucinations that the Doomguy experienced when he was sucked into Hell (i.e. going through the Phobos gate that took him to Deimos, which is in Hell).

So now I thought that it would be really great to have something similar in Doom 3 when the Doomguy enters the interdimensional gateway (and I'm sure that he will at some point of the game - if not, then it wouldn't be true to the old Doom imo).
Something that clearly looks weird and..hmmm..."hallucinative" with lots of demons tearing away at the player...and then you wake up to find yourself unharmed (well, as "unharmed" as you were before entering the gate) and in Hell.

Thoughts?

[GS-1719]

Excellent idea, however I remember something not too dissimilar from Half-Life which was cool. Given that it would be Hell and demons from Hell, it would be much better.

[AirRaid]

In Half-life, Freeman did actually go to those places. He was in a state of dimension flux or something, and got teleported into zen and back a couple of times.

DSM - Yeah, that's a really cool idea.

[dsm]

Well, it is well known to most doomers that Half life was a ripoff of Doom. I'm confident that something far better can be done in Doom 3.

[Ultraviolet]

DSM: I never did interpret that sequence as you did, but I think that's what I'll start believing now. The way you put that in one of your fan-fics sold me on the idea.

I was considering re-making Doom (WITHOUT episode 4 -- UGH) according to your fanfics. (This is, of course, on the back-burner, like everything else, heh.) I think ZDoom would be perfect for making the scene you speak of have some hallucination-like visual effects. Richo Rosai's "A Warm Place" -- the hyperspace sequence -- comes to mind.

[dsm]

Ultraviolet said:

DSM: I never did interpret that sequence as you did, but I think that's what I'll start believing now. The way you put that in one of your fan-fics sold me on the idea.

I was considering re-making Doom (WITHOUT episode 4 -- UGH) according to your fanfics. (This is, of course, on the back-burner, like everything else, heh.) I think ZDoom would be perfect for making the scene you speak of have some hallucination-like visual effects. Richo Rosai's "A Warm Place" -- the hyperspace sequence -- comes to mind.

Cool, I say go for it :-D

[Ultraviolet]

Cool, I'll be done by about the time Duke Nukem Forever is out...

[DooMBoy]

Heh, I can imagine demonic faces forming out of the air and screaming at the marine, or pure LSD-like demons attacking the marine. Sounds like a plan to me...

[Jeebus]

My interpritation of that bit was the he passes through the gate and gets killed by demons, i always thought he was still on phobos at this point. when he dies he goes to hell which =deimos base...just my thoughts

[dsm]

Jeebus said:

My interpritation of that bit was the he passes through the gate and gets killed by demons, i always thought he was still on phobos at this point. when he dies he goes to hell which =deimos base...just my thoughts

Well, yes, that's another interpretation, but for a number of reasons I prefer my own interpretation (no offence intended):
1) If Deimos was sucked into Hell because of the gateways creating a connection between Hell and Earth, why wouldn't the doomguy just be sucked into Hell? It's not that Deimos "dies" when it's sucked into Hell.
2) If he dies on Phobos, why does he end up on Deimos and not straight into the fires of Hell? You'd think he'd be transformed into a floating, bodyless soul if he died.
3) If he dies and his spirit (presumably) sent to Hell, how come he's still armed with his sidearm? Wouldn't he have lost that one if he died?

Now, and to show you that I don't "disapprove" of your interpretation (recently, people have started to interpret my comments as totally dissapprovement of their views), I'll argument AGAINST my own interpretation too:
1) If the Doomguy is transferred directly to Hell/Deimos from Phobos, why are all his weapons but the fist and pistol gone when he arrives?
2) He loses health during the "dark room" sequence, how could that be if it's only a hallucination?

Let's see how creative you are in coming up with solutions to the above problems :-)

[MRB_Doom]

dsm said:

2) He loses health during the "dark room" sequence, how could that be if it's only a hallucination?

I didn't know that the "dark room" sequence on E1M8 was a hallucination. It seems pretty unlikely that it would be, since you're getting hurt by the soldiers and the demons while you're in there. It might be some sort of mix between reality and hallucination. Also, the Icon of Sin-platform that you walk over, when you teleport yourself into the dark room, that platform has to be a gateway that connects Phobos with Deimos, since Deimos suddenly vanished from space and entered hell somehow. This might be old news, but I'm just trying to get it verified.

[Jeebus]

to reply to the holes in your theory, if he is travelling through an interdimensional gateway its not unlikely that some physical objects may get lost along the way, as for the losing health, think matrix on that one, if the mind believes it is getting hurt how can the body know it is not?

ok as for my idea

1.) If a gateway has been created it makes sense that what is physical in one dimension may not be physical in the other and vice-versa. to explain this a little better let me give an example. take a demon. now a demon in our world may take the form of a spirit (oxymoron i know)invisible and only able to act through people (possesion). Now if we were to go to a hell dimension that demon would have a physical form. so where am i going with this? Well its simple, it makes sense that if a rift has occured between 2 dimensions then the physical properties of things may get mixed up. A human should be a soul in Hell and A demon should be a spirit on earth. we have already seen demons in our reality, why not a living human in hell when they should be dead???

2.)Its possible that the teleporter is one of the gateways that the scientists discovered. normaly it would take you to deimos. deimos is now in hell. it takes you to hell deimos. see above as well.

3.)again see above

RAMBLING :D:D:D:D

[dsm]

What are demons?
Good question. Originally, the word "Demon" meant "Evil spirit", however, words have a way of changing their meaning as the language evolve.

My interpretation of the Doom story is that it turns out that there IS a Hell, but that this Hell is a bit unlike what Christian mythology states.
Firstly, this Hell is in another dimension, not deep under the Earth's surface like Christians have believed.
Secondly, the inhabitants of this Hell, the demons are not evil spirits, but horrid creations of flesh and blood that have simply been spawned through some sort of dark magic.

I like to see it this way: The human scientist have been actively researching teleportation technology in various forms for years, but have only recently chosen a specific direction which has provided actual results - gateways, which they first built four years before all Hell breaks loose. They have steadily conducted various experiments with the device, expanding on it, improving on it, generally taking various measures to build a functional teleporter able to successfully transport people and dead items through the gateway.
The first successful attempts were with dead items - they went through the source gate on Phobos and arrived through the destination gate on Deimos, hurrah, hurrah it works! Not!!!
For when they tried with human test subjects, something weird and tragic happened to them.

What really happened was that the connection between the two gateways, due to the gateways messing around with the dimensional barriers, was unstable and a rift into Hell was opened - a rift which gradually grew bigger and one day the rift grew so large that it basically gobbled up Deimos and turned the gateways into a portal to Hell through which the denizens of Hell could travel freely.

Now a human, when passing through the gateways is subjected to all sorts of weird forces that greatly affects the human brain so that the human senses and sees things that does not happen.

Note then when you start in Episode 2, you are not in the least bit hurt, indicating that 1) you died on Phobos and you are now "resurrected" in Hell as a soul which has kept your physical form(which I must admit that I find the most unlikely theory of these two) or 2) you were hallucinating.

Now, why would there be demons in the interdimensional connection between Phobos and Hell? I've been thinking about that quite thoroughly and I haven't come up with an explanation as to why there would be a physical room with demons in it when travelling through the portal - so it'd be logical to assume that it's nothing but a mere hallucination of sorts created by the warping forces of the transition between our reality and the Hell reality, but a strange hallucination in which the victim feels actual pain too.

These are my thoughts - the ones I think are the most believable, but that doesn't mean that I completely disapprove of the other theory.

[The_Aeromaster]

dsm, deimos is phobos' little brother, the other moon of mars

[The_Aeromaster]

apologies, i thought you meant deimos was a location in hell, which it isn't, but it did get taken to hell so ur right^ the hallucination thing does make sense... as far him losing health, yeah he loses it, but supporting the hallucination theory, he's at 100% when u start e2