throwing the ball around. a community......experiment

[joshthenesnerd]

@wolfmcbeard GZDoombuilder will only do that if you've chosen a format that does that (such as UDMF or GZdoom) it's likely that it chose that format by default

[wolfmcbeard]

Figures, it did something I didn't tell it to do...like Windows update.

[joshthenesnerd]

try loading it with this format 'doom: doom 2 (doom format) '

[wolfmcbeard]

OH....
I see what you were talking about it looking...off
It did indeed default to GZDoom (I typically use UDMF GZDoom Doom 2) so it's going to take a bit for me to fix but I need sleep.
It's almost 12pm for me and I normally go to bed at 8am so let me get some sleep and when I get up, I'll fix it.

[joshthenesnerd]

sounds good. i can't wait to play it

[MTX1996]

You know, I've had a bit of a hankering for wanting to make a short map, but I really didn't know how to start it... good thing I have stumbled upon this thread!

Rules understood, there's just one question I have in mind.  Would I be allowed to use my own MIDI file in this, or no?

[joshthenesnerd]

1 minute ago, MTX1996 said:

You know, I've had a bit of a hankering for wanting to make a short map, but I really didn't know how to start it... good thing I have stumbled upon this thread!

Rules understood, there's just one question I have in mind.  Would I be allowed to use my own MIDI file in this, or no?

whatever extra stuff you wanna add is fine by me, just credit the person who made the midi.

[hedgehog]

@Gothic Although I had fun with the first version, the updated map plays a lot more smoothly.

 

@wolfmcbeard Source port compatibility niggles aside, this was a fun map. Quite brutal, but manageable.

 

I see you plan to release a fixed version, but here is some more detailed feedback in the mean time:

Spoiler

 

Progression was clear and I enjoyed the loop around to get the red key -- although a radiation suit wouldn't have been amiss here.

 

The ambush behind the blue key door made me laugh.

 

A couple of minor criticisms:

 

The alcove with the berserk pack and armour could perhaps have been flagged as secret.

 

The first door you go through locks behind you and then requires a red key (unless a monster opens it from inside). Perhaps this is by design and far as I can tell it doesn't seem to break the map, but it did seem a little strange and unnecessary.

 

Detailing felt a bit sparse at times, e.g. the monolithic grey walls of the corridors where you encounter the Arachnotrons. I also noticed some wonky texture alignment in a few places -- most notably on the door to the slime passage:

 

Overall, though, I definitely enjoyed this.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by hedgehog : Fixed a typo

[therektafire]

@hedgehog "flats" are floor textures in doom, they are different from normal "textures" which usually refers to wall textures. Also flats are forced to be 64x64 unlike wall textures which can be any power of 2

[hedgehog]

@therektafire Thanks for explaining. Since I'm used to thinking in terms of brush-based editing, it's a distinction that would not have occurred to me -- but it makes sense now. I learned something new today too!

[wolfmcbeard]

Alright y, I just woke up..
@hedgehogThanks for pointing out the issues with details and some other things
I'll fix some of the off kilter textures and figure out why the secret area doesn't secret and I'll detail the blue key comproom some more
I know people have port preference so I'll fix the ZDoom (This will be fixed last) version as well as make the....crispy? version.(can't remember if that's op's port)

[wolfmcbeard]

so new problem, when I test crispy in GZDB it works, but won't load on it's own in crispy 5.4.
I don't use Crispy Doom, I try to stick to either PRBoom+ or GZDoom so I'm not sure if there's some kind of configuration I need to do.

[joshthenesnerd]

crispy is just a limit removing fork of chocolate. prboom is close enough for these purposes.

[wolfmcbeard]

Ok, I'll post it after I fix the ZDoom version.

[Dark Pulse]

You probably should decide what sort of feature set you will go for here - Doom, Boom, Doom-in-Hexen, ZDoom, whatever.

 

Definitely will open some possibilities but close others, with whatever you choose.

[wolfmcbeard]

Alrighty, I think I've got this these fixed up nice, I still couldn't get CrispySpite to work in it's intended port, but it does indeed work for PRBoom+ (tested with PRB+ 2.5.1.4)
GZSpite is of course for GZDoom[and probably other "Z" ports] (tested with GZD 3.6.0)

Here it is...

Spite.zip

[joshthenesnerd]

57 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

You probably should decide what sort of feature set you will go for here - Doom, Boom, Doom-in-Hexen, ZDoom, whatever.

 

Definitely will open some possibilities but close others, with whatever you choose.

i did decide. in the first post i said vanilla format.

[Dark Pulse]

13 minutes ago, joshthenesnerd said:

i did decide. in the first post i said vanilla format.

I did miss that.

 

But you also missed there only being two rules when there's three. :P

[joshthenesnerd]

2 minutes ago, Dark Pulse said:

I did miss that.

 

But you also missed there only being two rules when there's three. :P

never decide how many things are in the list before you write the list. otherwise you will forget how many things you said were in the list and just expand it.

[Dark Pulse]

Just now, joshthenesnerd said:

never decide how many things are in the list before you write the list. otherwise you will forget how many things you said were in the list and just expand it.

Good advice to live by in general.

[joshthenesnerd]

@wolfmcbeard i will look at your level today, and then i will have to be silent on this topic until Thursday (i will give feedback on the map before the end of the day)

[hedgehog]

@wolfmcbeard I've played the fixed version of your map. Lots of little improvements, which add up to a better experience overall (more below). And I'm happy to be able to play the map in PrBoom-plus.

Some more detailed feedback...

Spoiler

 

I really like the exposed/loose panel you added in the Arachnotron corridor. It's a small detail, but adds a lot of character.

The properly aligned texturing on the door to the slime passage of course looks a lot better, but then the texture starts repeating at the top. It would have looked far better if the size of the door matched the size of the texture (which could probably be achieved by making the door slightly recessed):

 

...and some perhaps overly nitpicky feedback -- feel free to ignore:

Spoiler

 

There are in fact a few places in the map where textures could similarly match map geometry a bit better and/or be better aligned. In the same room as that door, for instance, if those protruding studded metal panels were resized slightly and the panels lined up with the edges, the entire room would look much cleaner.

Another example is near the button at the end of the walkway over the slime pit:

And when using a texture (or flat, I guess) that resembles ceiling lights, it's usually a good idea not to cut the image off in the middle of one of the lights:

I don't know if I should have pointed any of this out. It's arguably not that important and most players probably won't notice these things while running through the map.

 

I'm just wondering how necessary it was to create two versions of the map -- in particular, whether it was necessary to create a separate GZDoom version. I mean, it's very admirable that you went to all that trouble, but to the best of my knowledge, if you make your map PrBoom-compatible and don't use any arcane hacks/engine exploits, it should automatically be playable in (G)ZDoom (but not the other way round). Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

For what it's worth, I tested CrispySpite in GZDoom and it runs perfectly fine.

 

 

[wolfmcbeard]

I saw those and have no idea why I didn't try to fix some of that at least, but they're small things that I think I can live with...untill I can't.
I figure I'd ask as well since I'm here if I can boot this map into UDMF format to use in my own project.

[joshthenesnerd]

i'm testing crispy spite in crispydoom and the button that in the second room doesn't open anything still, and it leaves me stuck. please, fix that.

edit:

after shoving it into an editor, i see the problem. the zombieman is in a sector smaller than he is, so in vanilla, when it tries to lower he gets the sector stuck

[wolfmcbeard]

2 hours ago, joshthenesnerd said:

the zombieman is in a sector smaller than he is, so in vanilla, when it tries to lower he gets the sector stuck

That sucks, I didn't know the sector would get stuck.
I'll move the sector outward a bit and put him between.
At least that does work on ZD and PRB+

Edit:
I also addressed a repeating door texture on the red key path...
Let me know if that worked...

CSpitefix.zip

Edited December 24, 2018 by wolfmcbeard

[joshthenesnerd]

@wolfmcbeard alright, i finished up the map. i liked the layout. although, i felt like the compspan texture was a little repetitive and there was a spot next to a light past the red door that was startan when it probably was supposed to be another texture. and room with the aracnotrons felt really flat for how big it was. i know there were enemies in upper platforms, but  the playable area felt really flat. and i really liked the lighting in the blue carpet room past the red door.

spitedemo.zip

[wolfmcbeard]

I haven't done anything in that format before, I'm so used to UDMF that I couldn't make heads or tails of some things, so it was a good learning experience.
I'll probably work on it in my free time to address things like the aracnotron room's dullness 

[CaptainResident]

Question before I jump into this: are there any limits on what I can utilize in the map? (Ex. No dynamic lights, colored sectors, etc.)

Or is it entirely free?

 

I read you're using Crispy Doom and so I'm wondering if it'll make any problems.

Edited December 31, 2018 by CaptainResident : Clarification.

[joshthenesnerd]

On 12/30/2018 at 7:27 PM, CaptainResident said:

Question before I jump into this: are there any limits on what I can utilize in the map? (Ex. No dynamic lights, colored sectors, etc.)

Or is it entirely free?

 

I read you're using Crispy Doom and so I'm wondering if it'll make any problems.

we're working with limit-removing vanilla. so, vanilla format but don't worry about visplanes and various other limits. dynamic lights and coloured sectors are mostly a UDMF thing.

[Death Egg]

I remember there being one of these before. Never got finished sadly.