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obake

How to Deal with Mapping Sadness

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On 12/23/2018 at 6:00 PM, Doom_Dude said:

I also lost a lot of work I wish I had saved. My Hexen 2 project... I think I just one day deleted it all but that fucking Qoole editor ate some of it too. I wish I had kept the stuff Qoole didn't barf up, even for the sake of just walking around those maps again.

Damn, that sucks.  I remember those screenshots back on one of the internet excursions when I went trawling for any Hexen 2 maps I could dig up from anywhere, and thinking they looked cool but figuring that it was an abandoned project that never went anywhere, still sad to hear how it actually happened.

 

As to the thread at large, I didn't really consider myself to have much of this problem but reading through it has kind of made me realize just how much stuff I put off, especially in the realm of more esoteric stuff, due to thoughts of "nobody will care" / "people will only bash it".  Got to give a particular nod to @Doomkid's bit about the stuff that shows a lot of visible popularity not being the only stuff that anyone out there might want.  Certainly found that last time I went in on a "nobody will even care about this" project in spite of that (not something Doom-based), I got more response out of it than I ever expected.  Guess my takeaway should be that there's no such thing as a "pointless" project if it's something you've got an interest in doing.  What interests you probably interests someone out there too.

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Yeah Ettingrinder, it does suck. I was hoping at the least that Razumen would get Ravenhurst finished but I think he got as far as releasing a demo map and that was it.

 

I know one thing for sure. When it comes to feedback, I wish I had never read any of the comments on /idgames. Really it's just awful.

Edited by Doom_Dude

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16 hours ago, Doom_Dude said:

I know one thing for sure. When it comes to feedback, I wish I had never read any of the comments on /idgames. Really it's just awful.

I feel terrible that this was your experience. For me, the feedback I've received, though critical, has also been constructive. Hopefully you'll receive nicer critiques in the future.

 

What are some of your wads? Perhaps I can help provide better feedback. :)

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Ahh don't feel too bad. My stuff gets better feedback these days. I just got irritated from re-reading the negative comments on my first release which was called Vilecore, a 32 level megawad made with DoomCad I released in 2000. I already know all the issues with it and I don't mind critical feedback, but when somebody says it's worth nothing, it pisses me off. It also helps that I'm not drinking rum today. ;) Plus I'm fixing it all in a couple projects I'm working on including Vilecore 2 so the anonymous, asshole minority can go inflate some cacos. ;) Thanks tho.

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@Doom_Dude I think there are a couple of demo versions of Ravenhurst out there at least but neither of them more than short couple of levels.  It does seem to be abandoned as far as I can tell.  As far as any Hexen II adventures with real meat to them go I think Fortress of the Four Doors and Mission Pack by Rino (and its sequel) are still the best bets.  There's also that one that Bloodshot is making although that's also in WIP status for now.

 

As for idgames reviews, well, the old idgames review system had major problems due to both allowing anonymous unregistered posting (so anyone could go on and shitpost/troll with nothing to stop them but IP bans, which are an iffy proposition in a world where hiding one's IP is not only possible but something that has a contingent who thinks it's something everyone should do) and there being a twitter-style character limit (so if you wanted to say anything actually thoughtful about a WAD half the time you ended up getting told it was too long).  It's somewhat better nowadays when those things have been removed.

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On 12/27/2018 at 2:38 AM, stewboy said:

However, I'm surrounded all day by other composers. In addition to the other students studying there, every week we get either a professional composer in to talk about their work, or a staff member giving a lecture about a composer too famous to bother to come and talk about themselves in person.

 

I think this is crucial to any artistic or technical endeavour, be it making music or making Doom maps.  Surrounding yourself and interacting with people who you consider to be better than yourself can only improve your work.  I don't mean just playing what they make from afar, but actually talking to them about it.  A finished map can seem overwhelming to replicate the quality of, but the reality is the "making of the sausage" is often far less of a perfect, glamorous process than you might find yourself presuming, and the more you get to see that process the more digestible the process is.  

 

Twitch streamers by mappers are an excellent place to start.  My first exposure to UDMF was watching @Dragonfly working on Skulldash.  It broke a down a lot of the mystery of UDMF and how to handle a giant pk3 project like Skulldash.  You might look at someone like @Bridgeburner56's screenshots and think "how do you even come up with something like that?", but watch his streams and it all becomes much clearer, and perhaps even replicatable.  That's what's so awesome about something like the Joy of Mapping: you can really talk through the process of making something and break it down into smaller chunks, and suddenly the whole process becomes much more achievable.  

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@ETTiNGRiNDER I'll have to check out Fortress of the Four Doors and Mission Pack by Rino (and its sequel) since I'm in Hexen mode lately and I never played those.

Edited by Doom_Dude

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LOL @ this emotional support thread! Guys c'mon...

 

Bad /idgames reviews are great! Usually the person is jealous, has a personal gripe, decided to be a trollolol that day, or is mentally diseased (lots of them about)! Laugh at them, hohoho!

 

If you can't take the peasants jeering at you and throwing rotten vegetables you might as well keep to yourself whatever steaming pile you were planning to subject us all to.
 

The safest way to not be let down is to have extraordinarily high standards so that you know all of the possible criticisms before they appear. Be your own harshest critic - I am and will always be. Mapping for praise is contemptible, praise will come when you release something of quality that you yourself recognize to be different and striking and ingenious. I get more dopamine from recognizing various successes in vitro than I do from anyone rating my stuff post release. Those come after the fact and are nice but they mostly confirm what I already know, both positive and negative.

 

Back in the good(?) old days trolling was the norm and millennial fefe's were crushed hourly... and it was worse on IRC. ;)

...

...Where's Darknation? He would set you all straight.

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I think calling it “sadness” may be a bit of an exaggeration because I wouldn’t describe it as sadness but as a mix of fatigue and frustration, for me at least.

 

I think there’s a lot of merit to being your own harshest critic, you’ll definitely make better stuff that way, but sometimes being too critical can stifle your progress and that’s when it’s time to say fuck it and just make what you like. I also agree that mapping for praise is contemptible, it’s the ass backward approach.

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2 hours ago, iori said:

LOL @ this emotional support thread! Guys c'mon...

 

Bad /idgames reviews are great! Usually the person is jealous, has a personal gripe, decided to be a trollolol that day, or is mentally diseased (lots of them about)! Laugh at them, hohoho!

 

If you can't take the peasants jeering at you and throwing rotten vegetables you might as well keep to yourself whatever steaming pile you were planning to subject us all to.
 

The safest way to not be let down is to have extraordinarily high standards so that you know all of the possible criticisms before they appear. Be your own harshest critic - I am and will always be. Mapping for praise is contemptible, praise will come when you release something of quality that you yourself recognize to be different and striking and ingenious. I get more dopamine from recognizing various successes in vitro than I do from anyone rating my stuff post release. Those come after the fact and are nice but they mostly confirm what I already know, both positive and negative.


While I agree that mapping solely for approval from others is probably not the best approach, I don't think not giving a shit about what anyone says about it is the best approach either. Mappers will always get better if they receive actual constructive criticism from their peers and are receptive enough to it. Of course, there's a difference between actually good feedback and calling someone's map a "steaming pile", but that much should be obvious. I'm definitely my harshest critic, but that can often be to a fault since it's very easy to discourage yourself and get caught up in only the negatives. Holding yourself to that kind of standard I think is only going to make you think that you'll never be good enough; that is, if you're actually not an arrogant blowhard and think that every single thing you make is gold and should be worshiped, but I think most people around here are actually more humble and helpful than that ;p

 

2 hours ago, iori said:

Back in the good(?) old days trolling was the norm and millennial fefe's were crushed hourly... and it was worse on IRC. ;)

...

...Where's Darknation? He would set you all straight.


Yeah, man. It's almost like being a contemptuous dicksnot to people is looked down upon or something.
 

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This was the first feedback I received after releasing Dark Encounters.

Spoiler

Unfortunately this turned out like most GZDoom map sets that people make.

I could only play about the first three or four maps before I simply got bored of playing. Maps generally consisted of very large, open areas (or very small for some maps) jammed pack full of monsters. The layouts of these maps were bland and often linear with a ton of useless and ugly looking 3D floors and slopes. Limiting yourself to Doom 2 textures only also didn't aid you since Doom 2 has some of the worst textures out there.

...and then, a few LONG weeks later...
 

Spoiler

 

This one is a gem. This is my first comment in this forum after browsing and enjoying it for years.

I have invested at least 15 hours of gameplay into Dark Encounters using BD v21 and GZD v324. Honestly, I was sold on the first level. The placement of weapons, ammo, monsters... everything is very well done. The levels can become massive and sprawling, but I only found myself running around not knowing how to get somewhere I needed to be a couple of times.

Lastly, the architecture is, in my opinion, simply incredible. As much as I love running through hordes of ambushing monsters blasting countless rounds with a chaingun and seeing my screen filled with red and green, I also have a great appreciation for attention to detail in architecture. You did a great job of keeping the levels very interesting and dynamic in a way. I never found myself getting bored with what I thought (I hardly ever read descriptions) was a megawad made from levels created by a group of devoted people who truly understand the original game.

 

What did I learn?...People have very different tastes. Make what you enjoy playing.

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On 12/23/2018 at 3:48 AM, obake said:

I would also ask other experienced members how they've overcome mapping sadness, too.

 

Honestly, I don't experience it.  For me, other people's stuff being great is something to celebrate, because it gives me something great to experience.  I might think  "Wow, I wish I had done that", but the emotion associated with that thought is admiration, not sadness.

 

It may help that I know a lot of people in the creative arts, and that's not a career you can stay healthy in if you feel resentment or sadness over the successes of others.  

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1 hour ago, Doomkid said:

I think calling it “sadness” may be a bit of an exaggeration because I wouldn’t describe it as sadness but as a mix of fatigue and frustration, for me at least.

 

I think there’s a lot of merit to being your own harshest critic, you’ll definitely make better stuff that way, but sometimes being too critical can stifle your progress and that’s when it’s time to say fuck it and just make what you like. I also agree that mapping for praise is contemptible, it’s the ass backward approach. 

 

Generally that's the time to take a break and come back to it later. Sometimes weeks to months.

 

37 minutes ago, Sparktimus said:


While I agree that mapping solely for approval from others is probably not the best approach, I don't think not giving a shit about what anyone says about it is the best approach either. Mappers will always get better if they receive actual constructive criticism from their peers and are receptive enough to it. Of course, there's a difference between actually good feedback and calling someone's map a "steaming pile", but that much should be obvious. I'm definitely my harshest critic, but that can often be to a fault since it's very easy to discourage yourself and get caught up in only the negatives. Holding yourself to that kind of standard I think is only going to make you think that you'll never be good enough; that is, if you're actually not an arrogant blowhard and think that every single thing you make is gold and should be worshiped, but I think most people around here are actually more humble and helpful than that ;p

 


Yeah, man. It's almost like being a contemptuous dicksnot to people is looked down upon or something.
 

 

My post was mostly tongue in cheek, but there is value to being told to pull up one's trousers and get back to it. Not giving a shit when appropriate. Many maps are subjectively steaming piles, not that I'd ever review them as such. We have others to do that for us ;).

 

I've released at least one steaming pile under an old alias, and still have several from over a decade ago that I sit on, probably for historical reasons. I remain grossly dissatisfied by many of my releases, but never to my own psychological detriment.

 

Trust yourself more than anyone else. You already know what is right and wrong when you play other's maps, apply that 'review' to your own as well.

 

In my early days I used to look at the /newstuff reviews and be in awe of the Wad of the Week screenshot, but I would never feel like having a 'cry' over them. I would definitely wonder how to create such a thing, how ponder how to get there from where I was, but never be discouraged by someone else's good work.

 

Maybe an overall lack of confidence from people comes from overall inexperience coupled with Too Much Internet, maybe some nature vs. nurture swinging to the latter, who knows?

 

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I just have a few things to say.

Mapping is supposed to be a hobby, and if you're stressing out over your "hobby", either:

1 - Mapping is not for you 

2 - You're not contempt enough with yourself, and that's more to the personal side of everyone, and you might need to fix that.

At least that's what I think.

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I figured something out.

 

There's a few base mapping themes, i believe. You can go for hellish themes, medieval themes, tech themes, etc. You gotta map in what you think is best for you. And it doesn't matter if your theme doesn't fall in the categories of hell, tech or medieval at all.

 

I found my mapping style because i got inspired by skulldash' vibetech map, which has all the neon lines and all. I personally enjoy mapping in that kind of theme, and that kind of theme only (for now). Map in the theme you think you like mapping in, and you could choose to specialize in it, or just to expand the themes you map in the more experienced you get..?

 

You don't map because others like it, you map because you like it. I figured it out now.

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Wanted to provide another perspective on this topic regarding Mapping Sadness. It took me a while to understand but I think it's sometimes hard to realize that when we look at some amazing maps out there, that we enjoy playing, we don't consider the possibility that the creator faced challenges and self-doubt. If we play a great map, the mapper must have been confident, greatly talented and had everything figured out from the start. This is not the case and actually a fantasy. We are aware of our own flaws, but not of everybody else's flaws or struggles as a mapper. Perhaps some of the mappers we idolize had a hard time as well, and were not confident of their own creations. This video on Impostor Syndrome might help to summarize, hope it helps:

 

 

 

 

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"healthy ways to get noticed and receive recognition."

This is the issue. If the creation of your art is predicated on this you will not be happy and you probably won't make anything good, you'll burn out and give up before that. The best way to get noticed is to make something good. You just keep trying. Dragonfly and whoever else didn't release a Cacoward worthy wad right out the gate.

A lot of the sadness comes from comparing yourself to others. You just have to recognize that, that it's fine other people are better and more popular than you, because as I said before, your goal shouldn't focus on being better than other mappers or being more popular than them.

 

On a slightly different note, my quick fix for mapping sadness is a good puff of weed. Gets me over the hump when I really love the idea of mapping but can't bring myself to.

Edited by hella knight

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The only competition is with oneself. The one of being able to improve with each new map, until finding a own style ... at the same time helping those that are the same, my problem is free time that I have to play or make things ... and I know that to make a map for a player takes hours between creation and testing (I made a pack that went unnoticed) so I ended up making levels for deathmatch and replay them countless times

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I, in my turn, do not worry about my mapping, and in particular I don’t care that some people don’t like my maps. But I would like to create for example new texture set from the scratch. When I have the necessary resources to create, the mapping goes much better.

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My take on the subject in the form of a bad joke is this:

 

 

 

I deal with mapping sadness by sapping madness out of SSG-blended demon blood smoothies. Ba-dum-tshh

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My mapping career started with Plutonia 2, which was a super bad idea in hindsight since my maps were that of a complete beginner alongside giants like Gusta or Eternal. For a while I felt super proud about it and would show my stuff to friends and family (yeah lol). But after that I did a total conversion inspired by the works of Tsutomu Nihei (sprites, textures, sounds, everything) with 30 Boom format maps, and while they were in my opinion some of my best stuff to date, I ended up completely loathing the project after letting a few people try it, to lukewarm feedback. I was burnt out and basically ignored Doom on purpose to forget about this work and everything around it for a while. I'm not even sure I have a remaining backup for this.

 

But I ended up coming back years later because Doom is part of my DNA at this point. And that's when I started looking back at my Plutonia 2/PRCP stuff. My sensibilities evolved a lot by that time, and needless to say I was unimpressed. Then I stumbled upon Ander Johnsen's reviews who burnt them on a stake (well, mostly pl2-15), and as hurtful as it was to read, I had to agree.

 

To be quite frank, these failures became an obsession and would suck out of me the joy of Dooming altogether for a while, which was probably a byproduct of being depressive in general and the accompanying anhedonia due to real life happenings, but still, something that's just plain unhealthy on its own.

 

Nowadays it's getting okay-ish I guess. I stopped kicking myself for my past output, and hey, the other day I was watching other people speedrunning them, and I thought they are actually not atrociously bad, just not up to par for a project such as Pl2. There are parts I was surprised to feeling it was cool, but of course many bits where I thought "I'm never doing this again, this is dumb on so many levels". And duds happen in most mapsets, I can live with it now. I still consider them garbage, but in regard to my actual pet peeves and sensibilities rather than as a character defining personal failure. As silly as it sounds, this is where I stood for a long time. 

 

It took me a while but I realized it's the sign that this process is simply moving on and maybe, why not, the first step toward making better maps and hopefully accepting that it will be a long quest toward doing something I will be proud of, one day. Or just anything else really: it's not just about Doom, since I have many creative activities in general nowadays, like drawing or actual gamedev.

 

In a sense, these lessons learned with Doom are useful in many areas of one's life. Hopefully you agree with this and never think you wasted hours of your life on this hobby. I think no one did. Even whoever put thousands of duplicates of their one room wad with hundreds of Mb in unused textures in a zip file, for the heck of it. Maybe they sell toilet seats millions an unit as art pieces or something thanks to their experience with idgames trolling.

 

Fuck them though.

 

tl;dr: don't kick yourself too much if you grow a dislike for your output, try to take it as an opportunity to create something that meets with your evolving sensibilities. Embrace the mistakes and the learning that comes from them. I'm a good self-help guru.

Edited by Kira

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Study, experiment, practice. Without experimentation cannot come innovation. Without practice cannot come proficiency. So long as you put forth some effort, you are better than the bottom 50%. Without study cannot come understanding. DooM mapping adheres to some strict rules, that if disregarded, result in a map that cannot even be loaded, much less played. There is no specific style, as maps for DooM differ greatly from maps for GZDooM, so comparisons aren't easily made. Not like in traditional art, where there are objective points in quality that must be achieved to be considered good. If you have no grasp of perspective, anatomy, light and shade, or color, you'll never get anywhere outside of a hugbox.

DooM is less nerve-wracking. What you make is something that is more than a picture or a song, but an experience. If anything, it feels like a more efficient means of expression, as you get more out of it without nearly as much mandatory input.

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So, I think I want to push back some against the purely individualist idea of: "Don't worry about other people, map because you want to map".

 

I see where it comes from, and I think it can be a helpful response against the bad feelings of "How can I ever measure up against My Favorite Known Mapper?"

 

But the premise is flawed because it's not a competition, it's a conversation.

 

Don't think about how you can measure up to wads like Eviternity or Elementalism, think about what you can say in response to them. You aren't the creators of your favorite works, but your favorite works give you an experience that the creators cannot have fully envisioned. They aren't you. They haven't learned the same things you have learned, had the same joys or had the same traumas. They haven't grown up around the same architecture or landscapes or culture, or if they have, they haven't seen them through the same eyes. They haven't absorbed the same art you have. Even if they have, they probably didn't like or dislike the same exact things about them that you did.

 

If someone says something to you, most of the time you wouldn't stand there and not say anything merely because you couldn't say what they said as well as they said it. You would probably, hopefully, respond. You could say: "no, you're wrong, because X". Or, "I feel that, but I can riff on that from my perspective". Or, "Oh, that reminds me of this other thing!". You might just say: "That's good shit". Even then, how you say it is how you said it, and not how anyone else would've.

 

When you encounter great maps (or even bad ones tbh), instead of asking "How can I measure up?" or "How can I compete?", ask:

What does this make me feel?

What context does this new experience give me?

What does this work say that others did or did not before?

How does this change my perspective on my own ideas?

What questions does this work seem to imply asking about: buildings, spaces, demons, hell, etc? How can I answer?

How does this person see Doom, and how does that affect how I see Doom?

What questions does this make me ask?

 

Think about how you see Doom. Think about your own strengths, tastes, philosophies, and life. Think about how you can apply that stuff outside-of-the-box to mapping. Chances are your life outside of doom is far more applicable to mapping than you realize. If something in life makes you feel a certain way, map about it. Doom is originally game about hell, and most of us are probably suffering one way or another. And nobody can map about that better than you, because they simply aren't you and don't know what you are going through.

 

To be clear, I don't mean you need some deep message in your works (although you can if you want!). I also don't mean you have to be explicit, concrete, or straightforward about how you do that. You don't need to write a story. The linedefs you choose to draw can express how you feel. Just merely, you mapping at all is enough to give a message and make you a part of the conversation.

 

I also don't mean you have to work hard to make your work particularly unique. That will happen on its own if you just think about yourself as part of the conversation in this way. You don't have to be avant-garde or groundbreaking in order to do that. You just have to find your own perspective to add to the community!

Edited by anotak

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I take pleasure to bring this thread up.

 

For my part, I feel a certain "mapping sadness" but in a different way. I started mapping 3 years ago and I don't regret any map. I think I have made good or very good maps and have a great potential in mapping. I had little but good feedback on the few big maps I made. I think my main flaw is my variable motivation, preventing me from being really productive.

 

On the other hand, I have the feeling that my taste in mapping might make me fall into the category of "underground" mappers rather than big successful mappers.

 

The first thing is that I probably make the mistake of diluting my best maps in community projects, especially those where the chance of getting a cacoward is quite low or even nil (not because of their quality, fortunately, I could quote for example Mayhem 2018 which appeared in Not the cacowards by Not Jabba). It's not to be mean, it's just that I feel like I'm not succeeding in creating my own project and thus joining someone else's project.   I can't set my own rules.

 

There is also a contradiction between my will to stand out by trying to offer good quality maps and my will to create strange maps with gimmicks or a rather high difficulty. I think my most popular map is "Goetia", a map I made for the "Tangerine Nightmare" project. It's not my best in my opinion, but it's probably my most popular map for the general public. To sum up, I probably make good maps but more demanding so that they are not more accessible than the maps of Eviternity for example.

 

To sum up, I'm afraid to "grow badly" in the doom community and to end up in the category of underground mappers if I follow the famous rule "Do what you want to do, don't take into account the opinion of others". If you want to become a successful mapper, I guess you should be more inspired by the work of Dragonfly or Skillsaw rather than TimeOfDeath or gggmork for example, without wanting to be mean because they figure among my favorite mappers.

 

I really hope I'm wrong about what I said. I must have said stupidities. Anyway, it's a bit the perception I have now.  Even though the quest for recognition is inevitable for many people, I still map for fun and just set to myself the goal to finish each project I started.

 

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One very important word has not come up in this discussion.

 

Curiosity.

 

If your core motivation for getting into mapping stemmed from anything but curiosity,  you will not find fulfillment.

 

You would be surprised at how much happiness can be achieved from answered questions.

 

How do I make a door? How do I make a lift? How do I make a set of stairs?

 

How does Doom work?

 

If you're in it for awards, you're in it for the wrong reasons. Awards require the approval of others, which you may or may not get. It's not up to you. 

 

Rewards on the other hand are totally up to you. Rewards of knowledge and understanding. Rewards of building a working map that incorporates all you know.  Pulling off complex technical editing tricks properly can be a lot of fun in and of themselves. 

 

That's really the key.  Fun.  If you're  not having any fun then you aren't being rewarded.  If you aren't having fun then your maps won't be any fun to play. 

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5 hours ago, Roofi said:

To sum up, I'm afraid to "grow badly" in the doom community and to end up in the category of underground mappers if I follow the famous rule "Do what you want to do, don't take into account the opinion of others". If you want to become a successful mapper, I guess you should be more inspired by the work of Dragonfly or Skillsaw rather than TimeOfDeath or gggmork for example, without wanting to be mean because they figure among my favorite mappers.

I think an important question to ask is: Why do you dislike the idea of being what you call an “underground mapper”?

 

TimeOfDeath is a genius of Doom mapping, no sane person is going to argue that. You talk about a will to stand out, I assure you mappers like ToD and gggmork do just that. It doesn’t, or at least shouldn’t imo, matter that their turf is less played than Eviternity, or Sunlust, or any other uber popular wads. (ToD/ggg wads are still pretty popular anyway, just in smaller circles.)

 

I hope you continue to “grow badly”, as you say, or as I prefer to think of it, making stuff that comes from a place of passion for mapping rather than a passion for name recognition (barf). Don’t skimp on the gimmicks because “this might not win a cacoward”. Firstly because popularity just doesn’t seem like to aught to be your main goal in mapping, but secondly and far more importantly because you’re sort of trampling all over your own vision due to a (possibly flawed) assumption of what you think the cacoward judges might say if they played your maps and happened across these 'gimmicks'. For all you know though, that gimmick that you swapped out for something “more generic and palatable” might have been the very thing to get the attention of the cacoward team, and you’ve gone and erased it in the pursuit of homogeny because you thought it wasn’t Skillsaw-ish enough or something like that.

 

Please don’t fear being different and don’t fear being “underground”. Leave the Dragonflying to Dragonfly, the Skillsawing to Skillsaw, and for that matter leaving the ToDing to ToD and the gggmorking to gggmork. Just be Roofi. Unfiltered, unabashedly.

 

Of course, this is just my opinions on the matter. Ultimately you have to do what you want and how you want, and if your main motivator is mapping popularity, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that (despite my personal feelings about it). It kind of pains me as a seasoned-but-firmly-oldschool mapper to hear a talented wadsmith talk about shelving their own interesting/unique mapping urges in favour of trying to be more like some other mappers. Forget being like others - know your strengths, play to them, hone them. Sure it’s great to play popular wads and take some notes, but not at the expense of your mapping identity. We need more mappers who “break all the rules”, not less. Just my 2 cents!

Edited by Doomkid

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5 hours ago, Roofi said:

On the other hand, I have the feeling that my taste in mapping might make me fall into the category of "underground" mappers rather than big successful mappers.

I'm not sure what manner of "success" you're talking about, really.

 

Sure, having like 100+ or 1000+ people play your stuff and tell you how awesome it is makes for a nice "morale boost" and all, but there's a flipside to that, or rather multiple ones.

 

  • To begin with, you need to meet some arbitrary standard of what's "nice visuals", meaning you end up spending additional time on crafting maps that are "attractive" to the vast majority of people, just to be able to throw some screenshots in your OP that will make people click the download.
     
  • Then, in order to keep people going, you also need to make sure your maps cater to the most common denominator on the gameplay side of things, because if they don't, people will tell you that, others will read it, and then perhaps decide not to have a look at the maps. And god help you if you made the maps too difficult for the average consumer.
     
  • If we assume you got the previous 2 points "right", you also need to "promote" your stuff, to make sure as many people as possible discuss it. Because how else are you gonna get that sweet sweet "rockpapershotgun-article", or a "high profile stream" by some popular pleb, or whatever?
     
  • Oh yeah, also don't expect any money for all of this. At best you receive a couple bits on twitch, so you can buy yourself a pack of instant-ramen-noodles in case you stream at all. Being a "successful mapper" doesn't really pay any bills, is all I'm saying.

 

 

So, if you're a mapper with niche interests, this translates to the following:
 

  • "Eccentric" visuals are probably off-limits, so don't even think about making something "ugly" on purpose, because "ugly" ain't mainstream
     
  • Your idea of what's interesting gameplay is irrelevant. Niche stuff isn't popular by its very definition, so you betray your own ideals in an attempt to cater to "the masses™"
     
  • And you also need to promote a product you spent weeks/months/whatever on, without even being able to actually stand 100% behind the content you created. Never mind that creating something you yourself don't enjoy is sure fire way into whatever it is that people call "mapper's block".

 

Worth it?

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I at one point had a dosage of mapping sadness. And only a few days ago have realized what was causing my sadness through mapping. For me it was feeling the need to stick with a style that I didnt really like making.

 

Heres a room that I made a few months ago:

Spoiler

GqSsOYj.png

I posted this image and when people liked it I felt rather good. However that good feeling was short lived. Yes, while I did like how others enjoyed the screenshot. I didnt enjoy making the room itself.

 

Recently (A few days ago as of this post) I tried a different, more sector-heavy type style and made this:

Spoiler

2b8frTB.png

I also posted this. But what made it different was not only that others liked the room, but I liked it too.

 

I feel as if some mappers feel adhered to sticking to a certain style of mapping that might make them feel uncomfortable. My advice is to play around a little bit with the editor, you will eventually find your mapping "groove". Also I feel as if some people are wanting to make their maps appealing to others. But how I see it is that you should make what you want to make regardless of what others think of it. In that case I make others my second priority when it comes to mapping. 

 

Hope that might help.

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