For the love of god, stop speeding up monster projectiles

[loveless]

7 minutes ago, Avoozl said:

How does one find out if something contains something they don't like about it? People aren't psychic you know.

  

Once the player starts coming across things they dislike then it's time to stop.  That doesn't mean it's time to push through with gritted teeth.

[Avoozl]

But what I was trying to say is you have to first try something to find out that it has something you don't like about it. When you said "isn't it infinitely easier to simply not play things you find distasteful" you didn't exactly imply what you said now.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Avoozl

[loveless]

18 minutes ago, Avoozl said:

But what I was trying to say is you have to first try something to find out that it has something you don't like about it. When you said "isn't it infinitely easier to simply not play things you find distasteful" you didn't exactly imply what you said now.

  

Nor did I feel the need expand upon that because it should be very apparent.  If you were unable to glean that bit of info from my post...I am not sure what to tell you without being incredibly detailed.

[VanaheimRanger]

52 minutes ago, loveless said:

...isn't it infinitely easier to simply not play things you find distasteful?  

  

Avoids the whole mess of starting a thread with paragraphs of unintelligible nonsense.

My opinion pretty much.  If you don't like it, there's plenty of WADs that don't do that sort of thing...play those instead.

 

But I guess it's just more fun to start a flame post condemning the practice and effectively upsetting a large portion of forum users who do enjoy it, right?

[Avoozl]

9 minutes ago, loveless said:

  

Nor did I feel the need expand upon that because it should be very apparent.  If you were unable to glean that bit of info from my post...I am not sure what to tell you without being incredibly detailed.

You could've said "not keep playing" instead of simply "not play".

[VanaheimRanger]

2 minutes ago, Avoozl said:

You could've simply said "not keep playing" instead of simply "not play".

Are we really having a semantics war?  The statement was plainly clear to me...

[Avoozl]

Just now, guitardz said:

Are we really having a semantics war?  The statement was plainly clear to me...

Yeah you are right, I should pretty much just drop it now.

[Spectre01]

19 hours ago, Cynical said:

narrow decoration things in field-of-play (as opposed to on raised terraces or such where they won't fuck player movement), and all sorts of other snafus that demonstrate that "modern" mappers consistently fuck up things that 20 years ago's mappers were consistently getting right.

That feel when you're zooming around the map at SR40/50, doing some sick S, U, 8, and O strafing, and some brainlet modern mapper puts some trees in the playing area that you bump into and die to a swarm of extra fast projectiles. Oy gevalt!

[Zalewa]

This thread doesn't look much different from a heated political debate. I don't think anyone will end up convinced here as the view on the topic depends on a personal taste. There have been some borderline insults here too ^{(unsurprisingly)}. Personally I think Avactor is not a good map set. Aside from other problems, the fast projectiles don't work there very well not because they're fast but because of the level design.

[VanaheimRanger]

11 minutes ago, Zalewa said:

This thread doesn't look much different from a heated political debate. I don't think anyone will end up convinced here as the view on the topic depends on a personal taste. There have been some borderline insults here too ^{(unsurprisingly)}.

That was my thoughts.  If the OP had presented his argument in a more constructive way this could have opened a civil dialogue where we could actually discuss the benefits and detriments of custom assets in Doom.  

 

But instead they decided to cry and insult like a child and get a lot of people riled up.  I actually do have an opinion on the use of fast projectiles and other custom assets...but this isn't a civil place to discuss them whether they agree with the OP's opinions or not.

[Linguica]

[⇛Marnetmar⇛]

On 12/25/2018 at 8:18 PM, Cynical said:

which, in open layouts, removes the player's ability to play with aggression confidently 

 

So basically the argument here is "I suck at doom and refuse to get better so everyone should cater to me"

[Woolie Wool]

Cynical show us your video of Valiant map08 *evil laughter*

[Pure Hellspawn]

If he's complaining about fast projectiles - he should not be playing FPS games.

 

Hitscans are instant and have been around since before DOOM. And the chaingunner, of course is a major threat.

[Firedust]

If you're shit at dodging projectiles that everyone else seems okay with, maybe it's not the mappers' fault but you just suck at the game, mate. Are you one of those people that complain every time they can't beat something on the first go on UV? Probs. Pull your head out of your ass and learn to play the stuff. Or don't play it all. Nobody is forcing you to. There are a bazillion wads out there without dehacked monsters.

 

Also, saying that wads post-2008 have been getting worse is a laughable statement. People have been incredibly creative with visuals, monster placement, and what not for the past 7-8 years. If you look at old stuff like MM or Requiem or even some AV maps, they easily lose to stuff like Valiant, Ancient Aliens, Struggle, BTSX, etc. in every department. Not saying the classics are bad (AV is one of my fave wads ever), but they haven't aged well. Both visually and in terms of how they play.

 

5 hours ago, guitardz said:

 

But instead they decided to cry and insult like a child and get a lot of people riled up.  I actually do have an opinion on the use of fast projectiles and other custom assets...but this isn't a civil place to discuss them whether they agree with the OP's opinions or not.

Agreed. Should probably do a separate thread on altering monster behaviour/adding monsters that could make the gameplay more challenging or just different.

[TheMightyHeracross]

Hmm

[Doomkid]

I guess all the ire being directed at the OP is a result of how hyperbolic the post is. If not, then all I see are people getting pissed that someone prefers different gameplay than them. Really? Is reading a critical review of something you enjoy really that hard to stomach? Is it that unbelievable that someone might dislike a part of something (fast projectiles) but enjoy other parts (excellent mapping) enough to keep on playing? Is it such a problem that they then express their opinion honestly and frankly? I mean sure, disagree and discuss, but all this “na m8 u just suck” type shit being thrown around by several posters now is so fucking gradeschool and vapid. Pull your heads in, people. Aren’t we better than this?

 

*looks at literally every thread on the topic of slaughtermaps*

 

Ah, that’s right, we’re not at all better than this and exaggerated arguments over sweet fuck all are our bread and butter and we’re hardly a rung above the average YouTube comment section. I forgot for a minute there. Carry on then!

[Deadwing]

9 hours ago, Firedust said:

[...]

Also, saying that wads post-2008 have been getting worse is a laughable statement. People have been incredibly creative with visuals, monster placement, and what not for the past 7-8 years. If you look at old stuff like MM or Requiem or even some AV maps, they easily lose to stuff like Valiant, Ancient Aliens, Struggle, BTSX, etc. in every department. Not saying the classics are bad (AV is one of my fave wads ever), but they haven't aged well. Both visually and in terms of how they play.

[...]

1

1

 

Yeah, I'm quite the opposite to the OP. I find difficult to enjoy older mapsets (with very few exceptions such as Scythe and Plutonia for example). Most of them really make me get bored really quickly (AV, for example). While modern mapsets like Valiants isn't really my style, I would rather play it any day instead of most of the old stuff.

[Not Jabba]

4 hours ago, Doomkid said:

I guess all the ire being directed at the OP is a result of how hyperbolic the post is.

 

Absolutely. I think we all get a little tired of people coming in here and demonstrating that they're way more interested in complaining and slinging shit at people than engaging in a discussion or learning more about the game, especially when the same person maintains that same negative attitude consistently. I've seen a lot of good discussion happen on this board over the years, but it only takes one person to screw it up, and when that person is the OP, there is little room for a real discussion to even begin.

 

(ETA: But insofar as you're referring to skill-shaming "git gud" posts specifically, then I agree with you. They are very much the counterpart to "I can't beat it so it must be unfair," and I get tired of them pretty fast.)

Edited December 27, 2018 by Not Jabba

[Gez]

I seem to have missed the post that pointed out that in Valiant's case, you've got an entire alternate version without gameplay changes that you can play instead.

https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/megawads/valve

 

[Woolie Wool]

Everybody except the OP was having too much fun playing the original instead.

[[McD] James]

Juza's avatar is very entertaining. 

[Pure Hellspawn]

35 minutes ago, Woolie Wool said:

Everybody except the OP was having too much fun playing the original instead.

 

I'm sure many have played both versions. But not the OP. Most likely, he plays the vaccinated version with -nomonsters on. Hey, there's still the environment he's gotta deal with!

[Xaser]

8 hours ago, Doomkid said:

I guess all the ire being directed at the OP is a result of how hyperbolic the post is. If not, then all I see are people getting pissed that someone prefers different gameplay than them.

 

The big reason for the ire, I'd wager, is precisely because the OP has gotten pissed that someone prefers different gameplay than them. :P

 

Not saying the snarko responses are any better, mind you, but hate breeds hate.

[BigBoy91]

Anything beyond -fast is a bit unnecessary, but I'd still be willing to give it a shot.

[Nirvana]

17 hours ago, Xaser said:

 

The big reason for the ire, I'd wager, is precisely because the OP has gotten pissed that someone prefers different gameplay than them. :P

 

Not saying the snarko responses are any better, mind you, but hate breeds hate.

I think most of the ire is due to OP’s insistence that he just knows how Doom should be, while someone like Skillsaw apparently has no clue.

 

Always exhausting listening to people sitting on the sidelines of creativity, yelling at the people actually making things (for free, I should add) without any attempt to create anything of value themselves. 

[Nine Inch Heels]

51 minutes ago, Nirvana said:

I think most of the ire is due to OP’s insistence that he just knows how Doom should be, while someone like Skillsaw apparently has no clue.

 

Always exhausting listening to people sitting on the sidelines of creativity, yelling at the people actually making things (for free, I should add) without any attempt to create anything of value themselves. 

In all fairness, Cynical has published two maps, both of which I played and found fun. In fact I think he should consider making something new when he has the time, because in my opinion his maps are worthwhile.

What irks me is this notion of "I have the correct taste, and ya'll who don't agree are objectively wrong". I don't care if he thinks that valiant is bad, but each time he unpacks his "Hell revealed is g.o.a.t." sledgehammer of an argument, I wonder who superglued that pair of glasses to his forehead.

 

If he doesn't like people's individual takes on an old game and just said as much, then I'd argue nobody would even consider to leave some clawmarks on him in the first place. But since he presents his point of view like he does, he has to be willing to deal with the types of responses he gets, or change his ways. It's that simple.

[Plusw]

I feel like people are taking this complaint a little too personally. It seems every time someone asserts their opinion here people feel the need to break out the "People can do what they want!" and "Stop saying your opinion is fact!" cards. Certainly it goes without saying that some people may disagree with the op, right? There's no need to be so defensive when someone posts something you don't agree with, simply discussing the reasons WHY you agree/disagree is enough.

[42PercentHealth]

On 12/26/2018 at 6:23 PM, loveless said:

  

Once the player starts coming across things they dislike then it's time to stop.  That doesn't mean it's time to push through with gritted teeth.

 

I'll just never play any maps that contain PEs or lost souls then. :-)

 

My life just got so much brighter!

[VanaheimRanger]

@Plusw It's not his opinion that's bad, it's the way he presents it in a long rambling post that's clearly designed to annoy people.  My opinion is actually pretty similar to his, but I was annoyed by reading it.  I actually couldn't play more than the first 2 episodes of Valiant before having to switch to Vaccinated Edition to get rid of the custom enemies...but I don't think Valiant is bad because of it, I think it's great, just not my taste. 

 

His statement that, because Valiant used these custom imps with faster fireballs it automatically makes the whole wad crap is childish, and makes me want to see what kind of wads he has made.

 

@Nine Inch Heels Send me links to those maps because I would honestly like to give them an objective look.