Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
dpkonofa

How to play all the IWADs with the right options automatically?

Recommended Posts

I used to use Boom/PRBoom/Choco to play DooM, DooM II, Final DooM, Heretic, Hexen, etc. pretty regularly but have completely switched over to ZDoom/ZDoomGL since my last play through. As I started playing, I noticed that it was allowing me to jump and crouch in Doom/Heretic and crouch in Hexen (which, as far as I remember, weren't the way the originals played). In the options, there's a setting for jump and crouch where the choices are Yes, No, Default and I have all of these types of options set to default and yet it's still allowing me to use these while playing. I was under the impression that setting these to default used whatever was standard for that game unless someone specified the ability to jump/crouch in the WAD's MAPINFO or ZMAPINFO lumps.

 

Why am I able to jump/crouch when set to default and I how to I automatically set these options to make sure that I'm not inadvertently enabling something that would allow me to unknowingly cheat/break these original IWADs? I guess I can just look up what was allowed in each IWAD but I thought the whole point of the "Default" setting was take the guesswork out so that the game would just behave as intended...

Share this post


Link to post

It should also be noted Doom games never allowed mouselook in the originals, but that's a bit more understandable of a thing to have on by default.

 

I wonder if there's any way ZDoom could modify the maps on loading to work with jumping? Like setting an invisible wall in Doom II MAP07 so you can't jump onto the ledge and beat the level until the monsters have been killed. Every time I play on Zandronum servers there's always that asshole that skips the map by doing that.

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, dpkonofa said:

I was under the impression that setting these to default used whatever was standard for that game unless someone specified the ability to jump/crouch in the WAD's MAPINFO or ZMAPINFO lumps.

 

GZDoom doesn't works this way for backwards compatibility with old maps. None of the games supported crouch, and jumping is Hexen and Strife only. You could use a launcher or batch files to load the original games with the settings you want via -exec of a custom config file with the proper console commands ("sv_jump 1" and "sv_crouch 1"). That's what I can think of.

 

1 hour ago, Death Egg said:

It should also be noted Doom games never allowed mouselook in the originals, but that's a bit more understandable of a thing to have on by default.

 

Especially for the games that did support keyboard freelook. (fun fact: it's possible to feed the dos executables of heretic and hexen mouse movement to use mouselook via an external control driver. See the application ravmouse) Does GZDoom have an option to have pitchless flight like vanilla, Chocolate, and Eternity?

 

1 hour ago, Death Egg said:

Every time I play on Zandronum servers there's always that asshole that skips the map by doing that.

 

I did that once, when I was like twelve.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, dpkonofa said:

ZDoomGL

That's kind of old.

 

2 hours ago, dpkonofa said:

I was under the impression that setting these to default used whatever was standard for that game unless someone specified the ability to jump/crouch in the WAD's MAPINFO or ZMAPINFO lumps. 

No; because the ability to restrict jumping came after the ability to jump, so there were maps made for ZDoom that expected you to jump that didn't have a MAPINFO that explicitly allowed jumping.

 

And since this was done this way, you can expect that 99% of ZDoom maps that require the player to be able to jump and/or crouch do not explicitly allow jumping and/or crouching in MAPINFO, since by default it's allowed.

 

I'll also note that ZDoom is not unique in that: other ports that introduced the ability to jump likewise did not introduce the ability to disable jumping until later, if at all.

Share this post


Link to post
51 minutes ago, Gez said:

there were maps made for ZDoom

 

52 minutes ago, Gez said:

99% of ZDoom maps

 

I'm specifically referring to the default IWADs for these games, not custom PWADs. I'm looking to play DooM/Heretic/Hexen as close as possible to the original games as far as the gameplay goes but I would like to use the updated visuals provided by these source ports. Since I've not played some of these games (Hexen, for example), I didn't know what functions are or are not allowed in the originals so I was hoping that ZDoom/GZDoom (way to be pedantic) had a switch that forced compatibility for gameplay. Unfortunately, it seems the only switch is to force original DooM compatibility and that doesn't really work for the others.

Share this post


Link to post
55 minutes ago, Gez said:

ability to restrict jumping came after the ability to jump

 

Absolutely not. The original games did not even include jumping so the original source ports restricted jumping as well.

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, dpkonofa said:

I'm specifically referring to the default IWADs for these games, not custom PWADs.

Yes; but I'm answering why the default settings are as they are. To be clear, the capacity to finish a map more easily than originally designed was deemed a lesser offence than the incapacity to finish a map at all.

 

2 minutes ago, dpkonofa said:

Absolutely not. The original games did not even include jumping so the original source ports restricted jumping as well.

You cannot restrict something that doesn't exist.

Share this post


Link to post

After Gez’s explanataion it makes a bit more sense, but I always hated how “default” in ZDoom and all it’s forks was not real default. It would be nice to have default (ZDoom) and default (vanilla) as two distinct options.

 

As it is, to get really real vanilla dmflags in ZDoom-based ports you either have to painstakingly calculate the dmflags on your own or download someone else’s so-called vanilla CFG and hope they got it right. One of the absolute best things about ZDaemon is the dmflags calculator which has “true OS” for deathmatch or co-op as presets. No fiddle fucking around, just real default Doom settings, pre made and ready to go. Other ZDoom forks could take note.

 

Maybe I’m just out of date and all the ports DO have this now though, that’s also a possibility.

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, m8f said:

I cannot resist linking this: [Shortcut Menu] Vanilla Essence 4.

 

This is kind of the opposite of what I'm looking for. This disables all the graphic effects and engine fixes that the source ports give (like removing the infinite height from enemies and sprites) but leaves the gameplay settings to whatever they are in ZDoom. I'm looking for a way to play with all the graphical effects and engine fixes but without adding things like jumping, crouching, or FOV changes. I looked through the screenshot of the settings on the last page of that thread and I couldn't find the control/key settings anywhere.

Share this post


Link to post
16 hours ago, PaquoCastor said:

 

You could use a launcher or batch files to load the original games with the settings you want via -exec of a custom config file with the proper console commands ("sv_jump 1" and "sv_crouch 1"). That's what I can think of.

Just in case you missed it OP, this was the solution that came to my mind too when reading this thread. If there's no integrated menu option within the port you're using, this solution should allow you to launch the IWADs you desire and execute a config file that sets the correct parameters for that IWAD. I personally already use such files to launch IWADs and custom WADs for convenience. If you are on a Unix-like OS you can use shell scripts for the same purpose.

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, vadrig4r said:

Just in case you missed it OP, this was the solution that came to my mind too when reading this thread. If there's no integrated menu option within the port you're using, this solution should allow you to launch the IWADs you desire and execute a config file that sets the correct parameters for that IWAD. I personally already use such files to launch IWADs and custom WADs for convenience. If you are on a Unix-like OS you can use shell scripts for the same purpose.

 

Where do you determine the proper CVARs for each IWAD? Having never played some of these games in their original form, I'm not sure which allowed crouching/jumping/whatever combination of settings...

Share this post


Link to post
19 hours ago, dpkonofa said:

 

Where do you determine the proper CVARs for each IWAD? Having never played some of these games in their original form, I'm not sure which allowed crouching/jumping/whatever combination of settings...

Crouching is not in the games mentioned in your OP, and only Hexen and Strife have jumping, so:

 

Doom, Doom II, Final Doom, Heretic: sv_jump 1, sv_crouch 1

Hexen, Strife: sv_jump 2, sv_crouch 1

Edited by vadrig4r : cvars corrected

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, vadrig4r said:

Doom, Doom II, Final Doom, Heretic: sv_jump 0, sv_crouch 0

Hexen, Strife: sv_jump 1, sv_crouch 0

 

Actually, for *ZDoom 0-default 1-never 2-always.

 

So, sv_crouch 1 for all games and sv_jump 1 for Doom and Heretic.

 

Also, the ridiculous option. Separate configs that only have binds for keys you want to use for when playing vanilla levels. I wouldn't recommend this personally, but it's an option.

Share this post


Link to post
On 1/3/2019 at 3:38 PM, vadrig4r said:

Crouching is not in the games mentioned in your OP, and only Hexen and Strife have jumping, so:

 

Doom, Doom II, Final Doom, Heretic: sv_jump 1, sv_crouch 1

Hexen, Strife: sv_jump 2, sv_crouch 1

 

Are there any other options that I would want to enable/disable in order to get a more vanilla gameplay/control experience?

Share this post


Link to post

Some vanilla flags which haven't been mentioned here:

 

-limiting lost souls to 21

 

-turning on limited air movement

 

-turning on plasma bump

 

-infinitely tall actors

 

By adding these in addition to "no jump, no crouch, and no freelook" you'll be much closer to a real vanilla gameplay feel. I can't find the direct commands for these flags sadly, but they're pretty much crucial to not breaking certain parts of the iwads.

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

-turning on plasma bump

I don't think I've ever heard of this one. Mind explaining me what this is?

Share this post


Link to post

Ability to grab stuff that you can't actually touch. Named after the plasma rifle that you find on MAP01 in multiplayer on the floor light that opens the rocket launcher secret. With Doom's flawed collision detection, you can pick it up from the side, without riding the elevator to the top and then jumping down on the light. This also applies on a lot of other maps, so it's a bit reductive to call it plasma bump.

Share this post


Link to post

Yep, the name is really just a colloquialism since map01 is how people found out about the bug. It really has nothing to do with the plasma rifle specifically. On Dwango5 Map01 the same trick can be used to grab the BFG through the grate near the exit where the imp was locked up on entryway.

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, Doomkid said:

Some vanilla flags which haven't been mentioned here:

 

-limiting lost souls to 21

 

-turning on limited air movement

 

-turning on plasma bump

 

-infinitely tall actors

 

By adding these in addition to "no jump, no crouch, and no freelook" you'll be much closer to a real vanilla gameplay feel. I can't find the direct commands for these flags sadly, but they're pretty much crucial to not breaking certain parts of the iwads.

 

This is awesome... now what about Heretic and Hexen? What do I need to enable/disable to get the most accurate version of that?

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×