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Doomkid

ROWDY RUDY'S REVENGE - 100% vanilla! (Now on idgames!)

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Quick question, what does the .exe included in the download do?  Is it necessary to run this particular TC, or can I just drag-and-drop the enclosed .deh and .wad files onto, say, ZDoom and ignore the .exe?

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Yep, the exe is just there for vanilla. This way you can drag and drop the files to your vanilla Doom2 directory and simply type “rudy_v1 -file rudy_v1.wad” to play. In ZDoom, you don’t even need the DEH as it’s also embedded in the wad. I should have specified!

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Whoa, back to 1997!

The only gripe I have so far is the intermediate exit door closing and not being able to go back and explore the level. I am on map07 and just fell into an 'inviso-pit' of monsters as I was fighting the arch vile by the red key.

 

I am playing on HMP and like the balance especially the armour quantity. And those fire cacos are great at melting your HP -- scary.

 

Used Eternity -complevel 3

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This looks like the type of stuff i'm into c:

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i love the helmet of the terminator in the chaingunners

 

im gonna download now!

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Looks interesting, reminds me of stuff from the 90ies, but I fell into an inescapable pit in map02 by the blue key and stopped playing after that.

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Posted (edited)

Definitely gonna try it out.

Edit: Quick question, to report any bugs, do I just post them here (with a spoiler tag) or do I DM you?

Edited by Juza

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Loving it so far! Found a thing though, not sure if it qualifies as a bug or not; on Map06 you can see this guy's arms sticking through this box. 

Spoiler

Screenshot_Doom_20190106_125553.png

 

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Now that was awesome :D
Again you pulled of a mapster based of 90s partial conversions and again you succeded at that!
The level design is classic doom with a bit of cool unique ideas sprinkled in (Map10,and the last chunk of Map05 come to mind)
The enemies don't add much to the gameplay but they twist the classic formula in a unique way
A nitpick of mine is the fast ramp up of enemy counts since it feels like we turn from Doom E1 to serious sam a bit abruptly
Isn't Rudy a girls name?

Basically,good job Doomkid :)

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Hey all, thanks so much for the feedback, it helps me immensely. Posting bugs out in the open is just fine. It sucks to hear people are getting stuck in the illusio-pits, those are supposed to all be active well before you get to them. Thanks again everyone.

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Posted (edited)

Just started playing it. In the very first map at the start I noticed you can click on the switch that's hidden in the ground before you go to the switch that raises it. You have to know it's there in the first place. Just something to be aware of.

 

Also the switch for the beserk secret only works once. It's a bit of a drag if you decide to grab it later and the switch was a one off. Umm, same thing with the secret in map02, you can only trigger it the once.

 

Some maps seem to have an abundance of health. On Map 4 I counted 8 medikits when I was done (playing through on HMP) (tho I didn't start the map from a pistol start).

 

Made it to map 7. Pretty fun set of maps. :D

Edited by Doom_Dude

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Posted (edited)

Enjoying this so far. 

 

Looking through map02 again without monsters, I noticed that the window near the blue key is impassable. That blocks what looks like a makeable jump, leaving you stranded in the inescapable nukage pit instead. Since the jump is so telegraphed as logical -- the blue key door is even right there -- I think the window should have a midtex barrier (or a similar solution). 

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I see now, that must be the same spot kristus got stuck. Definitely gonna fix that up.

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Any chance for some bullets at the beginning of first map, please? On UV, poking everything with the sharp end of the stick gets old pretty fast!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, R13 said:

Any chance for some bullets at the beginning of first map, please? On UV, poking everything with the sharp end of the stick gets old pretty fast!

I don't think it's really necessary, the maps have been balanced around starting with no supplies. You only have to kill (or even just run past) 4 or 5 imps before finding a pile of ammo in the doorway of the very first building you walk into

 

Quote

Also the switch for the beserk secret only works once. It's a bit of a drag if you decide to grab it later and the switch was a one off. Umm, same thing with the secret in map02, you can only trigger it the once.


Some maps seem to have an abundance of health. On Map 4 I counted 8 medikits when I was done (playing through on HMP) (tho I didn't start the map from a pistol start).

 

Somehow I missed this post earlier - the secrets are meant to be one-offs but if that's too annoying I just might change it. I also don't know what I was doing with the medkits on map04, I think they were intended to only be on Easy mode or Multiplayer or something and I just forgot to change their flags (derp)

 

Keep the feedback coming my friends, it's very helpful stuff.

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15 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

Somehow I missed this post earlier - the secrets are meant to be one-offs but if that's too annoying I just might change it. I also don't know what I was doing with the medkits on map04, I think they were intended to only be on Easy mode or Multiplayer or something and I just forgot to change their flags (derp)

 

Keep the feedback coming my friends, it's very helpful stuff.

Ok I kinda figured that might be the case with the one off secrets.  Personally I would prefer any secrets to not be one offs but that might be just me.  ;)

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Doomkid said:

For some reason, Chocolate Doom spits out the .deh file every time with a parsing error. No idea why, this must be

a bug on Choco's part as it works fine with DosBox/Doom2.exe/Dehacked.exe or Crispy Doom.) 

Chocolate Doom crashes because of this line in the DeHackEd patch:

Text 7 8
SLIME16FLOOR4_8

"FLOOR4_8" is 8 characters, but the maximum replacement length is only expected to be 7.

dehacked_001.png.6cd7a505bb07bfa20546b913f8acdbe1.png

 

However, this patch does work in DOS DeHackEd because it does something peculiar: the extra characters actually overwrite some characters used for the next string. Note the highlighted offset below after rudy_v1.deh is loaded.

dehacked_003.png.5b5362afcec211a95ab43f67833b2488.png

 

What was previously "RROCK14" has been reduced to "K14". The text offset has also changed from "6524" to "6528". Because this FLAT is no longer valid, the DOS executable will crash when it tries to load the intermission screen after MAP11. However, that won't happen in this PWAD because the included MAP11 has no exit.

 

Crispy and other ports won't crash because they likely ignore the character limit imposed by the stringent memory address limitations required by DeHackEd. That's not to say that Chocolate shouldn't crash, but this is technically an invalid patch as DeHackEd itself doesn't allow this kind of string extension, but it does manage to load and run the patch regardless with no negative consequences until the MAP11 intermission screen crash (which is avoided anyway). An interesting edge case to ponder, all things considered.

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Pardon the double post, but I've just run across a completely unrelated issue that causes Chocolate Doom to crash but not the original exe in DOS. In MAP08, the elevator using the STEP2 flat on its floor (sector 86) renders with the tutti frutti effect in DOS.

doom2_003.png.46f1f6f5e710e81385f8ddc29b1e9815.png

 

The thing is, I don't think I've ever seen the tutti frutti effect appear on a flat before. As far as I can tell, the problem has something to do with there being a texture, a patch, and a flat all named STEP2.

 

In Chocolate Doom, looking at this sector immediately results in this crash:

choco_step2.png.a7c692b84c2bb265991f436c7511a3b7.png

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Thank you so much for your findings and your explanation as to how this patch basically gets away with murder in DosBox and Advanced ports, yet crashes Choco Doom. Both of them are strange cases. The fix for this will be trivial but it always fascinates me when the vanilla EXE actually allows something that Chocolate Doom does not. It makes total sense that Choco would not be able to read strings that are too long since vanilla can't either but still, the fact that all the planets just somehow aligned to let it pass in everything but Choco is kind of hilarious.

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Just played through it very casually in sequence, Expert skill, Crispy Doom, and stopped at the finale because I didn't know what was the intended progress there, the switch triggered something that I couldn't notice (didn't matter because I fell in a tiny inescapable hole behind the BFG pillar and died). This has been incredibly fun and somehow refreshing, lots of variety in terms of enemy compositions, interesting new monsters, particularly the flame cacodemon. I dig the FreeDoom-ish aesthetics besides the hud and letters. 

 

As for personal critiques, I think the hitscanners could be toned down a little bit, I don't mind getting hit or dying from them, but they seemed to exist in every single room/fight, which usually stole my attention from other enemy types that also proved to be dangerous enough, like the rpg dudes and caco cousins. I should clarify I didn't feel annoyed in the slightest by any encounter in particular involving zombies somewhere, but there were times I just wanted to get in a room and dance between fireballs and whatnot and always a sergeant/chaingunner popped from somewhere to chip me, and another one, and another one, that felt more samey than tedious. By playing continuous I prevented so many close calls from hitscan in mixed groups, if that says something. My first death happened in map 09 from teleporting in the middle of a mixed group, run to a door in search for health and found yet another trope of sergeants, which offed me. That moment I realized how deadly was the start of that map, and how lucky I got a third time that the sergeants missed most of the shots. I played more carefully after that, still a great level. 

 

About map 10, the archvile behind the door at the platforming room was quite a cheap move imo, couldn't avoid the hit and had to turn god mode to see the rest of the room because there was no health around. I'd suggest to remove him, or make him teleport in the starting area if you want to keep him, since you don't have any way to engage him relatively safe. I'll figure out the finale someday.

 

One more thing, in map 08 the exit door worked in odd ways, when I pressed it the first time it didn't open, only made the sound of opening. However, after a couple second it opened by itself. Huh?

 

Anyway, this is really good content, congrats on the release!

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Thanks a ton for the detailed feedback, it's very helpful. I'll go through 2 or 3 maps and make sure there are some projectile-only encounters, when you playtest each map on it's own and not in sequence it's hard to notice the samey battles starting to happen but I think it's an excellent point for me to consider. Thanks again!

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20 hours ago, Doomkid said:

"High Resolution Textures w/o the High Resolution"

 

Finally, a solution for those who want to use custom textures but don't want to use any custom textures.

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Playing through the updated version in GZDoom. Made it to map 5. So far so good. I noticed Doom Builder shat out a warning that there's no SS_End marker in the wad.

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Here's a pack of FDAs (skill 4) for the whole set, using PrB+ (-cl 2) and V2 of the WAD: http://www.mediafire.com/file/zu87sdzugd78b3x/rudy_v2_DotW_FDA.zip/file

 

Enjoyable mostly, I thought, and seems more coherently compiled than Shovelware Adventure did as far as the DeHackEd work and such goes. TBH I found most of the textures butt-ugly, viewed in a vacuum, but I sort of get the sense that's half the point, and the dirty, grainy look does help to capture the essence of an early-era partial conversion or shady 'standalone' game. The difficulty spike that starts on m08 vs. everything that has come before is perhaps a mite severe, but in truth I kind of *like* severe spikes such as that. Others' mileage will doubtlessly vary, of course. A few of the maps I went through a second time where I saw some potential issues, many comments here are based on this and general supposition.

 

Speaking of, has m08 appeared anyplace else? I'm 99% positive I've played it somewhere before, probably in a CP or perhaps some sort of miscellany compilation. Also probably my favorite of the maps in the set, incidentally, along with m09. That........thing.......you did with m08's exit door, though, assuming it's intentional and not some weird happenstance, well.....I'd like to think I'm pretty open-minded about weird progression stuff, but this is something I really can't recommend. It looks legit broken, not like a puzzle, and I half the suspect the only reason I didn't quit out of it with that assumption is precisely because I remembered playing this map (and seeing the same thing) at some point in the past.

 

Others have commented on m10 a bit, my two cents about the arch-vile directly behind the door into the northeast flesh room is that it simply being there is perhaps reasonable enough, but in the context of the room you're entering from and the map's general thing balance, it is probably more conducive to hassle than fun. I got lucky and pain-stunned it with the plasma gun (you put a 'zerk pack in a weird-ass place like that and I tend to figure there's something bad on the other side of the door), but many won't be so lucky, and the only ways to seek cover are to leap down to the left and take shelter behind the entrance into the pit room, or to fall in the pit and soak damage from the lava down there. Because you have to wait on lift-platforms to get out, if the vile is aggressive you can be put in a situation where you have to soak a lot of damage just keeping out of sight and waiting for an opportunity, and on the other hand if the monsters get shut behind the door you have to roll the dice and run up there to open it again, hoping things work out more conveniently. My suggestion for keeping the overall idea the same but making it less janky would be to make sure the monsters can open the door from the other side once awoken (so if you've had to retreat/paid the trap toll you can at least snipe them down from a better position), and perhaps put the berserk pack somewhere less obtrusive, so that it could be used as a health top-up as needed.

 

The IoS in this same map is fairly straightforward, and those that don't simply nope out of it immediately just for being an IoS should be pleased to see that the challenge is mostly in combat/execution rather than figuring out what to do at all (I was glad that there was no lift/shot-timing aspect in play once the Eye was finally vulnerable, that would've been a step too far for fun's sake IMO given how inconvenient it apparently is to get back to the firing point). Regardless, I think the room could use at least another radsuit, and maybe even two; health/ammo seem fine. I would *strongly* suggest removing those pairs of prop-gates (like, a head-pole and a torch close together on one side so you have to edge around them rather than run between them, you know what I mean?) on either side of the peripheral walkway, though. I can't tell if this is an intended obstacle or an aesthetic inconvenience, but it's really bad for flow and can lead to some serious obnoxiousness in combination with (infinitely-tall) monsters in the pit below. Another possible way of softening the whole thing slightly without changing the overall design would be to make each section of the central snaking path a lift, perhaps, rather than just the first.

 

More general thoughts: I think the DeHacked changes all balance out pretty well, personally, though in an ideal world I might want more of a visual distinction between the 'weak' commando (which is presumably replacing the SS soldier?) and the strong/normal one. Of the the new creatures I most liked the orange pyro-cacos, which are fairly intimidating (that flame breath is scaaaaaarrry, even if often not particularly damaging) and the stealth-imps, which I found much harder to keep track of than a traditional specter, and thus a much stronger inflection on the gameplay. I did not particularly care for the burst-rifle (though it's obviously more effective than the classic pistol), and in general I felt the set only started to get going in m03 or so, where chainguns begin to be more common. On that point, one of my favorite things about the set writ large is how much it emphasizes the chaingun (and plasma in some maps) rather than being traditionally shotgun-dominated most of the time, and indeed the scarcity of shells in early maps is a lot of what helps drive the action, even if it does betoken perhaps a little too much center-stage time for the rifle (in my opinion).

 

The decision to start the player with no ammo from a fresh spawn is an interesting one, as well, presumably meant to mirror certain other PCs/TCs of note, and leads to a few 'pistol-starts' being a fair bit more involved than one might immediately expect. Mostly I think this plays out fairly well (people who prefer pistol-starts should expect/enjoy having to occasionally deal with this kind of thing), though the bayonet-start in m01 probably makes a bad/grindy first impression (I would suggest starting the player with a berserk pack just for fun's sake, honestly), and there are points where the balance potentially gets stretched uncomfortably thin as a result. The most prominent example of this in my playthrough was m05; it presents a binary fork in the path early on, and if you go into the dark warehouse before taking the detour with the plasma gun/armor vest, the feel and flow of the level are seriously impacted (significantly slowed in this case). This kind of 'unbalanced' placement can be very interesting in more open, sandbox-y, or nonlinear maps, but in more generally linear levels as seen in this mapset I think they are something more of a diceroll. In this particular case I think you could find a reasonable halfway solution without greatly altering the design/intention by leaving the plasma gun where it's at, but having an additional armor or a bit more extra conventional ammo along the other part of the split, as well.

 

As pertains to the overall balance, it did strike me that even as monster counts rose most of the real challenge came from a relative scarcity of ammo/health/armor in some combination rather than from trap/fight design per se (m08 is again something of an exception here), which can at times play off problematically against the attrition/hitscan-oriented flavor of much the action, enforcing a slower/cover-shooting/door-camping style of play and making even minor-negative RNG constellations in certain traps potentially disastrous, particularly where you drop or teleport the player amidst groups of pre-activated hitscanners, ala maps 07, 09, and 10. The aim for more of a cover-based/gunfight-based style of play is a valid enough design goal assuming it's what's intended, of course, but this is nevertheless something to keep in mind.

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