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valkiriforce

Akeldama - First Beta Released!

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Idk I may reconsider the ssg, I added it because I replayed my own map and found a lot of the combat tricky without it. I may just move it to a secret since I played with that idea

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On 6/1/2019 at 2:11 PM, Classicgamer6 said:

I don't believe I can finish my map in time, recently I had to build a new computer and lost some data I had backed up including all of my Akeldama map progress. This is also not helped by general lack of interest in mapping and Doom at the moment. I am willing to contribute in some other fashion if that is possible.

 

I'm sorry to hear this; so is there no surviving progress on the map? If that is the case I may have to make something for this slot, unless anybody else wants to quickly step up to the plate. I still want this project to carry on in progress without slowing down. I also need to catch up on playing some of the newly submitted maps myself.

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Played the first episode. Excellent maps so far, good job guys! Provides a good challenge without being frustratingly unfair, and also looks good too without being tackily over detailed. I really have nothing to criticize except maybe the overabundance of chaingunners in some maps, map07 for example. If I had to pick a favorite, I'd go with map04; great non-linear map with a good flow.

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All right, I've sent the map out to you.

 

@Seybsnilksz I was wondering if there were any specific maps you wanted to compose a MIDI for? I've still yet to arrange some of the ones I've got, but maybe for starters you could do something for MAP10? The placeholder track it currently has should be a good indicator for what I was going for in that map. If you have any other suggestions or ideas I'd like to hear them.

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Finished the last few maps of the first episode. Perhaps a sliiight dip in quality than the previous 9 maps but I stilled enjoyed them, although I'm sorry to say I didn't care for map11. If I could describe it in one word it would be schizophrenic. The map felt very random and directionless, rooms were a jumble of detail and I found myself having a hard time differentiating one room from another. On top of all that the map was also incredibly massive and I found myself becoming extremely impatient and almost restless as I played the map for about an hour and still it showed no signs of ending.

 

Aside from my personal dislike of map11 I thought this was a promising start to the wad, though. Congratulations to everyone involved!

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3 hours ago, Count651 said:

Finished the last few maps of the first episode. Perhaps a sliiight dip in quality than the previous 9 maps but I stilled enjoyed them, although I'm sorry to say I didn't care for map11. If I could describe it in one word it would be schizophrenic. The map felt very random and directionless, rooms were a jumble of detail and I found myself having a hard time differentiating one room from another. On top of all that the map was also incredibly massive and I found myself becoming extremely impatient and almost restless as I played the map for about an hour and still it showed no signs of ending.

 

Aside from my personal dislike of map11 I thought this was a promising start to the wad, though. Congratulations to everyone involved!

 

Sorry to hear you didn't like my map. However I don't really see why you would use the word schizophrenic about a map - what does it even mean in this regard? Also, if you have the time, I'd appreciate some constructive feedback, please be specific if you can. After all, constructive feedback is way more helpful. :)

 

I'm a big fan of non-linear maps with many different routes. Am I to assume you prefer linear maps or was there a specific thing you didn't like with how I made the non-linearity? 

 

Also, what was it about the detailing that you didn't like? Also not sure what you meant about the rooms looking the same. And finally, do you prefer short maps or was my map lacking in action or in any other way that made it so boring? Or was it just that it was too lengthy?

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13 minutes ago, waverider said:

 

Sorry to hear you didn't like my map. However I don't really see why you would use the word schizophrenic about a map - what does it even mean in this regard? Also, if you have the time, I'd appreciate some constructive feedback, please be specific if you can. After all, constructive feedback is way more helpful. :)

 

I'm a big fan of non-linear maps with many different routes. Am I to assume you prefer linear maps or was there a specific thing you didn't like with how I made the non-linearity? 

 

Also, what was it about the detailing that you didn't like? Also not sure what you meant about the rooms looking the same. And finally, do you prefer short maps or was my map lacking in action or in any other way that made it so boring? Or was it just that it was too lengthy?

 

I think I'm gonna play through your map again now that I've had time to rest and try again with a fresh mindset. I'll also try to keep a mental note of things in particular to provide some more specific feedback.

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Posted (edited)

@waverider Alright, I gave the map another try and enjoyed it considerably more than my first go, although I did still find it to be a bit flawed. I referred to your map as " schizophrenic " as I was having difficulty finding a way to sum up generally how the map seemed very unpredictable and pretty random/excessive in its detailing and layout. Apologies if this came off as disrespectful, as I had no intention to offend you or discredit your work.

 

I think the absolute biggest issue I have with the map is that it is simply too large. This would become apparent when I would pick up keys ( the red key in particular), and forget where the corresponding doors were located in the map. I would wander around for 10 minute at a time searching for them and eventually stumble upon them by chance. When I first entered the red key room I quickly realized I needed to find another use of the red key elsewhere to raise the bridge, the problem was that I had no clue where this could be and so I found myself running around the map again for quite some time before I stumbled upon it. I highly recommend placing the red key room's bridge raising switch and the yellow bar lowering switch closer to the things they activate so that the player can see or at least hear what they just accomplished by pressing said switch.

 

The acquisition and use of the blue key is the polar opposite of the former as I obtained it right in front of the blue door which completely undermines the purpose of having a blue locked door in the first place. I'm not sure if the blue key was meant to be unobtainable at first and require a switch to be flipped to lower the sector it was on. When I first entered the room it was located in it was already accessible, allowing me to immediately enter the blue door.

 

The fights were generally fine although a bit unstructured perhaps. I felt a lot of encounters boiled down to a large amount of mid/high tier enemies teleporting into a room and forcing me to resort to my most hated tactic, door camping. Door camping is something I usually try to avoid when playing a map as it feels cheap and not rewarding. Sadly it was often the only viable option as many rooms contained too many enemies and provided too little of a foothold for me to run and gun as I would have liked to. A good example of this is the fight outside with the 2 spider masterminds.

 

Upon dropping down into this area I'm presented with 2 masterminds in a very large and open outdoor area with no cover besides the doorway I'm already standing in. At the end of the yard is a cave-like structure housing several chaingunners who are too far away for the game's vertical auto aim to hit, meaning that without mouselook enabled these chaingunners will be able to hose me down before I could get close enough to hurt them. But that was completely out of the question with the 2 masterminds stomping around between me and them; if I dared to step out there to fight I would have been mowed down in seconds by the many hitscan enemies in this large open area. So rather than a fun and fast-paced battle I was forced into peaking around the corner of the doorway and slowly chipping away at the spider masterminds' health. Once the masterminds were dealt with this large and otherwise interesting location felt wasted.

 

Finally, the final encounter was pretty underwhelming and a bit anticlimactic. It seemed like at this point you had run out of steam as the final battle was just a group of pinkies which I dispatched with a few quick rockets, and 1 cyberdemon that was unable to leave his position on the teleporter which allowed me to easily avoid his rockets and hose him down quickly with the plasma gun. It was a very abrupt ending to an otherwise huge map.

 

Overall its not a bad map, and I did enjoy it at times. Its just that the issues mentioned above bogged down the gameplay and made the map feel like a bit of a drag at times. I honestly feel that if the map were half its current size or at least a third smaller I would have enjoyed it drastically more.

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Posted (edited)

@waverider I tend to agree mostly with Count651. I think overall detail is spot on and the map is very pretty to look at, but the map feels way too large and the combat to me felt very bland.

Main Points:

Spoiler
  • Ammo Balance feels way off, a lot of the time the map felt its ammo stores were just huge lumps of big ammo to cover large sections of map. as usually you would find 1 large stockpile and then the rest of the surrounding area felt rather devoid of ammo. I ended the map with WAAAY too much spare ammo for a continuous play (almost full cells). Also it felt like for the later half I was mostly only given rockets and cells. replacing these with some more shells or ammo and forcing the player to use other weapons may make it more challenging/interesting
  • Most of the fights just felt bland. The cyber encounter in the beginning was suprisingly nice and fun, since you couldn't retreat and you had to move around the area to dodge attacks. However most of the fighting felt very static, where usually you'd enter a room filled with baddies and the solution was to find a corner and spray down the hall/room. The only real dynamic fight was that arena at the far end with all the teleporting monsters. this fight felt a ta excessive but not overtly so. I think having more monster closets or traps, with dynamic map elements could make the map feel more alive and dynamic.
  • Map feels too big, its very open and there's a lot to get lost in. Suprisingly key pathing wasn't to hard to follow, but I feel the gap between the blue and red key is way too large, where I often felt "am I even going the right way? I have no clue where or when this will end". The yellow key also felt pointless since it was right next to the door it opened. I think repurposing one of these keys to foll the blue/red gap could help flow by giving the player a better marker/direction on progress. With this said I think areas of the map could easily be removed without sacrificing the map as a whole. It does drag on a bit much.
    • Also 2 scenarios that got a little old/frusturating was arch-viles behind 12 revenants and the one area with the map12 setup of a cyber behind 20 barons. I literally ran right past them and was a non-issue making it kinda pointless
  • This isn't really a critique because I remember you mentioning using a special nodebuilder and needing a patch, but damn without it I could glitch through just about any wall, and monsters were phasing in and out of the map. Kind of annoying and silly, but not a minus since I remember this coming up.
  • See pictures, but the red key requires strafe running to get (could not using a single movement plane). For the general player I think this is not good and should be moved a bit closer so the player can get to it without strafe running.

 

Pictures:

Spoiler

Too much ammo:

 

m11_14.PNG.2d83c18bae0ee56594eeeedcd0b5674b.PNG

Mistextured boxes?

m11_7.PNG.d8e4aad1f8ed4530de9ab36ea7817d5e.PNGm11_8.PNG.c5e99f3f746699b71f97bce81563c0fd.PNG

 

Red key is too far away, had to strafe run to reach it, couldn't using normal run which I think is not good for the average player

m11_11.PNG.46c903cf873511d791eb7cb6f4c94872.PNG

 

This switch is too far away from the lift and doesn't animate, thought it did nothing. Should be next to it.

m11_12.PNG.101c50b9b69f91a9e01d35428a0db469.PNG

 

 

Overall: Detailing is consistently great, but the combat felt a bit bland and the map ran a little long/could give the player a lot more direction or cues to their progress. This could be a lot more enjoyable if the goals and progress were better defined, and there was more dynamic monster elements (closets/traps/turrets/ect.) A good place for this is replace the 2 spiders on the lake with a teleporting army maybe.

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Thanks Viscra; I've decided to update the first post with a list of tracks that haven't been used on any maps yet. If anyone would like to use one of the available MIDI tracks please let me know in this thread and I'll update it accordingly; just keep in mind this is likely to have 32 new songs for each map so once a song is claimed that'll be the end of it.

 

And with that, I think I'll get started on a map contribution for the 23 slot.

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Posted (edited)

Today, I finally bring back to life my map for this project, from the original "collect all x skulls and exit" it became a sort of more classic Cyberdreams inspired map... decided to set it to MAP32, if it's OK with you guys.

More pictures and stuff soon...

 

OnMRn3v.png

 

EDIT: improve map layout, is technically ready for a release! Just have to fix out some little things and it's done!

Edited by Walter confetti

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On 6/1/2019 at 2:16 PM, DerFurer'sFace said:

@DJVCardMaster Ran through Map24 since you asked for some feedback.

Overall a nice map, visually great and succinct for the most part, not many gripes with the map. The current MIDI was also a very good choice. For map24 it wasn't all that challenging but I did die a few times so not a pushover.

  Hide contents
  • Ammo balance feels off, I was really struggling with ammo for the first third (often ending rooms with 0 spare ammo), but about when I got the blue key Ammo seemed overabundant. generally I feel maps should balance it out so its consistent throughout. I'd suggest generally removing a lot of the shotgun boxes past the blue doors
    • Side note but wanted to address specifically, way to many cells. I kinda have grown to like the idea of keeping cell ammo scarce because of how strong the bfg/plasma guns are, saving them only to take down big baddies, clear rooms, or for tight situations. You may feel differently but once I got the plasma gun I was never low on ammo for it and could mow down everything with it for the second half of the map.
  • The caco trap at sector 169 (after the first church area on the way to the blue key) was very tough on ammo (especially if you didn't grab the ssg like I did). I found the bookcase secret after the fight and that secret for what it was felt a bit too generous or necessary for that fight. I'd recommend making the secret only have 2 rocket boxes and the backpack, and either move the other 2 outside the secret in that little arena, or delete one and put one in there, but personally I think one box of rockets would have made the caco fight better and not "i'm going to cram them all in this dooorway and fire 20 shotguns shells until they all die". not huge but I feel would have made it better.
  • Secrets felt fair and I found all 3. They were not overtly hard to find like some maps make them which is nice. However as stated above, the bookcase secret felt too generous, and the early plasma gun came with way too much ammo as I think I had 300 cells until I found the 2nd one not much later. I would change the 2 large packs into 1-2 small packs so it was enough for the big caco fight just after it.
  • Again combat wasn't too challenging, a lot of it was moving through thin hallways. Sections that were good were the 2 caco traps, and the blue key arena had good trickery and monster placement, and the final cyber fight was fair. Maybe adding a bit more of dynamic monster traps in some of the bookcase segments (like the first maze to the courtyard) could give the player more of a thoughtful challenge (maybe some imps, demons, or revs appear as some of the bookcases open up in the maze).
  • Detail is good overall, but some areas feel a bit bare when compared to other sections (specifically I think the church could use some more murals or a ceiling opening would go a long way, as those are present throughout most the map). Minor nitpick but some of the main library areas are a bit too... brown. I think adding a bit more color would help but its up to you as it really isn't terrible at all, but was noticeably a bit drab to me.

Comments:

Pictures:

  Hide contents

Ended the map with plenty of health and ammo. The megasphere wasn't needed for me so just made me supercharged. You could easily tone down ammo across the board and still have a decent selection. I think managing cells would bring the biggest late game impact, and shotgun shells everywhere past the blue key too.

m24_2.PNG.f2c4be5b6b769059b8d1ccd42e026212.PNG

 

Awfully open and basic compared to the rest of the map, a skylight would go a long way and could be enough, or some metal railing around the ceiling edges

m24_1.PNG.33fc170049d14db7fc8e117e3b7984af.PNG

 

 

Overall: decent, pleasant to look at, not ball-busting. Enjoyable overall but some tweaks could make it better.


Thanks for the feedback, and sorry for the late response, I'm currently working on some fixes. 
 

Spoiler

I've just put a sky at the ceiling, and put a lava ceiling on the evil dimension: 

2342343.png.4948516b7b4eca37ca264bce38e8d923.png

 

2342341415.png.f8c202757085855daedbeb15bebf09d9.png

 

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On 6/10/2019 at 5:10 AM, valkiriforce said:

@Seybsnilksz I was wondering if there were any specific maps you wanted to compose a MIDI for? I've still yet to arrange some of the ones I've got, but maybe for starters you could do something for MAP10? The placeholder track it currently has should be a good indicator for what I was going for in that map. If you have any other suggestions or ideas I'd like to hear them.

Alright, I'll see what I can do!

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Here's my map!

 

Spoiler

YsCaq4u.png

b9QDoHO.png

1kd9xJe.png

gaG3FmC.png

 

http://www.mediafire.com/file/bd86ao0nyrd7786/wa-e3ad.wad/file

 

Title: Baphomet's boot-camp

Author: Walter "daimon" Confalonieri

Map: MAP32

Description: A Cyberdreams inspired map, survive to all the test on the boot-camp and you are free to play more Akeldama!

Build time: 3/4 days, including original map layout in... March? April? Eh, quite some time ago.

New music: CHRIS.MID or some name like that, anyway some classic midi from the 90s

 

As always, feedback is highly accepted!

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@Count651 / @DerFurer'sFace: Thanks for the feedback! I agree that this map has gone a bit over the top in some regards - I'll collect all the feedback from this thread and start making some changes to the map soon. I'll also make sure that the updated map will be within the limits of the original vanilla .exe's so that no patch will be needed. That will be the best decision I feel - after all no other maps in Akeldama requires a patch to be played in non-compatible ports.

 

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@Walter confetti I played your MAP32; although I appreciate the quirkiness of a CyberDreams-like map I don't really feel it belongs in this mapset. Not a whole lot to say about it since most of the map is empty outside of avoiding rocket fire from CyberDemons and hitscan fire from a Mastermind in a large area. At the moment I have a map I might re-purpose for the 32 slot, so I don't think we'll be using this map. I do appreciate your taking the time to try and help out though.

 

Another little problem I've been having lately has to do with the MAP03 and MAP04 slots; just playing through the maps from the beginning up to this point I feel as though Doomkid's map gets pretty hectic for such an early slot, and both maps introduce the rocket launcher early on. There's a lot of regular shotgun and chaingun action against mid-tier enemies which slows things down a lot for me. One of the ideas I had was to re-insert the old MAP03 from ZaBigBoss and leave dt_'s map where it is, since the older MAP03 plays much quicker and easier and it could introduce the super shotgun (even though I was hoping we'd hold off from doing so until a little later - I'd like for it to be introduced before the rocket launcher) I would likely move Doomkid's map a little later - maybe even insert it as one of the secret maps. It does feel arena-like in its open layout and could probably play really well with some tougher enemies mixed into it. I'm still having some problems trying to counter the hall of mirrors I get in the bigger areas near the yellow key though, so I'm working on it.

 

Anyway, that's been on my mind for a while now. I don't want to be doing anything behind the scenes without telling anyone else about it. I'd like to be able to get through more maps in less time, since I would like for this megawad to be a little easier to pick up and play without reducing the challenge much (and that includes some of my own maps). Megawads are usually a big commitment to play all the way through, so I think some minor adjustments would make the overall experience more replayable.

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5 minutes ago, valkiriforce said:

@Walter confetti I played your MAP32; although I appreciate the quirkiness of a CyberDreams-like map I don't really feel it belongs in this mapset. Not a whole lot to say about it since most of the map is empty outside of avoiding rocket fire from CyberDemons and hitscan fire from a Mastermind in a large area. At the moment I have a map I might re-purpose for the 32 slot, so I don't think we'll be using this map. I do appreciate your taking the time to try and help out though.

 

Ok, thanks for the feedback and the playing anyway! I'll see what can i do with this map changing out the textures from this project with other...

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Been on holiday for most of June, but I've tried to make some stuff. 

@valkiriforce I tried making something with some inspiration form the placeholder from map 10. It might be a bit short, and I'm not sure if it fits the map, but it might go somewhere else. I can try to lengthen it if someone wants it.

 

Mind the Gap (WIP) 

 

I also made a heavier track that perhaps will fit a more violent hell map. It's still a work in progress, hence the abrupt ending. I'm not sure if the slow semi-generic breakdown close to the end feels video-game-y enough, so I might remove that.

 

This Might Burn (WIP)

 

I will appreciate any feedback, this is my first time making Doom-music after all! :)

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Amazing work on both tracks! Really like what you've done with them. I don't mind using Mind The Gap as it is unless there was something else you wanted to do with it, but if you're not finished with the other track I can wait for it. Sounds like it would fit nicely into the 32 slot.

 

I've been making some good progress on map 23; getting to be a little bigger than I had first thought but hopefully the map really won't take too long to complete.

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Good to hear! If you don't think Mind the Gap is too short then feel free to use it.

 

I'll continue with This Might Burn and maybe try to make a calmer or more ambient track as well.

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Another update on MAP24! some tweaks on ammo balancing and some minor detailing on the chapel room. Still not finished 'till the project is finished, keep the feedback coming!

No need to change the link on the original post, since it's just already updated.

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