Blood vs Shadow Warrior

[Avoozl]

44 minutes ago, TheMightyHeracross said:

while for Blood you might want to wait for Night Dive's rerelease.

Personally I have found BloodGDX fine for the time being.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Zilla approves the voters choice. And sends his regards doomworld. 

[Master O]

4 hours ago, Agent6 said:

 

Holy crap that's amazing, been waiting for this since forever and it's happening after all, through both Nightdive and NukeYKT.

 

Are we collectively dreaming? 

 

NukeYKT is reverse engineered (thanks to Warner Brothers not selling the IP rights for a non-ridiculous price), whereas the Nightdive version is not going to use the Build engine at all, iirc.

[ReaperAA]

7 hours ago, Avoozl said:

I would use 4.3.0 if I were you, either 4.3.1 or 4.3.2 has a save bug crash

 

I heard somewhere that only 4.3.2 onwards has the save game bug and 4.3.1 doesn't have this issue. Though I guess if it doesn't improve much then I should use 4.3.0 (to be on safe side). Thanks for the advice.

[seed]

11 hours ago, Master O said:

NukeYKT is reverse engineered (thanks to Warner Brothers not selling the IP rights for a non-ridiculous price), whereas the Nightdive version is not going to use the Build engine at all, iirc.

 

I know, my point was just that it's a good time for Blood, even if it took over 20yrs to get there.

 

Yeah, BloodEX uses the Kex engine as far as I know.

[Vermil]

Blood is better IMO

[notjimmyboigreez]

blood is better, but both are great.

 

 

[Master O]

https://forums.duke4.net/topic/10456-release-nblood-blood-port-based-on-eduke32/

[ReaperAA]

NBlood is finally here.

[Tony_Pepporoni]

On 1/13/2019 at 2:43 PM, wheresthebeef said:

Blood is the best Build engine game

 

Shadow Warrior is the hardest

 

Duke, SW, and Blood are all good games.

Redneck Rampage is hit or miss.

There's pretty much no other build game you need to worry about.

(Do note I'm only talking about 90's Build engine games. Ion Maiden is its own beast)

i'm guessing you never played blood on extra crispy

[Muusi]

It's unfair to compare Blood to anything since It's so near to perfection. Everyone should play Death Wish right now. Wish the next episode comes quick😩

[[McD] James]

edit: I'm honestly not sure. I'll need a lot more time to carefully think this over.

Edited March 25, 2021 by [McD]James

[ReaperAA]

Well this brings back memories.

[[McD] James]

edit: see above.

Edited March 25, 2021 by [McD]James

[Devalaous]

Since then, weve gotten Raze, the GZDoom of Build, and its coming along quite nicely.

[D4NUK1]

Blood Flesh Supply Hands down, even if i feel Shadow Warrior it's more fair, the bloodbaths that some of the Blood levels have, and the easy to get health trougth kills make the game more aggresive on your use of high tier weapons.

[Major Arlene]

re: bumping, we're in discussions on how best to handle this. For now I'll say avoid bumping very old topics (over a year old). If this further derails it will be locked. 

[seed]

3 hours ago, Devalaous said:

Since then, weve gotten Raze, the GZDoom of Build, and its coming along quite nicely.

 

Also we've finally figured out what was causing the garbage screen corruption a few days ago.

[Taw Tu'lki]

Shadow Warrior

[[McD] James]

This again. I've already finished Blood, but it's too close to call in my mind right now. Shadow Warrior is definitely the more polished, balanced experienced that features better enemy progression and a better arsenal. Blood is buggy, unbalanced, and has unfun underwater combat not helped by the fact that Caleb has the lung capacity of a Chicken McNugget Buddy. And yet despite its flaws, Blood is still one of the most enjoyable FPS games I've ever played through. The humor is a lot more tasteful, and the gore effects are some of the best I've ever seen in a game. I also prefer the horror aesthetics in Blood over Shadow Warrior's parodying of Hong Kong action movies. 

 

I'll vote for Shadow Warrior just to balance things out because I really think Shadow Warrior deserves a lot more respect in general. I prefer Duke 3D over both games, however. 

[Dwimepon]

As far as character goes, I think Caleb's murderous antics and absolutely god-tier voice (Bless you, Weyte) makes him the better protagonist over Lo Wang's honestly kind of dated at best, and downright offensive at worst, antics. I also just love Blood's overall art direction and creativity when it comes to the weapons, it's just so, SO good.

[THEBaratusII]

Both are good games in general, but I only voted for Blood likely due to my multiplayer experiences compared to Shadow Warrior.

 

I've played more Bloodbaths than I did for Wangbangs, and I really wished Shadow Warrior's multiplayer to get more love.

[Serum]

My vote is for blood because not only is its campaign sweet but also... Death Wish. I needn't say more

[roadworx]

On 3/30/2021 at 11:28 AM, Dwimepon said:

As far as character goes, I think Caleb's murderous antics and absolutely god-tier voice (Bless you, Weyte) makes him the better protagonist over Lo Wang's honestly kind of dated at best, and downright offensive at worst, antics. I also just love Blood's overall art direction and creativity when it comes to the weapons, it's just so, SO good.

tbh caleb is probably the best protagonist out of any of the build engine games. duke and lo wang both aged kinda terribly, but caleb has stood the test of time

[Rudolph]

2 hours ago, roadworx said:

tbh caleb is probably the best protagonist out of any of the build engine games. duke and lo wang both aged kinda terribly, but caleb has stood the test of time

Even after Blood II: The Chosen? I have not played it myself, but I hear the game does not do him any favor.

[Jello]

11 hours ago, Rudolph said:

Even after Blood II: The Chosen? I have not played it myself, but I hear the game does not do him any favor.

Caleb was fine in Blood 2, it's the rest of the game that was the problem. Even the game itself wasn't that bad, the arsenal was expansive and fun, the enemies were enjoyable enough to kill. 

 

The major problem was that it was rushed out the door, and full of glitches on release. But Caleb was still enjoyable.

 

"It's Howdy Doody time kiddies, the bad man is here."

 

I don't think the timing of it's release helped either, coming out shortly after Unreal, and shortly before Half-Life. And we need to be honest, Blood was never really a commercial success to begin with. A great game, yes, but it never got close to the heights of Doom or Duke Nukem 3D.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Jello

[[McD] James]

I saw Civvie's video about Blood 2 not too long ago. It looks and sounds like an even worse version of Shogo, and that's saying something. The original LithTech engine was horrendous, but as I understand it improved over time. 

[Jello]

6 hours ago, [McD]James said:

I saw Civvie's video about Blood 2 not too long ago. It looks and sounds like an even worse version of Shogo, and that's saying something. The original LithTech engine was horrendous, but as I understand it improved over time. 

Yeah, they've made quite a few improvements over version 1.0 throughout the years. In fact Monolith is still using a version of Lithtech called Firebird, used on Middle Earth: Shadow of War in 2017.

 

Even by version 2.2 it had made quite a few strides, including being used for the the absolutely fantastic No One Lives Forever. 

 

I think they would've been better off waiting for the engine to be more stable before diving into Blood 2, it's a real shame because I think there was promise in the game; if only they would've spent more time refining it. But they probably needed money so they had to get something out the door. Especially after the disappointing sales of Shogo.

[[McD] James]

57 minutes ago, Jello said:

Yeah, they've made quite a few improvements over version 1.0 throughout the years. In fact Monolith is still using a version of Lithtech called Firebird, used on Middle Earth: Shadow of War in 2017.

 

Even by version 2.2 it had made quite a few strides, including being used for the the absolutely fantastic No One Lives Forever. 

 

I think they would've been better off waiting for the engine to be more stable before diving into Blood 2, it's a real shame because I think there was promise in the game; if only they would've spent more time refining it. But they probably needed money so they had to get something out the door. Especially after the disappointing sales of Shogo.

 

"It bothers us that Blood 2 happened the way it did, but the bottom line is that GT Interactive controlled whether additional work and support got done on Blood 2 or not. This concept is something that eludes most gamers. They think that Monolith could have just gone on and “fixed” Blood 2 if we really wanted to. Not true. I’ll explain why… GT Interactive completely owns the Blood franchise, not us. We were paid by GT to produce Blood 2. We were given 11 months to do it in. GT was our customer. As our customer, they had every right to take the work that we were doing for them, and ship it whenever they felt was the right time. Certainly, there were many factors involved with regard to why Blood 2 got shipped when it did, but all of those factors were based on GT 's needs and direction, not Monolith's. Monolith did not control the ship date (I wish we did!). Monolith did not hold Blood 2 in the air and say to GT, 'We are done! There is nothing more for us to do!' No, all Monolith said to GT was, 'Based on the amount of time we were allocated, and the various events that have occurred during development, here is where we are. If you want us to continue, here is what it will cost. We would encourage you to allow us to continue.' Then, GT shipped Blood 2..."--Jason Hall, July 10, 2000

[Jello]

Never read that before, good to know. I know Monolith kind of considered Blood to be their baby, so I was surprised that Blood 2 came out still pink on the inside. Sorry, had to make the joke.

 

It makes more sense that it was GT that pushed it out the door. Although if they would've given Monolith more time, and released it after the Half-Life hype had died down a bit, it may have been more successful. But hindsight is 20/20.

 

As an aside, this thread did inspire me to look and see if there were any new Blood 2 stability patches, and I found this one released in November of last year: https://www.moddb.com/mods/blood-2-fixed-edition/downloads/fix-133. 

 

So far it seems to work, I can start the game on Windows 10 without it crashing like it used to, and the music actually plays now. I'm using it with the GOG version, I can't confirm if it works with the original CD release. But nobody bought that anyway. Before this the only patch I found that worked on 7 and 10 also drastically changed the difficulty, and added almost endless Cabalco troops.

 

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Jello