Looking forward to Community Chest Megawad?

[Use]

Uhg, that ugly sky texture is still in there for maps21-32. It looks like baby vomit. ;P

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Cadman said:

Isn't map 18 supposed to be changed to "Sudden Death"? I remember receiving the graphic but I did not have time to get it in there, can we get the cwlivs changed please Mr. graphics man. Thanks!

Cadman - Member TeamTNT

p.s. (That's you Ultimate Doomer!) :)

Done and sent to you last night, after I downloaded it and checked it myself (I was away when that graphic was changed and I forgot to update my copy when I got back). Deh, bex and mapinfo have been changed as well.

Archvile46 said:

BTW, does anyone know my level's name? I can't remember if I posted anything or not, so there may not be a CWILV graphic for it.

Blood Demesne.

[magikal]

Use3D said:

Uhg, that ugly sky texture is still in there for maps21-32. It looks like baby vomit. ;P

Agreed, that sky is awful.
Yes, beautiful work Rex. I've had a quick run through but I'm certainly gonna enjoy recording it.:)
UD, Map29 is called Citadel at the Edge of Eternity....not Citadel on...
"Magikal new map 29 is also nothing short of amazing." Thanks Searcher.

[Torn]

magikal said:

Agreed, that sky is awful.
Yes, beautiful work Rex. I've had a quick run through but I'm certainly gonna enjoy recording it.:)
UD, Map29 is called Citadel at the Edge of Eternity....not Citadel on...
"Magikal new map 29 is also nothing short of amazing." Thanks Searcher.

heh, your map lags alot on my system, :/.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

magikal said:

UD, Map29 is called Citadel at the Edge of Eternity....not Citadel on...

Oops. It's fixed now and I've just sent the stuff to Cadman again. That map looks pretty impressive, especially the spiral staircase! (it slows my duron 700 right down though)

[Fletcher`]

Can I make a new sky then. :)



:)

[Kid Airbag]

Searcher said:

Are any of the maps new, other than 29 and 18?

Mine might be, I'm not sure if it was in a previous beta or not.

[magikal]

ravage said:

Can I make a new sky then.

I would hope so, that looks a lot more interesting.:)
Sorry about the slowdown, it plays on my XP2000/GeForce2/PrBoom/ 800x600 no problem and that's not a particularly fast machine nowadays, oh well. PrBoom seems the quickest port, try lower res, not so nice but it helps.

[Searcher]

Archvile46 said:

Mine might be, I'm not sure if it was in a previous beta or not.

I am pretty sure yours was in Beta 5. I remember it was tough as nails from a pistol start. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Kid Airbag]

Searcher said:

I am pretty sure yours was in Beta 5. I remember it was tough as nails from a pistol start. Correct me if I am wrong.

You may be right, although I think I may have just sent you the individual level. But yeah, my level is very hard from a pistol start.

[Torn]

am I allowed to make my map small?. (god damn, I am slow :( )

[Use]

Map29 is crazy huge. No lag here, but that has to be one of the most expansive levels I've ever played.

Edit: Any new players to map12? ;D

[Cadman]

I was thinking about doing a complete zennode run on all the maps I have so far, whatcha think? I don't have to, but with some of the maps running a little slow in some cases maybe we could give it a shot and see what happens. It's pretty easy, I set up a batch file and run the maps. It may not make a difference, but who knows.


Cadman - Member TeamTNT

[magikal]

Torn said:

am I allowed to make my map small?. (god damn, I am slow :( )

Yes, do it! Map30's real small but nice.
Cadman, you could run Zennode but I doubt it would make any difference, but there's only one way to find out.
RMB maybe a better option.

[Cadman]

Okay, a couple of blurbs here guys.

Map 29 is slow at times, just wondering Magikal, how did you build it? What node builder?

I ran DeepBSP on the thing and it gives me this...

Total Segments = 33683! Exceeds max by 916!! Not playable!

I then ran Zennode on it and it built it but when I created another build the level wouldn't load! It just wouldn't load...interesting.

Other notes of interest here...

*Map5 has only 1 player start and no DM starts.

*Map14 has no DM starts.

*Map18 has 1 player start and no DM starts.

*Map25 has no DM starts.

Remember, you must have all 4 player starts and at least 4 DM starts.

I'm gonna look at Map29 again and run it separately.


Cadman - Member TeamTNT

[magikal]

I used DeepBSP. It gives me 32762segs, 5 under the limit, no problem.
Strange that you should get 33683?

[Cadman]

Allright Magikal...

I still get 33683 in total Segments! That's after I rebuilt it with DeepBSP again....hmmmmm.

When I ran Zennode again, I couldn't get the level to play. It gave me this prompt...

"P_GroupLines: Subsector a part of no Sector!"

This is using PrBoom, the latest version.

I then tried an experiment, I ran DeepBSP and then used Zennode to setup the reject. I turned off the blockmap and node build options in Zennode and just used the reject builder. I was able to get the map to run at about the same speed as the original map you submitted. With so many monsters getting you in their sights no wonder it bogs down at times in those big open areas. I run the following machine...

P3 700mhz
768 megs of SDram
GeForce2 Ultra with 64 megs of DDR memory

Oh well, it's probably the best we can do, huge map with huge open areas! Wow!


Cadman - Member TeamTNT

[Searcher]

Archvile46 said:

You may be right, although I think I may have just sent you the individual level. But yeah, my level is very hard from a pistol start.

Gosh thats right, you did send me the level, and I played it outside of the beta. I really enjoyed it. Damn fine looking map. Tough one from a pistol start.

[Kid Airbag]

I ran through the entire set earlier today, and I must say, it is looking pretty good! With the eclectic styles because of the various authors involved, I really got the feel of a new Memento Mori, which is superb. I especially like maps 2 and 12.

[Torn]

hmm... there is tutti frutti error on map09 at start with these small uac logos

[magikal]

Cadman said:

I run the following machine...

P3 700mhz
768 megs of SDram
GeForce2 Ultra with 64 megs of DDR memory

There's your problem, P3 700mhz, slow by today's standards. I have the same GF2, 512mb memory but a xp2000, not a hint of slowdown.
I'll try running it through RMB later today.

[Fletcher`]

magikal said:

There's your problem, P3 700mhz, slow by today's standards. I have the same GF2, 512mb memory but a xp2000, not a hint of slowdown.
I'll try running it through RMB later today.

That still faster than mine.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Cadman said:

I was thinking about doing a complete zennode run on all the maps I have so far, whatcha think? I don't have to, but with some of the maps running a little slow in some cases maybe we could give it a shot and see what happens. It's pretty easy, I set up a batch file and run the maps. It may not make a difference, but who knows.

It would be a good idea (it would save a small amount of space too), but isn't there some sort of problem with vanilla 3D bridges in zennode-built maps (in some ports, at least).

I'll go and run it on my maps and see what happens.

Torn said:

am I allowed to make my map small?. (god damn, I am slow :( )

Of course you can. My map 01 is small, and so are maps 14 and 30.

[Kaiser]

actually, my map 26 now works perfectly under Prboom, and hardly any hom at all in GL Legacy. well...except for the bridges like always.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Cadman said:

I was thinking about doing a complete zennode run on all the maps I have so far, whatcha think? I don't have to, but with some of the maps running a little slow in some cases maybe we could give it a shot and see what happens. It's pretty easy, I set up a batch file and run the maps. It may not make a difference, but who knows.

Right, I ran zennode on both my maps and tested them in Boom and ZDoom - and ran into trouble. When I go across a 3D bridge, I fell down in the middle of them. Explanation:

If you're familiar with the vanilla mechanism, you'll know there are some linedefs among the crossbeams in the bridge (but not connected to them) that refer to a dummy sector in the void. In my maps (and probably most other people's too) these linedefs form a rectangle that runs close to the edges of the bridge. Normally, the gap between the linedefs (32 units) is small enough to cross without falling down, but for some reason Zennode changes that so you fall down that gap.

The only way to fix that would be to alter each individual bridge so there are more linedefs with a smaller gap between them (as you can still walk on the linedefs) - but that's quite a few maps with quite a few bridges (and in one case, a ton of bridges!). Which means a lot of work would be needed from the authors of those maps to make a zennode run viable, so it probably isn't on.

[Cadman]

Okay, here's the deal, Zennode may give us some issues with the 3-D bridges and maybe other issues. Also, the .deh & bex patches don't work with Boom if I insert them as a lump into the pwad. ZDoom does support this along with Legacy. (Thanks Ultimate) So here's what I'm going to do...

*I'm going to DeepBSP all the maps.

*I'm going to use Zennode to build the reject only!

*I'm going to then create a new build with the .deh & .bex files included in the zip.

*You must add the .deh and .bex files from the command line.

*Remember to either use Boom or PrBoom to play these maps.

*I will then upload the new build to Volteface this evening.

Notes of interest, Zennode hoses map 29 because of the bridges. Also the map would run smoother if there wasn't 300 miles between walls with nothing in between. Boom or not, and even with a good reject included, the LOS calculations are enormous. Thanks alot Magikal! Muhahahahahahahahahaha!


Cadman - Member TeamTNT

[ReX]

Cadman said:

I was thinking about doing a complete zennode run on all the maps I have so far, whatcha think?

As Ultimate DooMer has pointed out, using zennode on a map with 3D bridges meant for vanilla DooM causes the player to fall into a "hole" while crossing the bridge, and get stuck.

I discovered this problem when I tried my Map18 using GL Legacy, and having a node build using WadAuthor's internal node-builder. There is no problem when using ZDooM and jDooM (although jDooM creates a HOM after the player has crossed the bridge). I figured zennode would fix it. Unfortunately, it then created the same problem in ZDooM. Therefore, I would suggest not using zennode on Map18.

Cadman said:

*Map18 has 1 player start and no DM starts....

Remember, you must have all 4 player starts and at least 4 DM starts.

I'll be happy to put in the 4 player starts, but I figured that the map was too big for DM, so I didn't put DM starts in. Let me know if you would still like me to put them in.

[The Ultimate DooMer]

ReX said:

Therefore, I would suggest not using zennode on Map18.

This will probably apply to the other maps with bridges (01, 06, 20, 26, 29) as well.

[Volte]

All maps should have DM starts, regardless of size. Otherwise attempting
to load the level will crash the game (in vanilla).

[The Ultimate DooMer]

Not true. (I never put DM starts in my maps and the vanilla ones work fine) I think it crashes if you're in DM mode and there's no starts, but not in SP mode.