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Mk7_Centipede

Rebranding Doom

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I feel the guns and enemies in DOOM could be given an easy once over to alleviate common complaints.

 

Like the SSG and Shotgun are misbalanced, as is the Pistol and Chaingun. I have a few simple ideas here which I think are novel.

 

It would be cool to get feedback. It would also be cool to point out gameplay grievances I may have missed.

 

So, right off the bat, I think an AR starting gun would preferable. It could have a 3 round burst, better accuracy, and lower DPS than the chaingun. The Zombieman could drop his rifle, then, and not a clip. And in Doom 64 they buffed the guy with a 3 round burst, so full circle.

 

Zombieman and Shotgunguy should both have health raised to Imp or Chaingunner levels. And to go along with the Pistol buff, the Shotgun should fire half as many pellets as SSG, imo.

 

The Imp and Demon should always have fast on. And the Imp might warrant a slight health bump.// nah: give the demon a short range flame spit, the imp a charged fireball.

 

Cacodemon- everyone's favorite demon- should deal splash damage with its attack. I like fighting this guy but he is rarely more than a meatshield.

 

Barons and Knights should be more than Giant Imps. A 3way or 5way fireball, spread horizontally like some gun from Contra, would remedy this I think. But I am open for other suggestions on how to make this guy more interesting.// nah, give them teleports; maybe the Knight a teleport-behind-ya like in Minecraft.

 

Wouldn't it be cool if the revenant had a SSG? I think he should carry some sort of gun to go with homing rockets. As the main character of Doom, the Revenant deserves more firepower.

 

The Pain Elemental is pretty ridiculous with fast on because he does one thing only. He is quite annoying and generally thought of as unfun. Giving this guy a projectile would alleviate that and make this guy fun.

 

No enemy has a BFG attack. The mastermind is dumb but the final boss, so giving her the almighty BFG attack would spice up gameplay with her. Hitscan or Nuke?

 

Mancubus could probably be done more like the Cyber Mancubus from 2016. His projectiles had an arc, but boiled the ground for a few seconds. I think he would be more imposing as such.

 

I dunno. How would you fine tune Doom?

Edited by Mk7_Centipede

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I like the Doom guns and enemies the way they are and the challenge of trying to make the game (more) interesting with the '94 parameters.

 

But it sounds like you're well on your way to a partial conversion Doom project. People have done this kind of thing, and that's great, but if you're talking about establishing a new standard in the form of a mod or something, I don't see that happening. A fun mapset with these and other changes? Go for it! Personally, I tend to receive these changes better when they are more obvious. For example, I would not like what looks exactly like an imp suddenly having more health. But a demon with a different sprite that's twice as fast - that I'm okay with.

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I find that Brutal Doom makes many of these changes, e.g. faster imps and demons, AR start + weapon balancing changes, Baron fireball spreads, etc. to mixed effect and reaction from the community. I like it but I don't think it should be a new standard in the least. Revenants are already beasts up-close with their melee, so adding a shotgun attack at a short distance would be lethally redundant, like following a glass of hemlock with a Drano chaser. Just my two cents lol

 

For the love of God, keep the BFG out of the demons' hands!

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I agree that the cacodemon should be more than just bullet sponges, them having less health and moving faster or firing more fireballs w/ splash would be interesting. I don't think anything else is a good idea, i think the game is really well balanced as it is. Quake has shit balancing imo, the combat is not nearly as satisfactory and fun as doom's.

 

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pain elemental should spit its lost soul as missiles. i.e. they should just fly out of its mouth straight, and explode on touch. yes, this is quite similar to all other projectile attacks, but at least it will look fun. and i think it is way better than just spamming with normal lost souls.

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I recall someone ("revility", I think) created a Pain Elemental mod for Doom 3 which did exactly what you suggest.

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1 hour ago, ketmar said:

pain elemental should spit its lost soul as missiles. i.e. they should just fly out of its mouth straight, and explode on touch. yes, this is quite similar to all other projectile attacks, but at least it will look fun. and i think it is way better than just spamming with normal lost souls.

But that would make it a low priority target and an infighting liability for the baddies. Also, one less reason to use the Chaingun.

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I say it should literally shoot lost souls like a spawner where if they don't hit anything organic they don't explode, then it runs the risk of several of them floating about.

 

Or have lost souls be homing which would essentially play the role of the classic Revenant but it can fly.

Edited by Chezza

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3 hours ago, VGA said:

But that would make it a low priority target and an infighting liability for the baddies. Also, one less reason to use the Chaingun.

dunno, i really hate lost soul spam. maybe it should release one of, say, 3-5 souls as normal, and other as exploding projectiles. this way it will still annoy player, but not as much.

 

also, "lost soul projectile" is still lost soul, so other monsters will try to retaliate it, not PE. that is, the mechanics is still the same (hurt PE, and it will spam you with its attack, but monsters will not realise where all those exploding lost souls came from).

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13 hours ago, Mk7_Centipede said:

How would you fine tune Doom?

Like this:

Quote

1a. Two Fists that Punches Enemies and Shoot Imp's Fireballs at the Same Time.

1b. A Chainsaw that Cuts Enemies and Shoot Cacodemon's Fireballs at the Same Time.
2. Two Pistols that Shoot Bullets and Baron's Fireballs at the Same time.
3a. A Shotgun that Shoots Shells and Railgun at the Same Time.
3b. A Super Shotgun that Shoots Shells and Blue Plasma at the Same Time.
4. A Chaingun that Shoots Bullets and Arachnotron's Plasma at the Same time.
5. A Rocket Launcher Shoots Rockets, that explode into the Spread of Revenant's Missles.
6. A Plasma Launcher shoots Blue Plasma, that Bounces off the Wall 5x.
7. The BFG 9000 that Shoots the BFG Ball, that explodes into the Small Spread of Mancubus' Fireballs, that Bounces off the wall once, that explodes into the Small Spread of Lost Souls, that shoot Blue Plasma around them then explodes into the Small Spread of Arachnotron's Plasma, that bounces off the walls twice, that explodes into the Small Spread of Baron's Fireballs, that Bounces off the wall 3x, that explodes into the Small Spread of Cacodemon's Fireballs, that bounces off the Walls 4x, that Explodes into the Small Spread of Archvile's Flames, that explodes into the Super Large Spread of Imp's Fireballs. Kinda like a Firework Display.

 

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Revility's Doom 3 Pain Elementals' lost souls were homing if I remember rightly.  It worked pretty well with the Doom 3 bestiary, it would be interesting to see if it works with the Doom 1/2 bestiary but of course Doom 3 is a rather different game.

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7 hours ago, Grazza said:

1a. Two Fists that Punches Enemies and Shoot Imp's Fireballs at the Same Time.

1b. A Chainsaw that Cuts Enemies and Shoot Cacodemon's Fireballs at the Same Time.
2. Two Pistols that Shoot Bullets and Baron's Fireballs at the Same time.
3a. A Shotgun that Shoots Shells and Railgun at the Same Time.
3b. A Super Shotgun that Shoots Shells and Blue Plasma at the Same Time.
4. A Chaingun that Shoots Bullets and Arachnotron's Plasma at the Same time.
5. A Rocket Launcher Shoots Rockets, that explode into the Spread of Revenant's Missles.
6. A Plasma Launcher shoots Blue Plasma, that Bounces off the Wall 5x.
7. The BFG 9000 that Shoots the BFG Ball, that explodes into the Small Spread of Mancubus' Fireballs, that Bounces off the wall once, that explodes into the Small Spread of Lost Souls, that shoot Blue Plasma around them then explodes into the Small Spread of Arachnotron's Plasma, that bounces off the walls twice, that explodes into the Small Spread of Baron's Fireballs, that Bounces off the wall 3x, that explodes into the Small Spread of Cacodemon's Fireballs, that bounces off the Walls 4x, that Explodes into the Small Spread of Archvile's Flames, that explodes into the Super Large Spread of Imp's Fireballs. Kinda like a Firework Display.

Learn DECORATE, if you don't already know it, and make this happen.  As you describe it, it won't need any new sprites or sounds, just code.

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Well if you pay attention to Grazza's post, it has a semi-hidden link to an archived troll thread where this ridiculous list first appeared. So he posted an esoteric DW troll-copypasta! Nice!  :D

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