Need Tips for Outdoor Area Detailing

[t3hPoundcake]

I've restricted myself to mostly indoor areas in my maps, because I can't get the right look or feel for outdoor areas. I'm just wondering if anyone has any go to tips or tricks they use to sort of get that outdoor area looking a bit more impressive, making the layout better so it doesn't just become a wide open arena of circle strafing, etc.

 

The things I do understand are texture transitions, platforming, and cave to open area transitions.

 

What I struggle with in particular is the "outline" of the outdoor area, I always end up with just a straight wall around the entire area and it looks sort of flat and "too two dimensional" if that makes sense. Here is a screenshot to show what I mean about that.

 

https://imgur.com/a/WpEyEYB

 

So any tips are appreciated!

[Bauul]

14 minutes ago, 4everDoomed said:

Speaking of outdoor areas: 

 

How do you create buildings/structures with a lower ceiling than the sky? I'm using DB2 in UDMF and I remember a tutorial from "Melon" in which he/she stated that it wouldn't be possible unless you map with a 3D-"enhancement". I can't get it done with the Doombuilder, tried out different ways. Is that really a problem or is there some trick I didn't know of yet? 

 

Melon was right, you can't have a "floating" ceiling that attaches directly onto a sky-sector that you can see through.  Aside from not being technically possible, it would look super strange having an infinitely thin ceiling like that.

 

If you give the sector the Sky as a ceiling and lower it, it will show up as see-through, but that doesn't give you a solid looking ceiling like you're after.

 

You need to use a 3D floor to create a floating box that acts as the ceiling to your sector.  They're easy to do: give the sector you want to have a ceiling a tag.  Then create a square room off in the void somewhere where the floor of the room is equal in height to the bottom of your desired ceiling, and the ceiling of the room is equal in height to the top of your desired ceiling.  Select one of the walls of this new room (a 'control sector') and give it the action 160, and select the tag of sector you want it to appear in.  Voila, a ceiling!

 

Incidentally, if you're mapping in UDMF, you want to upgrade from DB2 to GZDB_BF, a much more advanced version and can actually use all of UDMF's features.

[Kappes Buur]

Break up straight lines with lots a vertices and then use the Randomize Mode of GZDB/GZDBBF.

 

 

and use lots of slopes and 3D sectors.

[elend]

Also, I found this post by @Tango to be immensely helpful!

[4everDoomed]

Speaking of outdoor areas: 

 

How do you create buildings/structures with a lower ceiling than the sky? I'm using DB2 in UDMF and I remember a tutorial from "Melon" in which he/she stated that it wouldn't be possible unless you map with a 3D-"enhancement". I can't get it done with the Doombuilder, tried out different ways. Is that really a problem or is there some trick I didn't know of yet? 

 

 

[EarthQuake]

A sky paradox works best in situations where the walls behind it are lowered. When using them out in the open like that, you have to take into account where the player is able to stand. Those marble vine walls look really high to begin with, so I'd suggest lowering them/turning them into actual platforms with sky visible behind them.

 

I can't really tell how that's made from the screenshots (are you rereferencing sectors?). Normally you have a thin border of sky around the structure and you can tweak the height of that sector to get the effect just right.

[4everDoomed]

2 hours ago, Bauul said:

 

......

You need to use a 3D floor to create a floating box that acts as the ceiling to your sector.  They're easy to do: give the sector you want to have a ceiling a tag.  Then create a square room off in the void somewhere where the floor of the room is equal in height to the bottom of your desired ceiling, and the ceiling of the room is equal in height to the top of your desired ceiling.  Select one of the walls of this new room (a 'control sector') and give it the action 160, and select the tag of sector you want it to appear in.  Voila, a ceiling!

 

Incidentally, if you're mapping in UDMF, you want to upgrade from DB2 to GZDB_BF, a much more advanced version and can actually use all of UDMF's features.

 

Thank you very much, Bauul !! Very well explained, took me a while to figure it out but I did it. Thanks also for your hint about GZDB BF, I immediately tried it out as well. I can't believe I plagued myself with that damn old thing all the time, LOL. 

 

 

23 minutes ago, EarthQuake said:

A sky paradox works best in situations where the walls behind it are lowered. When using them out in the open like that, you have to take into account where the player is able to stand. Those marble vine walls look really high to begin with, so I'd suggest lowering them/turning them into actual platforms with sky visible behind them.

 

I can't really tell how that's made from the screenshots (are you rereferencing sectors?). Normally you have a thin border of sky around the structure and you can tweak the height of that sector to get the effect just right.

 

That area is still a rough sketch. I'll change the vine textures into sth. different, they aren't supposed to be "rock formations". I left them as as a default texture for the moment, still better than those ugly exclamation marks. That map is the very first map I ever did. I want to develop it into the boss level because I got carried away back then and already placed the entire roster including two Cyberdemons which have to be wasted to get access to a key as a "reward". 

So I thought, naaahhh that can't be the opener for an episode- it's a bit stiff, haha...