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TollyCastle

Tantum Mortuus Est - Dead simple Community project.

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Welcome to Tantum Mortuus Est!

 

The goal of this community project is to make a megawad entirely out of levels based off of the formula for an iconic DOOM II level: MAP07, Dead Simple while also putting to use ukiro's wonderful OTEX textures.

 

The rules are simple:

  • Have the level either an arena or mainly an arena.
  • Use DOOM2.wad as an iwad.
  • Use UDMF format.
  • Have the level progression based around exterminating monsters (using scripting because no 666/667 for non map07s) like in the original MAP07.
  • Stick to OTEX textures. (not really dead simple related but otex is great)

 

Required resource wad: 

 

 

This wad will be split into 3 chapters:

  1. A techbase chapter. 01-11
  2. A medieval chapter. 12-20
  3. A hell chapter. 20-30

 

There will also be secret levels, with any theme you want to use.

 

Maps:

  1. empty
  2. empty
  3. empty
  4. empty
  5. empty
  6. empty
  7. empty
  8. empty
  9. empty
  10. empty
  11. empty
  12. empty
  13. empty
  14. empty
  15. empty
  16. empty
  17. empty
  18. empty
  19. empty
  20. empty
  21. empty
  22. empty
  23. empty
  24. empty
  25. empty
  26. empty
  27. empty
  28. empty
  29. empty
  30. empty
  31. empty
  32. empty

 

(edit) You are also encouraged to use the monster killing based progression creatively and you're not just required to use mancs/babyspiders.

(editagain) Made it so you have to use UDMF due to MAPINFO being able to force non map07 levels to have map07special.

Edited by TollyCastle

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I don't wanna sound rude, but what exactly is the appeal in 32 dead simple maps? It's a box arena that was fine as a gimmick map one time but then people ran with it and made a ton of boring tributes. There's not enough in the map's formula to make an interesting 32 maps.

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The plan is for everyone to make their own spin on the concept.
Not every map will be a brown concrete square. :þ

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Forgive me for being dumb but isn't the 666/667 tag a map07 only thing? like, hard-coded into map07 specifically?

I haven't exactly tried these tags on other map slots but I've also never seen them applied elsewhere.

 

If we can make use of them for something like what skillsaw did in Valiant's Map07, then this can be way more interesting. Otherwise... eh.

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If we can make use of them for something like what skillsaw did in Valiant's Map07, then this can be way more interesting. Otherwise... eh.

 

I have two issues with that: why not just make an interesting use of the tags in another mapset or a solo map if at all? Disregarding that this project would require ZDoom solely for tag support, most people are not going to make a Valiant style interesting map anyway when they could just make an arena.

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Just now, Marcaek said:

 

 

 

I have two issues with that: why not just make an interesting use of the tags in another mapset or a solo map if at all? Disregarding that this project would require ZDoom solely for tag support, most people are not going to make a Valiant style interesting map anyway when they could just make an arena.

Which is why I asked - The rules specify Boom format. I don't know if Boom format supports 666/667 tags outside map07, I assume it doesn't.

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6 minutes ago, Terminus said:

Which is why I asked - The rules specify Boom format. I don't know if Boom format supports 666/667 tags outside map07, I assume it doesn't.

The workaround for this is a dehacked patch that gives all monsters KeenDie actions, which opens doors tagged with 666 when all monsters of that type die, since for whatever reason Commander Keen behavior isn't hardcoded like the other special actions.

 

edit: I've verified that KeenDie is applied on a thing-by-thing basis. You can put KeenDie on as many monsters as you like, but as soon as all monsters of one type die, KeenDie will activate.

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8 minutes ago, Marcaek said:

Keendie does not handle tag 667

correct but basic boom scripting should remedy that

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2 hours ago, TollyCastle said:
  • Have the level either an arena or mainly an arena.

 

Would suggest encouraging brevity and openness but not necessarily the arena format. Valiant map07 comes to mind: could hardly be called an 'arena', but the main playspace is open and compact enough for the similarity to the original to register. 

 

2 hours ago, TollyCastle said:
  • A techbase chapter. 01-11
  • A medieval chapter. 12-20
  • A hell chapter. 20-30

 

Limiting oneself to three general themes, with two of those being cogs in the fairly old hat 'techbase -> hell' progression, is uninspired, and fails to use otex to its potential. otex can support at least five chapters, and more imaginative ones. 

 

2 hours ago, TollyCastle said:

(edit) You are also encouraged to use the tag based progression creatively and you're not just required to use mancs/babyspiders.

 

 

Worth emphasizing in bold. Even half manc/tron maps over 32 maps would grow old fast. Encourage a wider selection of 'home monster' pairs, and you might be able to get more mileage out of the concept.

 

Additionally, there is a lot to be said for cutting the intended size of the set in half as a an alternative way of addressing those issues. Not everything needs to be a full megawad. 

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Regarding KeenDie, that only grants a single on-death action. MAP07 has two, and it's totally out of the spirit of the project to do a rough emulation of MAP07-ish effects with voodoo scripting anyway.

 

I'd suggest bumping the compat-level to Eternity/GZDoom and use MAPINFO to enable the MAP07 specials for every level. That's the path of least resistance (and least-compromise) by far.

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2 hours ago, Marcaek said:

I don't wanna sound rude, but what exactly is the appeal in 32 dead simple maps? It's a box arena that was fine as a gimmick map one time but then people ran with it and made a ton of boring tributes. There's not enough in the map's formula to make an interesting 32 maps.

 

https://www.doomworld.com/forum/topic/102244-iconography-the-obligatory-icon-of-sin-community-project/ says hi.

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Same response goes to them. The Icon of sin is a lame boss concept, but at least the Icon itself can be worked into an interesting map if the map isn't solely built around it, whereas Dead Simple is all about the tags and arena style which means it's going to be the same predictable formula almost every time.

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On 2/10/2019 at 7:42 PM, Xaser said:

Regarding KeenDie, that only grants a single on-death action.

Actually it can activate multiple times, so long as you close the tag 666 doors.

 

Example:

 

edit: while I personally think the initial premise of the wad is a little silly, this project could still be a pretty good exercise in boom scripting and would be fun. assuming the project doesn't die, i'll consider throwing something together in a month or so, ideally e2m2 themed since I also think having set themes is pretty foolish as well. if the project stays alive but you don't get rid of the themes, I guess i'll take map31.

Edited by bonnie

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7 hours ago, Terminus said:

Which is why I asked - The rules specify Boom format. I don't know if Boom format supports 666/667 tags outside map07, I assume it doesn't.

Actually yes, it uses it. But in the MAP32 way (door opens when commander keen dolls been killed) afaik, I used this trick in one map I made long ago... But for dead simple style, is only for MAP07

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I have changed it to have to be in UDMF format so that you can use scripting or mapinfo to get past vanilla's restricting map07special exclusivity.

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1 hour ago, TollyCastle said:

I have changed it to have to be in UDMF format so that you can use scripting or mapinfo to get past vanilla's restricting map07special exclusivity.

You need to specify source ports, UDMF does not imply any sort of scripting or map info standard. 

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7 hours ago, Edward850 said:

You need to specify source ports, UDMF does not imply any sort of scripting or map info standard. 

Please don't make posts like this. It's obvious that the OP is trying to refer to GZDoom+UDMF, and if you'd rather they be explicit about it, please say how to fix the issue instead of dropping a post that doesn't provide enough information to correct the mistake. You're only confusing the heck out of people by doing this sort of thing, which is a shame since you're a super-knowledgeable dude. You know better, dangit. :(

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Tantum Mortuus Est - Dead Community project. (sorry, I had to :))

 

My two cents, though: Dead Simple is one of the least liked D2 maps, imo, so doing a CP based around it is just not a great idea. Even if done well, it'd just be 30 similar arena maps, and thus not a very enjoyable mapset at its core.

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@Li'l devil I disagree... UDMF will alow for some unlimited creativity. Also, people dislike Dead Simple...?

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1 hour ago, Li'l devil said:

Dead Simple is one of the least liked D2 maps

Really? Even more than Grosse or Nirvana? 

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No, but I think it's a pretty weak map... Actually, I don't know what other people think of it, I just assumed. :)

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People don't dislike Dead Simple itself. People dislike the billion clones that have appeared throughout the years. So often it feels like an excuse to be lazy and just make a box arena, as opposed to thinking of an interesting concept to use instead. Rare exceptions exist, but usually you're better off doing something else. 

 

...I think that ends up describing my thoughts on a Dead Simple project in general, heh. 

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On 2/11/2019 at 11:32 AM, Xaser said:

Please don't make posts like this. It's obvious that the OP is trying to refer to GZDoom+UDMF, and if you'd rather they be explicit about it, please say how to fix the issue instead of dropping a post that doesn't provide enough information to correct the mistake. You're only confusing the heck out of people by doing this sort of thing, which is a shame since you're a super-knowledgeable dude. You know better, dangit. :(

I think he's saying that since Eternity now supports UDMF as well. That's why he said to specify ports.

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The idea to use the map 07 tags in interesting ways is a good idea, but I don't think making 32 box arenas is what we need.  Innovative map design is more important than cloning map 07 over and over.  I guess it could still be fun in theory, but making box arenas interesting is going to be very difficult.

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heck friend, switching to UDMF is kind of an extreme reaction to a problem that's already been solved for you. Giving each monster KeenDie on their death animations is as dead simple as changing a monster's stat in dehacked, and I could actually just make a patch for you in about 30 seconds if you want me to. As shown in the video, KeenDie can be activated multiple times per map if you close the doors, which would allow for some fun boom scripting involving an off-map voodoo doll scrolling along a track lined with tag 666 doors.

 

If you don't understand what that means:

Spoiler

Each time a monster type is fully killed, the doors on the track open allowing the voodoo doll to progress, moving over and activating any number of triggers, allowing for a plethora of interesting events on the map with a little creativity, with one trigger of course being to close the other tag 666 doors on the track, stopping the voodoo doll from progressing onto the next track.

 

This would accomplish a number of classic-feeling yet unique kinds of events on maps while still using a highly accessible format, thus not sacrificing a chunk of your potential mapping and playing audience.

 

You would need some slight planning to avoid softlocks, but then again Dead Simple also has a softlock, so you could say it's just adding authenticity c:

 

The point is that so far, I'm the only person who has actually directly expressed interest in making a map for this (and I'm still interested if it reverts to boom format), but rebranding this to be more about cool dead simple-esque map effects and teaching mappers how to do some basic boom scripting and stuff could breathe a ton of life into what is otherwise a pretty unappealing project for most people. I'd also strongly recommend getting the ball rolling with at least a demo map to demonstrate what kind of things you could expect from a refreshing take on Dead Simple. You're not gonna get 32 maps, but you could very well get away with at least an episode, friend.

 

p.s. i could PM you some ideas for potential things to put in a demo map if you want

Edited by bonnie

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I'd recommend the OP to make at least a few good maps for this project themself to prove that this idea is interesting, otherwise, I'm afraid, this will remain "empty empty empty empty..."

And remember that people here don't usually look forward to community projects made by the new members because there's just no confidence that these will go well.

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