CyberDreams Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, seed said: Flying Wild Hog proved such games can be modernized if you know what to take from them and bring some cool ideas in the process, just look at what they did with Shadow Warrior. Maybe they could've handled new Duke games too, as Gearbox proved repeatedly they don't really know how to pull that off. This is true i suppose. I've only played the first remake of Shadow Warrior (it was free on Xbox Live "Games with Gold" and it wasn't actually too hard with a controller imo). It was a decent modernization of Shadow Warrior. Now as for the second one i heard that it has randomly generated level's or something to that extent but i still haven't played it. But i doubt Gearbox would have someone else help them. They'd probably want to do it all by themselves to "make sure that it's the best Duke game ever" or some BS like that. I guess i'd just be happy if Gearbox would just sell the expansions as DLC or something to the World Tour Edition. Or possibly as a separate game, idk. I still don't own them so i'd have to either: A. illegally download them or B. try to find them on ebay/amazon If i'm going to do that then i would want them to be CIB so...yeah that's not going to be cheap. Gearbox would probably have to release another complete version and include everything again and i think that would make the fans happy, but economically there really wouldn't be a point since World Tour isn't that old (not to mention that Eduke32 is an excellent way to play the games anyways). Anyways i went way off track so...sorry about that haha. I just get carried away as i do really like Duke Nukem 3D and obviously Doom as well even though both games play differently. 0 Share this post Link to post
Marcaek Posted February 16, 2019 Quote and knowing how loud and obnoxious John Cena is, Quote I was initially pissed when I found out that he might play Duke Nukem. i think you got a wire crossed somewhere along the line 6 Share this post Link to post
seed Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 44 minutes ago, CyberDreams said: This is true i suppose. I've only played the first remake of Shadow Warrior (it was free on Xbox Live "Games with Gold" and it wasn't actually too hard with a controller imo). It was a decent modernization of Shadow Warrior. Now as for the second one i heard that it has randomly generated level's or something to that extent but i still haven't played it. But i doubt Gearbox would have someone else help them. They'd probably want to do it all by themselves to "make sure that it's the best Duke game ever" or some BS like that. I guess i'd just be happy if Gearbox would just sell the expansions as DLC or something to the World Tour Edition. Or possibly as a separate game, idk. I still don't own them so i'd have to either: A. illegally download them or B. try to find them on ebay/amazon If i'm going to do that then i would want them to be CIB so...yeah that's not going to be cheap. Gearbox would probably have to release another complete version and include everything again and i think that would make the fans happy, but economically there really wouldn't be a point since World Tour isn't that old (not to mention that Eduke32 is an excellent way to play the games anyways). Anyways i went way off track so...sorry about that haha. I just get carried away as i do really like Duke Nukem 3D and obviously Doom as well even though both games play differently. SW2 has some sort of random procedural generation, yes, but not exactly that. In each playthrough there are going to be things that will be different, but not to that extent. True enough, Gearbox wouldn't let someone else help them, precisely for the reason you mentioned, and we all know how that turned out. An overpriced, buggy remaster that only got a single patch and none of the expansions but a new Episode 5 instead. Supposedly, the patch never arrived on consoles. We'll probably never see them again, same for the sidescrollers since "anyone who was interested bought them by now". No shit, Randy literally said that. 1 Share this post Link to post
Avoozl Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) Well this doesn't hurt me honestly. Duke Nukem isn't really a favorite franchise of mine and while I can pick up and enjoy Duke Nukem 3D with two of the three expansions (not Nuclear Winter as that was god awful, I wouldn't even play it during christmas) and custom maps at least for a week yearly, it's not a game I am overly attached to. Strangely I liked Duke Caribbean more than the base game and everything else. Edited February 16, 2019 by Avoozl 1 Share this post Link to post
seed Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, The_SloVinator said: Some franchises deserve to die. Some maybe do, but I definitely wouldn't count Duke among them. The first games were great, and Forever would've been just like them if it wasn't for getting stuck in development hell and changing direction repeatedly without anything solid in mind. Had the rights gone to a different developer that had a vision and knew how to handle it, things would've been much better than they are now. I'm not a huge fan of Duke, but it deserved more than this from my POV. At this point however, we're probably better with nothing I guess. Edited February 16, 2019 by seed 0 Share this post Link to post
The_SloVinator Posted February 16, 2019 7 hours ago, seed said: Some maybe do, but I definitely wouldn't count Duke among them. The first games were great, and Forever would've been just like them if it wasn't for getting stuck in development hell and changing direction repeatedly without anything solid in mind. Had the rights gone to a different developer that had a vision and knew how to handle it, things would've been much better than they are now. I'm not a huge fan of Duke, but it deserved more than this from my POV. At this point however, we're probably better with nothing I guess. Definitely possible that Duke would be in better place if it was a different developer. From what I've heard, the reason for development hell is because 3D Realms kept switching engines, so that they wouldn't be behind the capabilities of the new engines at the time. 0 Share this post Link to post
seed Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 32 minutes ago, The_SloVinator said: Definitely possible that Duke would be in better place if it was a different developer. From what I've heard, the reason for development hell is because 3D Realms kept switching engines, so that they wouldn't be behind the capabilities of the new engines at the time. They also didn't have any clear direction/vision, which I think is usually more important than the tech behind it, and that showed in the final product which was dated on multiple levels by the time it came out. I remember reading that George still didn't have one set it stone by the mid-2000s, how the hell you work on a game for such a long time without even knowing where it's heading, I don't know... 0 Share this post Link to post
BigBoy91 Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) I actually love Cena. His five moves of doom leave a little to be desired, but he's a cool ass dude. Gearbox definitely sucks. Ion Maiden is probably the closest thing we're gonna get to authentic Duke for a long time. That's all I really have to contribute to this discussion. 2 Share this post Link to post
crazyflyingdonut Posted February 16, 2019 3D Realms was worried that their newest game would be running on an engine that was considered to be "outdated". And since gaming engines were getting "outdated" on a regular basis, 3D Realms probably struggled with this. I think they realized that a lot of people didn't buy games like "Blood" simply because of the use of an "outdated" engine. In my opinion, I believe that once the source code to a software is released, that particular software will never be outdated for the rest of eternity. 1 Share this post Link to post
JohnnyTheWolf Posted February 16, 2019 (edited) 19 hours ago, Rifle Infantry said: Duke Nukem is a player vehicle just like Doomguy. He's just got different window dressing: Doomguy is a grizzled silent marine for a sci-fi setting, Duke Nukem is a cocky action hero for an action movie styled setting. I disagree. Unlike the Doomguy, Duke Nukem has always had a voice and a distinct personality. As such, I can very well see him getting fleshed out as a character. Flying Wild Hog already did so with Lo Wang and turning him into a much more likeable and compelling protagonist. Quote Giving him character would be like making Doomguy a complex figure waxing lyrical about the nature of his war on demons as he shotguns them to death. I can see that working just fine in a more lighthearted, tongue-in-cheek take on the franchise, à la Serious Sam 2. Besides, the original Doom already did so with its intermission screens, even showing the Doomguy being pissed at the Demons for killing his pet rabbit Daisy. Edited February 17, 2019 by JohnnyTheWolf 0 Share this post Link to post
Avoozl Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) Lo Wang wasn't intended to be racist, they wanted to merge different references from many popular Asian films but it failed this way and made it seem racist. Honestly I don't like the new version at all, I found him boring and unfunny. 1 Share this post Link to post
JohnnyTheWolf Posted February 17, 2019 When the humour mainly stems from Lo Wang being a bad Japanese caricature, right down to the phony accent, then yes, it is undeniably racism. I mean, even the people involved in the 2013 reboot acknowledged this in interviews as their motivation to redesign the character. 0 Share this post Link to post
[McD] James Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, JohnnyTheWolf said: When the humour mainly stems from Lo Wang being a bad Japanese caricature, right down to the phony accent, then yes, it is undeniably racism. I mean, even the people involved in the 2013 reboot acknowledged this in interviews as their motivation to redesign the character. 1 Lo Wang is of Chinese ethnicity, and his accent doesn't sound remotely Japanese. Also, 'Lo' is a Chinese name, and there's no L sound in the Japanese language. His official bio states that he was born in China, but later moved to Japan where he trained as a ninja. There's no mention on his official bio as to what part of China he was born in, but it was most likely the greater Hong Kong area, as his accent is distinctly Cantonese and not Mandarin. I can tell that Lo Wang's native language is Cantonese because there's a distinct aaa tone I've heard him use that a lot of Cantonese speakers end their words with that doesn't appear in Mandarin (Cantonese has 6 tones in its phonology, whereas Mandarin has 4). Parody Chinese accents are usually Cantonese sounding rather than Mandarin sounding, largely because of the influence of all the martial arts movies that were made in Hong Kong, even though there are far more Mandarin speakers in the world than Cantonese speakers. Edited February 17, 2019 by Ajora 4 Share this post Link to post
JohnnyTheWolf Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) That is good to know, even though it still does not make the character any less of an offensive caricature. Aaanyway, out of morbid curiosity, I am currently playing Duke Nukem Forever, which I got for free as part of a bundle. I have yet to finish the main campaign and I hear the Doctor Who Cloned Me DLC is actually much better, but so far, it is actually worse than I thought. I guess I came in expecting just a mediocre shooter, but most of the time it does not even manage to reach that level and to top it off, I made the mistake of playing on Hard difficulty... To the game's credit, though, the music and the sound design are generally pretty good - minus perhaps Jon St. John's performance as Duke Nukem, who constantly sounds like he does not care about what is going on. I guess that is probably where most of the budget went. 0 Share this post Link to post
crazyflyingdonut Posted February 17, 2019 17 minutes ago, Ajora said: (Cantonese has 6 tones in its phonology, whereas Cantonese has 4) ... okey dokey 0 Share this post Link to post
[McD] James Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) I meant to say that Mandarin has 4 tones, but you already knew that. Edited February 17, 2019 by Ajora 0 Share this post Link to post
geo Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) I'm not surprised with GearBox's owner / CEO being embroiled by two or so scandals that this project will never see the light of day. It's not the 90s anymore. I can imagine a Duke movie doing as well as an Expendibles movie. Plus, I can't imagine John Cena leading another movie that goes to theaters. If it has any hopes to be seen, it would be Ryan Renolds or Chris Pratt playing Duke. But hey who knows... in a world where Ghostbusters are female, Oceans 8 is female... Charlize Therone could play Duke Nukem. As for Cena being in Duke... wrestling likes to throw its own names in as candidates. Chyna and Trish Stratus were supposedly up for Wonder Woman, which would have been disastrous. Triple H was supposed to be in the new Conan remake. Someone edited a photo to make it look like Cena would be Duke. I'd like to speculate fans did it, but AJ Styles has mentioned he's had people edit photos to get people riled up and believe things will happen. Edited February 17, 2019 by geo 1 Share this post Link to post
Hypnotik Posted February 17, 2019 John Cena as Duke Nukem? The papacy will not condone such heresy. 0 Share this post Link to post
seed Posted February 17, 2019 9 hours ago, JohnnyTheWolf said: When the humour mainly stems from Lo Wang being a bad Japanese caricature, right down to the phony accent, then yes, it is undeniably racism. I mean, even the people involved in the 2013 reboot acknowledged this in interviews as their motivation to redesign the character. It would've been interesting to see the end result had they stayed even closer to the original humor, but they did him justice nonetheless. Besides, that kind of humor would absolutely not work in today's political climate, it's not the 90s anymore... 0 Share this post Link to post
JohnnyTheWolf Posted February 17, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, seed said: It would've been interesting to see the end result had they stayed even closer to the original humor, but they did him justice nonetheless. Besides, that kind of humor would absolutely not work in today's political climate, it's not the 90s anymore... Well, then again, the original humour basically boiled down to "Hahaha, Lo Wang speaks broken English" and "Hahaha, Lo Wang is a pervert"... :/ I would further argue that it did not really work back in the 90s either; it is just that most of us did not know any better at the time. I mean, I still like Jon St. John's voice, but there is no denying that most of the jokes in Duke Nukem 3D are just him stealing catchphrases and making lewd jokes; with a worse voice actor or even no voice actor at all like in the first two Duke Nukem games, Duke Nukem may not have been as memorable of a character in the first place. I am playing The Doctor Who Cloned Me right now - which is surprisingly okay so far - and hearing Duke voiced by different voice actors (including Daniel Berretta, Arnold Schwarzenegger's French dubber since the 80s) in different languages just is not the same. 14 hours ago, geo said: But hey who knows... in a world where Ghostbusters are female, Oceans 8 is female... Charlize Therone could play Duke Nukem. Except the female Ghostbusters and Ocean's 8 characters are their own characters, not just gender-swapped versions of the original characters. I could see Charlize Theron playing Bombshell, though, as she already has the experience of playing an action hero with a bionic arm. Edited February 17, 2019 by JohnnyTheWolf 1 Share this post Link to post
seed Posted February 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, JohnnyTheWolf said: Well, then again, the original humour basically boiled down to "Hahaha, Lo Wang speaks broken English" and "Hahaha, Lo Wang is a pervert"... :/ I would further argue that it did not really work back in the 90s either; it is just that most of us did not know any better at the time. I mean, I still like Jon St. John's voice, but there is no denying that most of the jokes in Duke Nukem 3D are just him stealing catchphrases and making lewd jokes; with a worse voice actor or even no voice actor at all like in the first two Duke Nukem games, Duke Nukem may not have been as memorable of a character in the first place. I am playing The Doctor Who Cloned Me right now - which is surprisingly okay so far - and hearing Duke voiced by different voice actors in different languages just is not the same. Yeah, I agree with you, but then all Build engine characters stole catchphrases and lines from various sources. Caleb did that as well. And for sure, without the voice and the lines we probably wouldn't have become fond of the characters and it's simply not the same in other languages. But if we're ever going to see more of them, they definitely have to evolve, FWH understood this with Lo Wang, it just wasn't going to work. They need to be full-fledged characters, not parodies (although you can probably argue the classic counterparts are more than just that). Random, unrelated thought: Broken English sounds epic if you know how to handle it. 2 Share this post Link to post